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Old 2013-02-23, 14:10   Link #2921
serbian otaku #1
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Originally Posted by cyberdemon View Post
Miyuki would likely follow Tatsuya wherever he went even if it meant fighting the Yotsuba. I'd say that the Saegusa would be happy to protect her if Tatsuya asked for it. They seek to weaken the Yotsuba, not destroy them. If they could get in someone they could trust as head, it would all be for the better.
Yes, but since Miyuki still has emotions maybe they'll use them to control her
Controling Miyuki=Controling Tatsuya, and she still loves her family so she won't leave them so easily.
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Old 2013-02-23, 14:13   Link #2922
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As long as these plans don't endanger Miyuki in any way I'm sure Tats will just let it happen.
He'd take any repercussions on himself and deal with it accordingly.
However if it does endanger Miyuki then death is inevitable.
Tats would hunt down any and all involved and turn em all to ash.
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Old 2013-02-23, 14:19   Link #2923
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Originally Posted by Tru3Ph03niX View Post
As long as these plans don't endanger Miyuki in any way I'm sure Tats will just let it happen.
He'd take any repercussions on himself and deal with it accordingly.
However if it does endanger Miyuki then death is inevitable.
Tats would hunt down any and all involved and turn em all to ash.
Correction, not even ashes would remain. And Miyuki isn't so weak to be killed, she's still one of the more powerfull mages, Tats is just a special case.
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Old 2013-02-23, 14:22   Link #2924
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remember at the end of the past volume i think it said tatsuya will never fight the yotsuba maybe the other clans team up and destroy them?
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Old 2013-02-23, 14:36   Link #2925
Von Himmel
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* Its not said openly, but its implicit idea If they ready knows previously Sirius Team arrival to Japan they're coming its cuz they have contacts, the Commander its probably the newest and her level of access its good.
Sorry, I really don't understand what you're trying to say here I feel as if we're talking about two different things.

My point is that based on that..summary paragraph, the USNA commander states that an aid from Yotsuba would cover up her mistakes. How could the Yotsuba aid her in any way without having a proper influence in the USNA? Will that let her still have positions in the USNA even after those mistakes or will they aid her to escape from them? Anyway, it's still a proof that the Yotsuba power could influence them.
Quote:
point2-4
Look, before this goes nowhere let me point out that I argued with you because you disagreed with me that Fujibayashi tried to hide her position, then you bring out the reason why she's not.

Frankly, you're under severe impression that a ghost unit would be so damn famous that every members of the 10th family would know about it. It's a ghost unit for a reason, people shouldn't know anything about them before they make a proper investigation or see them in person. There might be more agent that works in the shadow too, so people couldn't just immediately assumed that anyone working in that unit.

That is of course, until they see what the they're capable of in the Yokohama incident. Without this incident, I don't think anyone that never did proper investigation would realize that the people they know would be involved in that unit. Did Toshikazu investigate about the unit and Fujibayashi? He might've heard about the unit but he couldn't possibly make the connection. He could probably make out vague ideas, but I don't think it's enough to properly find out about her.

Seriously, what did you think all the conversation between him and Fujibayashi anyway? It's basically her giving away some information with unknown but reliable intel and Toshikazu doing the hard work with that information. He didn't know anything about some sort of unit that she worked in, but he only knew that she had good information that he could use of. She could be a frickin' agent, information brokers or other secret units. It's still vague so it's not certain that she knew about her identity.

Quote:
The world they live in, its a world what not everything its said, 101th is ready knows as ghost unit, so if you see a Military Unit arrival, which Commander implies cannot revel their IDs, plus the equipment's, resources, members and technology, like how many units of the armed forces have disposal for combat the mobile suits??, you don't need graphic arts to get at most likely clue what they coming from.
I think it's easier for us to make those connections since we have meta knowledge but the same couldn't be said to the characters. I mean, Tatsuya and Miyuki basically reek of 10 family but many people still hasn't noticed it. But then again, Katsuto almost got him

I was also under impression that Mayumi wouldn't really bother to check the unit since it doesn't has anything to do with her or her family (before she knew about Tatsuya, at least). She might be able to connect the dots just like you said later though since now she actually has the reason to investigate them. If she investigate the unit then she'll probably notices the connection between it and the Yotsuba. It means that she never made a proper investigation or she never made the connection in the first place.

