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Old 2013-07-02, 07:55   Link #681
Renall
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No character resembles me all that closely, no, and definitely not physically. In fact, the physical appearances of any new characters are largely based on what was easiest to sprite edit. It's difficult to Color Replace Beatrice's hair to any colors other than red and brown, so...

The occupational overlap was solely because it's something I understand to an extent and it's something I always thought was in theme for Umineko yet not a single character of importance appears to be one.
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifloon View Post
While we're on the subject, though, I have to say that the whole direction that the plot ended up going in actually kind of creeps me out in a lot of ways. A large amount of it is extremely similar to an Umineko fanfic I was planning on writing long before I'd even heard of Redaction, and I was planning on introducing a self-insert character as the witch in much the same manner that Sarah did. Several of the scenes are so similar to my outlines that it's almost unbelievable. But I suppose I should probably have stopped being freaked out by my resemblance to fictional characters after the original Beatrice happened. Anyway, many thanks to Renall for essentially writing what I wanted to and probably never would have gotten around to.
You think that's weird, I had a conception for a Black Battler character before Black Battler existed. I wasted so much time on this thing I got sniped by canon.

Fortunately I didn't get sniped on Andromalius, but then again, it's not like I would. He's male, after all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Bug-Hunter View Post
Spoiler for Futile(?) attempt at clarification:
I'm actually not gonna say a damn thing about Walter. Gotta leave in potential sequel hooks. Certainly I'd expect you to wonder who he is and why he's writing it. But I've actually always kept vague on that part, even to my editors. If you think you're curious as to his identity, imagine how certain other characters must feel.

That's not confirmation that he is or isn't a specific person, mind you. Just that it's one of the answers I didn't mean to spell out, nor one I intended to be 100% solvable. Of course saying that, the odds I'd actually do any sort of sequel seems low unless I get that one California project out of the freezer. You're right to be suspicious of the "random goat" thing, because honestly why would he care? Is he just that committed to justice? How in the world did he notice the subtext? Why would he draw the conclusions he drew? I'm not necessarily answering those, but someday I might, so I wanted to leave some of that in there to help profile him. I'm not expecting you to know his name or appearance or anything, since obviously he didn't want anyone to know that.

EDIT: Also, to say Part 3 has no specific textual origin isn't to say you shouldn't have been wondering about what is and isn't in the Forgery/report. Just that if something appears to have not been possible to be in there, maybe it's not part of it, and if it's not, why did I put it there? The obvious reason for Part 3 is to put you inside the mind of this person, so that you can judge them in the context of their subsequent words and actions.
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Redaction of the Golden Witch
I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

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Battler Solves The Logic Error

Last edited by Renall; 2013-07-02 at 08:06.
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Old 2013-07-15, 04:48   Link #682
Jaden
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By the way, about those 1986 scenes where Virgilia is reading and there is static all over the place...did you actually write a normal, full script and then deleted parts here and there? Or did you just write a bunch of loosely coherent half-phrases from the start?
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Old 2013-07-15, 12:52   Link #683
AuraTwilight
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I can attest that he basically wrote it fragmented from the start; not to say that he was improvising or bullshitting. He just knew what was there without having to put it down, more or less.
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Old 2013-07-15, 18:56   Link #684
GoldenLand
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Let's see...for an overall review thing, I'd like to say how much I enjoyed Redaction and that I appreciate the huge amount of work that obviously went into it. It was a long and entertaining story, with good writing, consistent themes and good character development. I do like the way that it broke the mould while also remaining very much an Umineko universe story. I also liked the way it followed the pattern of the series, with tips and tea parties and whatnot.

The mysteries were solvable, and the questions video was useful. The only flaw with that was that because of the length of the game there were so very many mysteries and questions to answer, which meant that I didn't really have time to address all of them - but I must add that I certainly wouldn't have wanted to sacrifice any of the length of the story in order to make the mysteries more approachable, as I enjoyed the story as it was very much.

One of the things I was most impressed with was how the character Andromalius was written and integrated into the story. He was really very interesting. The other original characters were by no means bad - I liked them too - but Andromalius stood out and seemed to have the most depth.

