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Old 2013-08-16, 04:26   Link #3801
Shinji103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamadooddood View Post
I... see. And all of Ratatoskr's stored info got wiped too huh. They really want to make this as canon-looking as possible. Oh yeah when did Rinne first see them? Did she retcon their first meeting or something?
For when we can say they first actually met Rinne, through all the world resets, that would probably be the morning after Shidou first wakes up after the incident with Tohka. The flow of events that started the story of the game goes:

Tohka's powers go out of control. (I believe it was said somewhere that this was somehow connected to Rinne)

Rinne creates the barrier and her world to save Shidou from the blast. (the beginning of all the resets and game routes)

Shidou wakes up and Kotori explains about Tohka's breakdown and the Spirit Apartment being busted, Origami sneaks into Shidou's bed, etc.

The next morning is when Rinne actually meets Shidou directly. She used her powers to give Shidou and the others the memories of her being Shidou's childhood friend, and the memories of knowing her all this time.
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Old 2013-08-16, 10:49   Link #3802
LeWLWuT
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Hey, I'm back!

My colleagues are busy discussing Rinne's overall impact to the series. I say it's more like denying the fact that she doesn't exist. It's becoming an inside joke in our workplace.

They say the Rinne route was the true end, and they are expecting her return because of this bit.

Spoiler for What if...:
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Old 2013-08-16, 10:50   Link #3803
iamadooddood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
For when we can say they first actually met Rinne, through all the world resets, that would probably be the morning after Shidou first wakes up after the incident with Tohka. The flow of events that started the story of the game goes:

Tohka's powers go out of control. (I believe it was said somewhere that this was somehow connected to Rinne)

Rinne creates the barrier and her world to save Shidou from the blast. (the beginning of all the resets and game routes)

Shidou wakes up and Kotori explains about Tohka's breakdown and the Spirit Apartment being busted, Origami sneaks into Shidou's bed, etc.

The next morning is when Rinne actually meets Shidou directly. She used her powers to give Shidou and the others the memories of her being Shidou's childhood friend, and the memories of knowing her all this time.
Yes, I believe Rinne was responsible for Tohka going out of control. At least, whoever was weakening the seal that were keeping the Spirits' power in check.

But we digress; main question is: is the game canon? We could ask the author, or...

Did Origami's punishment status get retconned by Rinne? As in the White Licorice never got used by Origami without permission. If it was, I've run out of arguments and will need an answer from the author of the light novels. If not, then chances are high that I'm right.
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Old 2013-08-16, 11:02   Link #3804
Shinji103
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Originally Posted by iamadooddood View Post
Did Origami's punishment status get retconned by Rinne? As in the White Licorice never got used by Origami without permission. If it was, I've run out of arguments and will need an answer from the author of the light novels. If not, then chances are high that I'm right.
No, because the game starts up pretty much right after the anime ended so the AST didn't get a chance to make a decision, and because they were trapped in the barrier they allowed her to stay on the reserves.

But that just means that the game fits in just fine with the events of the series. It doesn't mean the game isn't canon, we just can't say definitively either way since no official statement has been made about it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LeWLWuT View Post
Hey, I'm back!

My colleagues are busy discussing Rinne's overall impact to the series. I say it's more like denying the fact that she doesn't exist. It's becoming an inside joke in our workplace.

They say the Rinne route was the true end, and they are expecting her return because of this bit.

Spoiler for What if...:
Well, that was more of a bonus scene. What really suggests a return to the game plot at some point is the "mysterious existence" that appeared at the end of her route which was deliberately never explained or identified. A sequel game (or even possibly Reine's integration intop the novels/anime) is quite likely.
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Old 2013-08-16, 11:26   Link #3805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
Well, that was more of a bonus scene. What really suggests a return to the game plot at some point is the "mysterious existence" that appeared at the end of her route which was deliberately never explained or identified. A sequel game (or even possibly Reine's integration into the novels/anime) is quite likely.
Maybe it's Phantom. After all, ??? is a mystery in itself.

By that scene, you meant this right?
Spoiler for True End?:



And on a side note, who was the one talking in Shidou's dream from Volume1?

