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View Poll Results: Claymore - Chapter 122 Rating
Perfect 10 3 6.38%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 8 17.02%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 10 21.28%
7 out of 10 : Good 11 23.40%
6 out of 10 : Average 9 19.15%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 6.38%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 4.26%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 2.13%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-12-31, 14:42   Link #201
Asimati
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Originally Posted by Double_friedman View Post
How do you know that Die, the only present-day clayremore that doesn't totally suck aside from the unnnamed twins, was demoted?

About Deneve, she's indeed boring, but I don't think she's that boring. Her special attack is using Undine's sword, I also consider that lame. She's good at regenerating when her wounds aren't that bad, I guess she will survive Hysteria's attacks.
As Fraktur said, Die said it herself. Only problem is that we don't know if she's a nr 8 before or after the demotion.
Personally, I'm going with that Die is insistant with her new rank, ergo current nr 8.

Ripping off your own arm and trow it back on the enemy is badass, even if you can easily regen your arm. That's Deneave's strength. She can lose an arm for a good blow and half her body for a killing blow and it's still a somewhat sane strategy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
Okay, I'm still confused ; firstly, Taby has "taken up the sword"? What the heck does that mean? It sounds like, just now, has she become a warrior and begun to fight - like, only now, has she really become a member of the Ghosts. What's that all about?

Because if so....then Tabitha really was the make-up leader .....then again, Miria yells at Deneve to evade - is she doing that, telling her just to evade, or telling her in the sense of getting her to get everyone else to evade as well -- in other words, telling her to order the others to watch out...
Taking up the sword can refer to two things. First, that she's taken own actions instead of simply following Miria into everything. Second, it's possible that she haven't been sword fighting that much. She and Yuma started out quite a bit weaker than the rest, so it's possibly that she haven't really been swordfighting (she didn't in the Agatha fight), but purely focusing on being the eye. Using the sword, even as a redundant warrior is a sign of motivation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermat View Post
Anyway, I like how Hysteria is giving them such a hard time. It pissed me off how cocky the protagonists were right before fighting Hysteria. Did they really think Anastasia's "Carbon Nanotube Hair Technique" is so great that it would easily give them a win against an AO? So glad Hysteria gave them a reality check quickly enough.
It's probably mostly hot air motivation (and at least Deneave would know it). You can't properly retreat from an AO, so thier best hope would be staying outside and hope that the ZAO will weaken eachother enough for victory and sacrifice every claymore in the vicinity, or going in and hope for the best. Miria's Yoki should also be quite large at this point so they would know that Miria's still alive.

Best odds for them is to defeat or distract Hysteria enough to be able pull out eveyone alive, since Hysteria will prevent any retreats. Then wait and see in the ZAO duel. Yes, that's really crappy odds.

Gooral, if you're correct with that toning down theory (not impossible I agee) I wonder if it's not outside influence. I was thinking about the AF. Galatea is disgusted with the method used on the twins, yet none has really reacted on that the human part of the AF should be the same girls used as claymore trainees, only that the AF is monsters. It does feel a bit like the AF is an old idea, but the lack of claymore aggression frenzy towards thier existance and pointing out their origin at the same time is notable, thus feeling like a later change and it's also unrelated to actually killing a character.

Then again, anyone dying before would not show up vs Hysteria, making this fight more rediculous with every death.
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Old 2011-12-31, 14:51   Link #202
Korinov
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Originally Posted by Ulquihorror View Post
I just found claymore in french and everything is much more sexual than the english version lol.
Clamyore's french translators weren't the only naughty ones, I tell ya
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Old 2011-12-31, 16:50   Link #203
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Ok I like the chapter, things are getting good.

However I'm very surprised at the ghost's arrogance.... Did they really believe that they where going to walk in and be able to fight with an AO like hysteria?
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Old 2011-12-31, 16:55   Link #204
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Originally Posted by FormerAbyssalone View Post
Ok I like the chapter, things are getting good.