If there's ever a sequel, I'll certainly read it just as keenly as I did this one. As Umineko fanfiction, Redaction was superb. It would probably have been easier to read in the now-available VN format (since that could be clicked through at a faster pace) but I don't regret reading it as each part came out. That was a lot of fun. Congratulations to Renall for doing such good work.
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Old 2013-07-15, 20:49   Link #685
Renall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
By the way, about those 1986 scenes where Virgilia is reading and there is static all over the place...did you actually write a normal, full script and then deleted parts here and there? Or did you just write a bunch of loosely coherent half-phrases from the start?
Actually, I wrote out whole sentences and cut parts out.
Spoiler for Redaction Part 4.1:
However, I didn't write whole scenes. I wrote exactly the sentences that are there and just trimmed them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
Let's see...for an overall review thing, I'd like to say how much I enjoyed Redaction and that I appreciate the huge amount of work that obviously went into it. It was a long and entertaining story, with good writing, consistent themes and good character development. I do like the way that it broke the mould while also remaining very much an Umineko universe story. I also liked the way it followed the pattern of the series, with tips and tea parties and whatnot.

The mysteries were solvable, and the questions video was useful. The only flaw with that was that because of the length of the game there were so very many mysteries and questions to answer, which meant that I didn't really have time to address all of them - but I must add that I certainly wouldn't have wanted to sacrifice any of the length of the story in order to make the mysteries more approachable, as I enjoyed the story as it was very much.
Thanks, that means a lot! It was definitely my overall goal to write something that was "Umineko but not just Umineko." I sort of felt that the point was not to tell the stories of the main characters but to sort of supplement them with parallels.
Spoiler for Redaction Generally:
I'd be lying if I said Redaction wasn't a sort of "response" to the canon episodes and especially to the ending, but I didn't want to get overly preachy and I tried to modify what I saw as some of the themes rather than outright stand against them.
Spoiler for Ending & Themes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
One of the things I was most impressed with was how the character Andromalius was written and integrated into the story. He was really very interesting. The other original characters were by no means bad - I liked them too - but Andromalius stood out and seemed to have the most depth.
Haha, one person described him as "annoying," but most people seem to have liked him as a character. Of course Andromalius was by far the most important and well-developed character by design, and the first one I had ever actually thought up for this project (the original conception was a short story of an abbreviated Part 3, with Andromalius basically serving as the adversary in the end). His personality was subtly adjusted from his original concept, in part to contrast him with the other denizens of Heaven. He used to be much more methodical and intellectual, but I changed him to basically be ruled by his emotions and well-read but not necessarily all that smart. This works better in contrast with his mode of speaking, which is basically imagined as someone talking angrily through gritted teeth at all times.

If any character reappears, it'd be him. He has the most possibility anyway, which is why the second Extra TIP was supposed to be about him. I intend to write that for when I finish the non-slapdash VN version as kind of a bonus.
Spoiler for TIP Speculation:
And yes, he was always intended to be male... solely because the cast has so few male characters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
If there's ever a sequel, I'll certainly read it just as keenly as I did this one.
The main problem I have with a sequel - and I've certainly considered expanding on the whole American Witch Hunter thing - is getting too far from canon. The Forgery is an important and thematically essential part of Redaction, and having that 1986 story and Battler's meta-world in there unifies the new story with the existing cast of characters. But it's hard to imagine how that would work again; the concept doesn't exactly lend itself to being repeated. Walter Absalom could dig up some new Fragment, but it's not going to have the same weight or importance at all unless I can think of some integration with the 1986 pattern while also making thematic sense for the future.

That project I was working on a year or so ago where all the characters were actually people at a dinner theater is interesting, but the problem I ran into with people reading it was that the characters just didn't feel right because they resembled the canon characters but acted nothing like them. That was the point, but you can see how that alone can't carry an Umineko narrative. People don't want to see a guy who isn't Battler unless they also get to see the real one. The other problem with that project was the lack of a good hook for a magical or meta-world hook.