Since Mayumi seems reluctant about investigating him, then maybe it's the former.

edit+
..After contemplating it a bit longer, I think I'm going to retract my statement that Mayumi doesn't know anything prior about the unit. The reason why the major kept it a secret must be because it'll be disadvantageous of him if Mayumi knows his unit, so Mayumi should already got major grasp about what the unit is. I still don't think that she knows Fujibayashi is in it though since there's no point in hiding it any longer to her if she already knows the unit.

oh and let's not continue this ..I'm not good at debating
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Last edited by Von Himmel; 2013-02-23 at 14:51. Reason: got something wrong
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Old 2013-02-23, 15:13   Link #2926
kagato3
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Originally Posted by waffler View Post
remember at the end of the past volume i think it said tatsuya will never fight the yotsuba maybe the other clans team up and destroy them?
Tats never really has to fight the Yotsuba once Miyuki takes over as head she will be the Yotsuba , unless the higher ups somehow belive she can be used as a figure head, and if they do I'm really starting to belive that his aunt is doing a rage against the system and clan ploy.
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Old 2013-02-23, 15:20   Link #2927
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Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post
Sorry, I really don't understand what you're trying to say here I feel as if we're talking about two different things.

My point is that based on that..summary paragraph, the USNA commander states that an aid from Yotsuba would cover up her mistakes. How could the Yotsuba aid her in any way without having a proper influence in the USNA? Will that let her still have positions in the USNA even after those mistakes or will they aid her to escape from them? Anyway, it's still a proof that the Yotsuba power could influence them.

Look, before this goes nowhere let me point out that I argued with you because you disagreed with me that Fujibayashi tried to hide her position, then you bring out the reason why she's not.

Frankly, you're under severe impression that a ghost unit would be so damn famous that every members of the 10th family would know about it. It's a ghost unit for a reason, people shouldn't know anything about them before they make a proper investigation or see them in person. There might be more agent that works in the shadow too, so people couldn't just immediately assumed that anyone working in that unit.

That is of course, until they see what the they're capable of in the Yokohama incident. Without this incident, I don't think anyone that never did proper investigation would realize that the people they know would be involved in that unit. Did Toshikazu investigate about the unit and Fujibayashi? He might've heard about the unit but he couldn't possibly make the connection. He could probably make out vague ideas, but I don't think it's enough to properly find out about her.

Seriously, what did you think all the conversation between him and Fujibayashi anyway? It's basically her giving away some information with unknown but reliable intel and Toshikazu doing the hard work with that information. He didn't know anything about some sort of unit that she worked in, but he only knew that she had good information that he could use of. She could be a frickin' agent, information brokers or other secret units. It's still vague so it's not certain that she knew about her identity.


I think it's easier for us to make those connections since we have meta knowledge but the same couldn't be said to the characters. I mean, Tatsuya and Miyuki basically reek of 10 family but many people still hasn't noticed it. But then again, Katsuto almost got him

I was also under impression that Mayumi wouldn't really bother to check the unit since it doesn't has anything to do with her or her family (before she knew about Tatsuya, at least). She might be able to connect the dots just like you said later though since now she actually has the reason to investigate them. If she investigate the unit then she'll probably notices the connection between it and the Yotsuba. It means that she never made a proper investigation or she never made the connection in the first place.

Since Mayumi seems reluctant about investigating him, then maybe it's the former.

edit+
..After contemplating it a bit longer, I think I'm going to retract my statement that Mayumi doesn't know anything prior about the unit. The reason why the major kept it a secret must be because it'll be disadvantageous of him if Mayumi knows his unit, so Mayumi should already got major grasp about what the unit is. I still don't think that she knows Fujibayashi is in it though since there's no point in hiding it any longer to her if she already knows the unit.

oh and let's not continue this ..I'm not good at debating
On the first point its quite simple: USNA Comander from Sirius Team was the latest adding to Yotsuba USNA contacts, they ready have and not only USNA, like when Maya reveals Tats actions (MB) on Asian Alliance Navy Base attack killed one of the 13th apostles.

On the 2nd: I not sure how familiar are you with the Law Enforcement and Military Community and how the rest of the World see them, is not every ghost Unit be famous, its their actions which produce echoes hard to cover and its not like their members will be known by simple actions, its the Unit which takes that role, 101th its compose by 2 Company (commonly about 150 people or so) and on Yokohama incident there's rawly 50 members, given this info its quite had keep information control on their actions, even the common, like drills, practices and obviously their actions, they usually covers with others units names, but you realize something happen when you see their equipment s and resources (like I said I commonly visit shooting ranges in rl), Toshikazu didn't pursue the matter cuz he don't need to in order to respect the pact he have with Kyoko, but his level of thrust reveal he ready have clues about Kyoko, otherwise he didn't summon that extensive Police force on Sunday, adding to this he knows about weapons, equipment and others, like Katsuto and others, so here come the obvious: You see People from "unidentified" Military Unit with flying mobile suit (flying CADs only have months since release and the first person apply on public was Tats) and the Officer say: "Here is the suit you design", with the previous background of Tats, what do you think Mayumi, Suzune and others will think??.
Its like to be all info of 101th participation in Yokohama incidents and Scorched Halloween will be tight close, due their actions, this at least inside the JSDF the gossips will run, look in the way of the Vamps arc summary its said the list of the possibly Japan 2nd Strategic Class wheres 15 persons and Tats was there.