However I'm very surprised at the ghost's arrogance.... Did they really believe that they where going to walk in and be able to fight with an AO like hysteria?
Yes, it's been ticking me off for a while that the Ghosts have remained pretty undefeatable, but taking a ZAO like Hysteria as if it's nothing that's just pushing it to me.

The line has to be drawn somewhere. It was pretty drawn when Priscilla was chasing after Helen and Deneve for Clare during the Destroyer arc and were helpless when got cornered by Priscilla.

The only existence that can pretty much take alone either an AO or a ZAO on her own would be Teresa, because Teresa is Teresa and that's out of discussion to me.

Hope it helps, BTW.
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Old 2011-12-31, 17:03   Link #205
FormerAbyssalone
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Originally Posted by Guido View Post
Yes, it's been ticking me off for a while that the Ghosts have remained pretty undefeatable, but taking a ZAO like Hysteria as if it's nothing that's just pushing it to me.

The line has to be drawn somewhere. It was pretty drawn when Priscilla was chasing after Helen and Deneve for Clare during the Destroyer arc and were helpless when got cornered by Priscilla.

The only existence that can pretty much take alone either an AO or a ZAO on her own would be Teresa, because Teresa is Teresa and that's out of discussion to me.

Hope it helps, BTW.
it does.

Another thing I questioned Hysteria's form, at first. But now I'm starting to like it and she maybe the hardest to finish off due to her amazing speed. Miria literaly would have to awaken to match it.
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Old 2011-12-31, 17:07   Link #206
Claymore!
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Originally Posted by FormerAbyssalone View Post
Ok I like the chapter, things are getting good.

However I'm very surprised at the ghost's arrogance.... Did they really believe that they where going to walk in and be able to fight with an AO like hysteria?
No i don't think thats how they see it. They might just see it as another suicide mission like Pieta. They are not just going to lay down their lives, they are going to fight as hard as they can. Even if it seems impossible they will try to fight the best they can so that maybe they survive. It is also a sort of revenge, so if they die they will still have gotten their revenge because now, no matter what happens, the Organization with be destroyed (like Dae said in chapter 120). If everyone dies then the ZAOs will destroy the organization. If they live then of course they destroy it themselves.
It is like a final battle for the Ghosts.
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Old 2011-12-31, 17:17   Link #207
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happy new year folks
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Old 2011-12-31, 17:30   Link #208
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happy new year folks
I still have another 6.5 hours until my New Year
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Old 2011-12-31, 19:03   Link #209
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Originally Posted by little_angel View Post
1- exactly she had to awaken in order to win. As a claymore there is a high chance that she will lose because as we have seen, Roxanne knew her ability and how it functions so she has the upper hand in this battle. So this proofs that my theory actually works for all three of them.

2- true knowing isn't enough but helps to build a trap (I'm not Yagi to think what kind of trap will work but there must be something to work).

3- maybe one is enough to make her move like that and maybe she is using a technique like Anastasia linking herself to the spikes with a thin string but strong enough to help her stop and change direction and the more spikes she has lunched she can get more than "maneuverability" probably can alter between them (which to link) and maybe this is why she had to spread them all over the battlefield so she can move as freely as she wants and be able to reach whatever place or distance she wants.
1-Wrong,it proves absolutely nothing.
Infact i could even say more: the way that Roxy decided to kill Cassy is (contrary of what you say) a good indication that Roxy wasn't confident at all to be able to kill Cassy in a fair fight,if not she would have taken care of Cassy like all the others.
Roxy didn't have the guts to fight Cassy alone.
Also it's absolutely clear that when Cassy awaken it's just because she's super angry,there is not even a little hint that indicates that Cassy wasn't confident to fight against Roxy in claymore form.....and what i say is proved right because even when BOTH of them are awakened Cassy still see Roxy as just a number two,someone clearly inferior to her.

2-You don't get my point, it doesn't help even a little bit if you consider that Histy is several times faster than anyone else (Miria excluded.....well,even Miria should be clearly slower now) and can control her movements perfectly.
What you say would help ONLY if Histy doesn't have a good control of her movements or if the ghosts have a similar speed than her,and that's clearly not the case.