Of course, outside of Redaction, I did have a few Umineko-related ideas...
Spoiler for The Witch of Truth Goes Forth:
Spoiler for If I Lived:
Spoiler for The Board Where Everyone's On Fire For No Reason:
Spoiler for Thirty-Six Chambers of the Golden Witch:
Okay, some of those might be fake.
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Redaction of the Golden Witch
I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

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Old 2013-07-15, 22:03   Link #686
AuraTwilight
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There is, of course, another idea Renall and I keep kicking back and forth that isn't included above; but so much as describing it in any way spoils the entire thing, so~
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Old 2013-07-28, 17:24   Link #687
Renall
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I've thrown up a blog post detailing the actual next project, which is still in a very rough state. I mean it's playable now, if by playable one means "Erika, alone forever in a time-locked stasis Rokkenjima, with no human beings or objects to interact with." Which... actually seems like a pretty cool thing Bern would actually do to her! But it's not intentional.

Basic premise is similar to ep3 of When The Seacats Cry: Erika is plopped into a Fragment and gets to solve things in whatever fashion she will. Or not solve it. Honestly, she could go the entire weekend not being seen by a single other human being if you want. There'll be investigation, eavesdropping, puzzles (including a new epitaph), and plenty of ways to get Erika killed and then mocked by Bernkastel and the narrator. But everything Erika learns carries over to the next cycle, so even if you manage to get yourself super-murdered (or just die in a hilarious accident) you'll be better able to prepare for the next go-round.

I'm also working on a plethora of other features.
  • Fully explorable Rokkenjima! Even the parts nobody wanted to see more of!
  • Find the killer! Stop the killer! Fail to stop the killer! Ignore the killer! Bernkastel doesn't care!
  • Befriend the family! Annoy the family! Blackmail the family! Save the family and destroy Beatrice's catbox! Murder the family yourself!
  • Duct tape! Complex chemistry! Orienteering! Impersonating Dr. Nanjo!
  • A few Bernkastel-approved twists and premise changes to throw you off your game!
  • Blatant abuse of meta-knowledge to Erika's benefit! Wipe that smug smile right off Battler's face when you exploit information you couldn't possibly know to beat him in an argument!
  • Multiple endings, most of them silly or stupid! You can die on the very first choice in the game, that's one ending.
  • Acheivements! Mostly for getting endings or doing silly or clever things.
  • Absolutely no annoying witches or demons getting in your way with their illusions and murder powers! You'll just have to get killed the normal way: Doing something stupid and dangerous.
  • Actual seagulls actually crying on October 6th! And you can even be alive to hear them! Maybe. You gotta survive those 48 hours first.
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Redaction of the Golden Witch
I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

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Old 2013-07-29, 11:39   Link #688
battle22
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Wow Renall that sounds amazing. Definitely something I will check out.
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Old 2013-07-29, 14:30   Link #689
AuraTwilight
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Renall, you forgot one possible feature, if we can get the sprite-editing right.

Costuuuumes! Meido Erika will finally be a reality.
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Old 2013-07-29, 15:40   Link #690
Renall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Renall, you forgot one possible feature, if we can get the sprite-editing right.

Costuuuumes! Meido Erika will finally be a reality.
Well, yes, sort of. I still need to contact some people on that for permission/possible commission, so I only displayed the costumes that Erika has by default.

As you would figure, you start in just a swimsuit, and acquire the regular dress when you make contact with the family (or steal it out of Jessica's closet without anyone knowing you did so; it's not like Jessica is going to care). Other outfits will potentially be available, including the wedding dress (which is mostly a gag outfit), a maid outfit (this will take some heavy sprite editing unless I get an artist to just redraw part of it), and the ability to steal Shannon or Kanon's "costume" (outfit, wig, and in Shannon's case padding). Possibly other things, but what exactly will come up depends on whether they would be funny/useful outfits and whether I can get them actually made. Shannon/Kanon impersonation is easy because I really only have to alter their eye color to match Erika's and can otherwise just use their sprites. Maid Erika is slightly harder because Erika's hair is a nightmare to Photoshop, but if I can figure it out I can easily make it.