Last edited by LeWLWuT; 2013-08-16 at 15:13. Reason: Space and Spoilers
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Old 2013-08-16, 11:53   Link #3806
iamadooddood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeWLWuT View Post
Hey, I'm back!

My colleagues are busy discussing Rinne's overall impact to the series. I say it's more like denying the fact that she doesn't exist. It's becoming an inside joke in our workplace.

They say the Rinne route was the true end, and they are expecting her return because of this bit.

Spoiler for What if...:
He remembered her? And no one else did? The What If route is certainly not canon. What If routes aren't usually canon anyway. What happened to her powers in the What If route anyway?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
No, because the game starts up pretty much right after the anime ended so the AST didn't get a chance to make a decision, and because they were trapped in the barrier they allowed her to stay on the reserves.

But that just means that the game fits in just fine with the events of the series. It doesn't mean the game isn't canon, we just can't say definitively either way since no official statement has been made about it.


Well, that was more of a bonus scene. What really suggests a return to the game plot at some point is the "mysterious existence" that appeared at the end of her route which was deliberately never explained or identified. A sequel game (or even possibly Reine's integration intop the novels/anime) is quite likely.
June 22 to 26 is certainly enough time for AST to decide to remove Origami's privilege to use Realizers for the time being (and those awaiting potential dishonourable discharge don't usually get put on the frontlines, even for emergencies), unless you're saying the AST is terribly incompetent. Not that I'd blame you for that...

A sequel would be great, but I'll like to know how they'll pull one off without rehashing the retconning plot (or at least not make the plot seem overly repetitive).

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeWLWuT View Post
Maybe it's Phantom. After all, ??? is a mystery in itself.

By that scene, you meant this right?

Translation:

Rinne: ...
Rinne: Everyone... Forgetting everything. No. As if nothing happened. An irregularity that is me has disappeared from the world... everything went back to normal...
Rinne: It's good this way, right? Shidou?
Rinne: ...
Rinne: You are?
???: Thank you for the hard work. You've excellently fulfilled your duty.
Rinne: ...
???: Now sleep restfully...

And on a side note, who was the one talking in Shidou's dream from Volume1?
His mother I presume.
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Old 2013-08-16, 12:12   Link #3807
LeWLWuT
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Originally Posted by iamadooddood View Post
He remembered her? And no one else did? The What If route is certainly not canon. What If routes aren't usually canon anyway. What happened to her powers in the What If route anyway?
Like any other spirit, her powers got sealed, and he remembered her because he did so, I suppose.

They don't call it a what if scenario for nothing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamadooddood View Post
His mother I presume.
Speaking of his mom, 2ch has got a theory going on that Reine is Shidou's mom, but I don't see that from happening. Another says that Phantom could be Shidou's mom, although I also see that highly unlikely.
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Old 2013-08-16, 12:26   Link #3808
Nvis
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If Mana is Shidou's real sister, shouldn't she also get some kickass/spirit ability? It should run in the family???
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Old 2013-08-16, 13:19   Link #3809
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I think Mana is Shidou's clone and the one she called "onii-sama" was also a clone. This would explain the mystery of Mana's photo.
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Old 2013-08-16, 13:49   Link #3810
LeWLWuT
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Originally Posted by Nvis View Post
If Mana is Shidou's real sister, shouldn't she also get some kickass/spirit ability? It should run in the family???
She isn't DEM's trump card for nothing! Although her abilities don't come from spirits, but from enhancements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kutra View Post
I think Mana is Shidou's clone and the one she called "onii-sama" was also a clone. This would explain the mystery of Mana's photo.
I don't see the Clone theory as a theory at all. That's just plain junk, as my colleagues would say.

Spoiler for YFW:

Last edited by LeWLWuT; 2013-08-16 at 15:28. Reason: Spoilers
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Old 2013-08-16, 14:58   Link #3811
Shinji103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamadooddood View Post
June 22 to 26 is certainly enough time for AST to decide to remove Origami's privilege to use Realizers for the time being (and those awaiting potential dishonourable discharge don't usually get put on the frontlines, even for emergencies), unless you're saying the AST is terribly incompetent. Not that I'd blame you for that...
I'm simply saying the game fits in the continuity, so it could very well be canon.