3-No,with only one she would obviously have a TERRIBLE maneuverability.

---------------------------------------------

HAPPY NEW YEARRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

........hoping it won't be the last,lol......
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Old 2011-12-31, 19:24   Link #210
Jean Claymore
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Originally Posted by FormerAbyssalone View Post
Ok I like the chapter, things are getting good.

However I'm very surprised at the ghost's arrogance.... Did they really believe that they where going to walk in and be able to fight with an AO like hysteria?
Hm, I don't know... Claymore's been too shounenish IMHO lately despite bearing this dark tragedy theme.. It could only be me, but no one has died until now (either the ghosts or the new gen warriors that joined them) since their battle in the North giving an excuse that the ghosts have already surpassed that of any average AB level while Yagi's been pulling out new characters replacing the old 3 AOs at the same level forcing to conflict with the ghosts (yes, I'm looking at you witches especially the mole slut).

As for the ghosts' arrogance, yeah, they WHERE arrogant as hell, but if you take in there perspective, I think it's pretty logical for them wanting to save there leader, right?

Anyways, I'm doubting if anyone's ever gonna die facing Hysteria in the next 5~6 chapters... I know they would lighten their burden down a bit when take out Hysteria since Roxanne would be easy to defeat with Cassandra's assist, but I just wish theirs be no second Jean or anything to bring Miria or anyone back. Um, don't get me wrong ME being pessimist or having wishes to see someone die already, but lately there fights' been kinda too obvious (especially the last chap) offering some poorly results as to Deneve/Nike (since I assume she's defensive too) being the only ones getting beat the shit out of it given the fact they're good at rapid regeneration even if they where to lose half of there body.

Edit: Happy New Year!!!
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Old 2011-12-31, 19:55   Link #211
Shiek927
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The line has to be drawn somewhere. It was pretty drawn when Priscilla was chasing after Helen and Deneve for Clare during the Destroyer arc and were helpless when got cornered by Priscilla.
First time for me was even earlier - it was Helen and Deneve stupidly attacking and surviving Isley...that's when things started to get silly.

EDIT: The ball dropped in New York a few minutes ago, Happy New Year!!!!!!!!
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Old 2012-01-01, 00:17   Link #212
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Spoiler for Off Topic - Less Talk, More Booze:
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Old 2012-01-01, 00:23   Link #213
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Happy new years every one, i'm new to the forum but I'm absolutely obsessed with Claymore. Watched the anime and then heard of the mange being awesome from the reviews on netflix, then read the manga's from 1 to 121 in 2 days. Honestly, even if times it doesn't make sense or Yagi isn't being completely coherent, I still am completely enthralled in the series and hope that they make a do over for the anime like FMA:brotherhood, because that would be awesome LOL. I love you guy's discussions and just wanted to display my gratitude for keeping me entertained when I have no new chapters to read (even though rereading them is awesome too). You all rock and keep up the entertaining conversations.
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Old 2012-01-01, 00:29   Link #214
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7/10

Happy New Year everyone!

I did enjoy the chapter as usual. I'm genuinely excited when the new chapter releases so it's kind of hard to disappoint me a great deal with this series.

I will say that I'm still not entirely a fan of the ZAO's forms. Hopefully the reasoning is along the lines of what Shiek927 said about their inferior forms. That really is something that feels very believable to me, and I'll then be looking forward to their true forms. Of course this is wishful thinking and only speculation.
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Last edited by In Flamez; 2012-01-01 at 00:30. Reason: I forgot to say Happy New Year!
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Old 2012-01-01, 01:14   Link #215
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Happy New Year!

The ball dropped in my country about 10 minutes ago

On-Topic

What I disliked most about this chapter was Miria offering her explanation about reasoning Hysteria's awakened form to explain the traction of the latter to maximize speed without losing it on solid ground.

But, it's more to the fact that she gives the explanation during the flow of the battle watching on as a spectator from the sidelines.