Most costumes will do nothing except elicit funny responses from people, but a few will allow you to actually impersonate someone. Also it will annoy the family if you keep stripping to your swimsuit around them, but you might still want to do so for certain practical purposes when nobody is watching you. Or because you want to annoy the family.
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Redaction of the Golden Witch
I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

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Battler Solves The Logic Error
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Old 2013-07-29, 22:45   Link #691
Golden Bug-Hunter
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Out of curiosity, who is that girl supposed to be in 'If I lived'? I'm not as familiar with the PS3 sprites as the original, so I'm a little slow on this one. Young Eva? One of the maids that inspired the stakes? Grown up Maria?

The new game looks fun. Looking forward to it.
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Old 2013-07-30, 01:53   Link #692
AuraTwilight
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The girl in "If I Lived" is a custom-made Grown Up Maria based on modifying Rosa's head on Ange's body. It's essentially the premise of Maria surviving and how this completely alters the entire 1998 dynamic.
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Old 2013-07-30, 08:02   Link #693
Renall
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Yeah, it's Rosa with short color-shifted hair and Maria's eye color (at least from the PS3 version where her eyes are purple for whatever reason). School outfit is modified from Ange's and the female goats, "casual" outfit is just Rosa's casual from the PS3 version where she actually has one.

That one's probably too difficult to finish as it's difficult to write.
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Redaction of the Golden Witch
I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

Blog (VN DL) - YouTube Playlists
Battler Solves The Logic Error
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Old 2013-07-30, 14:42   Link #694
AuraTwilight
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We can do it, you and me~~
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Old 2013-07-30, 23:04   Link #695
Golden Bug-Hunter
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My interest level starts high... and decreases exponentially every time I read the word 'UUUUUUH!'

Wait, it's not a GBH post until I've posted some wild speculation. Ok. Here we go.

Spoiler for The ending of 36 Chambers of the Golden Witch revealed!:
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Old 2013-07-30, 23:11   Link #696
Renall
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Ol' Dirty Battler and Goldface Killah shall extend an invitation to the BKA, the LDA, Method Man, and all the Killa Beez. When Erika's about, you better protect your neck son.
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Redaction of the Golden Witch
I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

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Battler Solves The Logic Error
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Old 2013-09-10, 21:49   Link #697
Renall
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Progress on Untitled Erika Furudo Project - A Spike Lee Joint continues apace, meaning "whenever I feel like it." About 90% of everything is mapped and I'm moving on to objects, examination, and interactivity! Should be a gas.

Of course, stepping onto the stage of Rokkenjima once more would be a touch tedious for anyone who has familiarized themselves well with Ryukishi's eight episodes (to say nothing of the various engaging and thought-provoking fan episodes you should definitely Google!). After all, where's the fun in exploring the island's mysteries if everything was exactly as you'd think it would be?

To that end, there will be... changes. I'm all about exploiting meta-knowledge, but if you try to take things a step too far you might find yourself (or mostly Erika) dealing with unexpected... consequences.
Spoiler for Epitaph Solution Stuff:
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Redaction of the Golden Witch
I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

Blog (VN DL) - YouTube Playlists
Battler Solves The Logic Error
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Old 2013-09-15, 14:20   Link #698
einhorn303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
I've thrown up a blog post detailing the actual next project, which is still in a very rough state. I mean it's playable now, if by playable one means "Erika, alone forever in a time-locked stasis Rokkenjima, with no human beings or objects to interact with." Which... actually seems like a pretty cool thing Bern would actually do to her! But it's not intentional.../list]
This sounds pretty awesome! Are you doing it with OnScripter? This level of interactivity reminds me a lot of Interactive Fiction, those games with a text-based parser where you type in things like "get lamp" and "ask Shannon about key." You might be able to get some ideas from those sort of games. They've come a long way, thanks to the non-commercial scene and yearly IF Comp, since the 80's.
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Old 2013-11-13, 16:17   Link #699
Leafsnail
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I only just read Redaction since I forgot about its existence for the past year. Overall I really liked it, as it was

I have a couple of problems that may or may not be due to reading comprehension failures.

Spoiler:


I also have some speculation to offer on the "who is Walter" matter:
Spoiler:
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Old 2013-11-13, 16:23   Link #700
AuraTwilight
The True Culprit
 
 
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Response to Leafsnail below:

Spoiler for Spoiler:
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