LeWLWuT, you might want to put that screenshot array in spoiler tags for various reasons, not least of which is to save space.
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Old 2013-08-16, 15:15   Link #3812
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Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
Well, it kind of is a stupid question. (no offense)

She hasn't been "conquered" because she doesn't want to be. She knows about Shidou's sealing power, and she's not interested in being in love with anybody in the first place. (at least not outwardly or consciously) If Shidou seals her powers, she can't go back in time and kill the first spirit, so clearly letting herself be won over by Shidou will be against her own intentions.
and plus think how broken Shidou would be he Kurumi gets conquered, I mean you have to put into consideration how he can use Kotori's power of immortality with powers casted from his own life namely Kurumi's clones and or control over time plus the way Shidou is now... he's technically an unstoppable force, being Immortal (Kotori), can mind control (Miku), can summon emptiness or a giant sword (Tohka), create water (Yoshino), control over wind and storms (Yamai twins), imagine what would happen if he can also enter their negative states.. as it was the very question brought up some way pages ago
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Old 2013-08-16, 15:26   Link #3813
LeWLWuT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103
you might want to put that screenshot array in spoiler tags for various reasons, not least of which is to save space.
I'm sorry about that. The connection didn't allow me.

So what other theories can you crack up?

Spoiler for DAL Theories:


EDIT: I've got news!

Spoiler for Confirmed by Author:

Last edited by LeWLWuT; 2013-08-16 at 17:49. Reason: More News
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Old 2013-08-16, 22:02   Link #3814
Master Assassin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeWLWuT View Post
EDIT: I've got news!

Spoiler for Confirmed by Author:
Hotlinking...

The image in quote:



Also:
Spoiler for On Natsumi theory:
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Old 2013-08-17, 00:31   Link #3815
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Originally Posted by Master Assassin View Post
Also:
Spoiler for On Natsumi theory:
Which is why I speculate she is Reine or takes her form as it suits the Onee-san the easiest.
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Old 2013-08-18, 05:38   Link #3816
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I know it is a bit later to ask, but why are Kotori and Miku the only ones that turned from human to spirit. Was there original spirits back then? If so, what happened to them?
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Old 2013-08-18, 06:23   Link #3817
iamadooddood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeWLWuT View Post
EDIT: I've got news!

Spoiler for Confirmed by Author:
Only means it could be canon, not means that it is canon.

@Shinji103: The What If route implied that Shido didn't lose his memories of Rinne. Did Rinne actually strip him of his memories in the true route? If not then once again I highly doubt the canonity of the VN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Assassin View Post
Also:
Spoiler for On Natsumi theory:
Spoiler:


Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckersister View Post
I know it is a bit later to ask, but why are Kotori and Miku the only ones that turned from human to spirit. Was there original spirits back then? If so, what happened to them?
Not revealed yet. We still don't know for sure.
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Old 2013-08-18, 07:58   Link #3818
Shinji103
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Originally Posted by iamadooddood View Post
@Shinji103: The What If route implied that Shido didn't lose his memories of Rinne. Did Rinne actually strip him of his memories in the true route? If not then once again I highly doubt the canonity of the VN.
With the end of Rinne's world and the collapse of the barrier, the world was completely reset, as if Rinne's world had never existed in the first place. In that sense, yes everybody's memories were wiped.

In the What If scene, Rinne comes back as a transfer student, and seeing her restores Shidou's memories.
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Old 2013-08-18, 12:06   Link #3819
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Do we have any Info on the newest spirit?
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Old 2013-08-18, 18:02   Link #3820
zero17
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hi guys someone said before that shido has in his name the number 11 but er shido not mean too shi (four), do (way/path), i mean not in kanji in the way of said, like reine that has the word "rei" what kanji is for king and zero...... so i said, and also i think that shidou is something like a jesucrist more thn a spirit because for mere coincidence tohka represents in the life tree the mineral world but also crist figure or something like that ,somethimes i thing in evangelion anime maybe date a live can has some similarity's in the background but the autor has to show us that facts

Last edited by zero17; 2013-08-18 at 20:47.
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