It gives off Claymore becoming more and more like the rest of the mainstream shounen like Naruto, Bleach, or One Piece relying on the protagonists to offer their insights about the techniques of their enemies as they're engaging in mortal combat; it disrupts the flow of the fight.
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Old 2012-01-01, 01:36   Link #216
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What I disliked most about this chapter was Miria offering her explanation about reasoning Hysteria's awakened form to explain the traction of the latter to maximize speed without losing it on solid ground.

But, it's more to the fact that she gives the explanation during the flow of the battle watching on as a spectator from the sidelines.

It gives off Claymore becoming more and more like the rest of the mainstream shounen like Naruto, Bleach, or One Piece relying on the protagonists to offer their insights about the techniques of their enemies as they're engaging in mortal combat; it disrupts the flow of the fight.
I can see why'd you feel annoyed; people feel the same way about Deneve lately...

At the same time, fair's fair - I feel I need to point out that, in general, this kind of vocal analyzing has always been around; even in the volume 1 day (the earliest I think was during the Slayers mission against the six-armed AB - the AB himself even analyzed Miria)....the key difference, in my opinion, is splitting the differences.

The differences being the time where, we can take what we hear as given/the truth, and other times where it could end up being false. In some sense, it's easy to tell -- because, particularly with Dr.Deneve, some theories/explanations are more broad and not as foolproof - they are just seemingly tossed out there and it feels like we are expected to take them as truth....which is silly when their could be a mountain of evidence and/or questions that contradict it.

And then their are other times where their is deception or deliberate misinformation -- hearing about Isley's motives and then learning later the truth about his plans.

Really, all things considered, regardless of the situation....the best move is to just take any and all vocal analyzing with a grain of salt -- because, as with the Isley example, their are moments where we hear something that sounds plausible and sensible (especially when their isn't something at the time to contradict it) and even then, something comes along to change it all up....it's even easier when, with Dr.D, some stuff we hear just feels like it's pulled out of the character's rear. They could be right for all we know, and maybe we're expected to take it as truth....but when their is simply so much that says the answer could be otherwise, it's hard simply to accept that - even if the reason is because the answer we hear is simply, well, boring all things considered.

That's not to say we should immediately assume every analysis we hear is false....just potentially false for whatever reason (not enough proof to confirm, may be changed later, etc) - it may seem like an overly excessive stance to take (though it shouldn't be - after all, in real life, do you automatically assume everything you hear is truth?), but that's how I see it: this story is made with deliberate ambiguity and it's difficult to understand when we're being told something infalliable or not, so we really should never take what we hear as such in the first place, but merely keep it in mind as we analyze the subject ourselves.
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Old 2012-01-01, 03:06   Link #217
little_angel
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Originally Posted by MalakTawus View Post
1-Wrong,it proves absolutely nothing.
Infact i could even say more: the way that Roxy decided to kill Cassy is (contrary of what you say) a good indication that Roxy wasn't confident at all to be able to kill Cassy in a fair fight,if not she would have taken care of Cassy like all the others.
Roxy didn't have the guts to fight Cassy alone.
Also it's absolutely clear that when Cassy awaken it's just because she's super angry,there is not even a little hint that indicates that Cassy wasn't confident to fight against Roxy in claymore form.....and what i say is proved right because even when BOTH of them are awakened Cassy still see Roxy as just a number two,someone clearly inferior to her.

2-You don't get my point, it doesn't help even a little bit if you consider that Histy is several times faster than anyone else (Miria excluded.....well,even Miria should be clearly slower now) and can control her movements perfectly.
What you say would help ONLY if Histy doesn't have a good control of her movements or if the ghosts have a similar speed than her,and that's clearly not the case.

3-No,with only one she would obviously have a TERRIBLE maneuverability.

---------------------------------------------

HAPPY NEW YEARRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

........hoping it won't be the last,lol......
First HAPPY NEW YEAR

now back to business

1- You are using their past to proof something happened in the present (or close past). Roxanne may tricked her because this is her style and Cassandra when she defeated her she was an AO! And when both awakened we can't use anything they say or have said as proof because their minds are different and we have seen this with many ABs. Now can you proof that Cassandra had the upper hand in the fight with Roxanne in their human form as Claymores you can't because we all know that Roxanne had the upper hand because Cassandra was a mess just look at her she was cut everywhere and Roxanne wasn't even scratched and knew everything about Cassandra's abilities and Cassandra knew nothing except maybe a little bit about Blades of Evil and the Beautiful Sword other than that nothing. And now adding all these evidences together you get a solid proof that I have a good chance that my theory is right! (Hysteria not awakening not until she got defeated because she had never thought that Miria had a chance against her. Roxanne never awakened not till she lost all her limbs and finally Cassandra awakened because her body never had a chance in defeating Roxanne the way it was cut as she was in a total disadvantage.).

2- Hysteria has the upper hand which is true but lets take it in other ways her only strong point is her speed.
a-Helen's sword is definitely capable to shred her to pieces but she is slow.
b- Hysteria went crazy from Tabitha because she couldn't sense her and I believe this is the key.
Although they lack speed if she can't sense them and unable to locate them then she wont know that they are behind her and her only solution is to keep moving like crazy so they wont be around her and this is the key to defeat her but sadly it is unlikely to happen because all of the ghosts have released their yoki and none left except Tabitha.

3- Said based on what proof? I believe you haven't understood the image I had drawn in my head so imagine there is a battlefield full of spikes and Hysteria is bound to all of them but due to this bound she is restricted into a very small area of movement. Now imagine that she can control which to link and unlink then she can move freely but yet have a steady support to help her change direction and stop. Now imagine she can link to unlinked ones then her change in direction is unlimited and can move in all directions all distance with great acceleration and velocity. Now imagine she can change the places of these spikes then she can move like she want anywhere in the battlefield and that's it. This simply summarizes Hysteria's ability like I thought of after reading what Solace and you said and imagined the perfect technique for Hysteria to keep her speed(or in this case velocity) with full control.
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Old 2012-01-01, 06:29   Link #218
MalakTawus
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First HAPPY NEW YEAR

now back to business

1- You are using their past to proof something happened in the present (or close past). Roxanne may tricked her because this is her style and Cassandra when she defeated her she was an AO! And when both awakened we can't use anything they say or have said as proof because their minds are different and we have seen this with many ABs. Now can you proof that Cassandra had the upper hand in the fight with Roxanne in their human form as Claymores you can't because we all know that Roxanne had the upper hand because Cassandra was a mess just look at her she was cut everywhere and Roxanne wasn't even scratched and knew everything about Cassandra's abilities and Cassandra knew nothing except maybe a little bit about Blades of Evil and the Beautiful Sword other than that nothing. And now adding all these evidences together you get a solid proof that I have a good chance that my theory is right! (Hysteria not awakening not until she got defeated because she had never thought that Miria had a chance against her. Roxanne never awakened not till she lost all her limbs and finally Cassandra awakened because her body never had a chance in defeating Roxanne the way it was cut as she was in a total disadvantage.).

2- Hysteria has the upper hand which is true but lets take it in other ways her only strong point is her speed.
a-Helen's sword is definitely capable to shred her to pieces but she is slow.
b- Hysteria went crazy from Tabitha because she couldn't sense her and I believe this is the key.
Although they lack speed if she can't sense them and unable to locate them then she wont know that they are behind her and her only solution is to keep moving like crazy so they wont be around her and this is the key to defeat her but sadly it is unlikely to happen because all of the ghosts have released their yoki and none left except Tabitha.

3- Said based on what proof? I believe you haven't understood the image I had drawn in my head so imagine there is a battlefield full of spikes and Hysteria is bound to all of them but due to this bound she is restricted into a very small area of movement. Now imagine that she can control which to link and unlink then she can move freely but yet have a steady support to help her change direction and stop. Now imagine she can link to unlinked ones then her change in direction is unlimited and can move in all directions all distance with great acceleration and velocity. Now imagine she can change the places of these spikes then she can move like she want anywhere in the battlefield and that's it. This simply summarizes Hysteria's ability like I thought of after reading what Solace and you said and imagined the perfect technique for Hysteria to keep her speed(or in this case velocity) with full control.
1-Sorry but you are wrong,even when both of them awakened Cassy continued to consider Roxy inferior and said to her that she was just a number two.
Also their mind don't completely change,if Cassy consider Roxy just a number two is because even in her normal form she saw her just as a number two,it's useless trying to deny this evidence.
Ehm,it's a FACT that Roxy didn't fight against Cassy.
The only reasonthat Cassy was hurt is because she WANTED to be hurt during that attack (and btw Roxy wasn't the one to hurt Cassy!!!Roxy just gave her the killing blow at the very end,like a coward,lol).All that Roxy did was killing Cassy when she was already in very critical conditions.
It's a fact that Roxy killed all her other friends alone,and it's also a fact that instead Roxy decided to kill Cassy in thta way.It doesn't take a genius that the ONLY logical reason for her to change her pattern is because Roxy wasn't confident to be able to kill Cassy in a one on one fight.

Also knowing about a technique helps sometimes but it's meaningless most of the times,lol.
Example: the ghosts know perfectly well about Claire's QS.Do you think that can help them if Claire was trying to kill them? NO!!!

Just because Roxy saw Cassy's technique it doesn't mean that she can defeat her,those are two completely different things.

Also it's 100% sure that Cassy awakened simply because she remembered about Roxy and was FURIOUS.

Also your theory is weak as hell 'cause not even Histy needed to awaken to kill Miria,lol. If instead of awakening she simply take out the sword from the neck and continued fighting like normal she would have surely won 'cause there is no doubt that Histy is A LOT stronger than Miria even if she stays in human form.
Miria won only thanx to a trick,no way that would have happened a second time.

The ONLY one that was forced to awaken was Roxy,no one else.

2- Considering the difference in speed (with great control) and power,if Histy wants to kill someone there is absolutely nothing that the ghosts can do atm.
Their only chance is to hope that Histy understimate them too much and gives them the opportunity to do something to lower the accuracy of her movements (maybe cutting her hooks to the ground),at this point MAYBE Miria can do something to kill her (since it would be very bad for Histy to have an immense speed with no control over it).
BUT this will work only if Histy lowers her guard too much,if she fights mercilessly from the very beginning she could easily kill all of the ghosts in a few moments.

3-It would be an interesting theory if it wans't for the fact that we have seen clearly that she doesn't leave her spikes to the ground in the beginning (but maybe that's what she is planning to do at the very end when she launches all her spikes).
Anyway even with your theory,linking ONLY to one hook (that's what you said) to change direction would give her a very bad manouvrability.
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Old 2012-01-01, 07:19   Link #219
irvinethearcher
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Happy new year everyone
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Old 2012-01-01, 08:59   Link #220
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I'll address only problem #1.

@MalakTawus
Cassy saying that Roxanne is a mere #2 and the fact that Roxy's first attack didn't succeed doesn't mean much. If you really think that's all Roxy has in store then you're really easy target for Yagi. The fight was cut off before the situation got more serious. Imagine Teresa vs. Rosemary fight being cut off at this moment. So far neither of them did anything to the other and neither of them went full power. A good example is Isley vs. Luciella fight. Isley pierced Luciella but it meant nothing since moment later she ate his arrows. Anyway, unless they're so weak compared to Isley and Luciella (who destroyed a large area) and this is all they've got it's way too early to say anything.

As for her fight in Claymore form, I've debated about this in detail in 119th thread.It starts about here (probably earlier) and goes on for like 10 pages (e.g. here starts discussion between me and one user). I've tried to show that Cassandra was defeated by the weakest technique there is so the handicap (Cassy being cut) was irrelevant since both of them had it. Also Cassy was too weak to just storm through small fries without injury and attack Roxanne, contrary to Miria for example. Her technique didn't even allow her to parry attacks or dodge them and she was one-shotted by Roxy using only a hilt of a sword. To me it clearly shows who was stronger as a Claymore. This doesn't necessarily mean Cassandra is less powerful as an AB but we have too little information to say for now.
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