So far looks like Mayumi don't like to get deeper on Tats family ties, cuz She think could hurt their relationship (SS Student Elections), so its more she contains herself than other issue.
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Old 2013-02-23, 15:49   Link #2928
blackwhite67
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Originally Posted by Ddraig View Post
Does he know that Tatsuya hate Yotsuba clan that if not because of Miyuki he would wipe them out from the face of the earth?
He doesn't know Tatsuya's specific background and even the Yotsuba don't know that last bit.

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Originally Posted by NeutralZero View Post
As long as the plan doesn't involve Miyuki the slightest bit then Tatsuya won't retaliate that much but if it did then Koichi better pray...
Tatsuya's already a monster even with handicap or while holding back...it will be another one side slaughter if he is to go against them
And unlike the Yotsuba, the Saegusa doesn't have someone to use as a shield to prevent Tatsuya from going against them...
The plan obviously involves Miyuki since it involves allowing armed, hostile forces to attack the students of First High of which she is a part of. So there is most certainly going to be retaliation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waffler View Post
remember at the end of the past volume i think it said tatsuya will never fight the yotsuba maybe the other clans team up and destroy them?
It said something like "Tatsuya didn't know it but there would never be a confrontation." It was more like foreshadowing.
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Old 2013-02-23, 15:58   Link #2929
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Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
It said something like "Tatsuya didn't know it but there would never be a confrontation." It was more like foreshadowing.
makes me think someone else is gonna kill Maya before anything can be done.
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Old 2013-02-23, 16:01   Link #2930
Von Himmel
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On the 2nd: I not sure how familiar are you with the Law Enforcement and Military Community and how the rest of the World see them, is not every ghost Unit be famous, its their actions which produce echoes hard to cover and its not like their members will be known by simple actions, its the Unit which takes that role
Huh that's cool.

...Though seriously, while I don't really care about it, you bring up interesting point. it's a fictional group either way, things bound to be different somewhat. Did you remember that there's once a debate about Tatsuya's decomposition and the science surrounding it in Jcafe? I've learnt not to limit myself with real life concept after reading those posts


Quote:
Toshikazu didn't pursue the matter cuz he don't need to in order to respect the pact he have with Kyoko, but his level of thrust reveal he ready have clues about Kyoko, otherwise he didn't summon that extensive Police force on Sunday, adding to this he knows about weapons, equipment and others, like Katsuto and others
What equipments? Did they go to war before the Yokohama incident? Did they supply the police units with 101 exclusive equipments or cutting edge technology? I don't think Toshikazu would realize it by looking at their equipments before the war. At the war though, he probably knew it.

At the very least, Toshikazu could only find out about her background by looking at her extensive knowledge, not equipments. Then again, she's the electron sorceress so having big intel shouldn't be something so surprising. Any units could gain many information if she's part of the unit.
Quote:
You see People from "unidentified" Military Unit with flying mobile suit (flying CADs only have months since release and the first person apply on public was Tats) and the Officer say: "Here is the suit you design", with the previous background of Tats, what do you think Mayumi, Suzune and others will think??.
Its like to be all info of 101th participation in Yokohama incidents and Scorched Halloween will be tight close, due their actions, this at least inside the JSDF the gossips will run, look in the way of the Vamps arc summary its said the list of the possibly Japan 2nd Strategic Class wheres 15 persons and Tats was there.
It's like they're not trying to hide it anymore. It's this retarded notion that the unit did that makes me believe that Mayumi has less knowledge instead.
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Old 2013-02-23, 16:33   Link #2931
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Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post
Huh that's cool.

...Though seriously, while I don't really care about it, you bring up interesting point. it's a fictional group either way, things bound to be different somewhat. Did you remember that there's once a debate about Tatsuya's decomposition and the science surrounding it in Jcafe? I've learnt not to limit myself with real life concept after reading those posts



What equipments? Did they go to war before the Yokohama incident? Did they supply the police units with 101 exclusive equipments or cutting edge technology? I don't think Toshikazu would realize it by looking at their equipments before the war. At the war though, he probably knew it.

At the very least, Toshikazu could only find out about her background by looking at her extensive knowledge, not equipments. Then again, she's the electron sorceress so having big intel shouldn't be something so surprising. Any units could gain many information if she's part of the unit.

It's like they're not trying to hide it anymore. It's this retarded notion that the unit did that makes me believe that Mayumi has less knowledge instead.
Yes, I remember that, but believe or not I mostly use my common sense learned on my rl professional field.

About Toshikazu: hes Heir of Chiba House, very, very close to Military and Police, plus they research on weapons tech, Isori House its close to them, take Orochimaru sword as example, my point is if Katsuto with only one look know Cptn Sanada affiliation, most likely Toshikazu too, adding his Police work experience on the matter, equipment, weapons, resources and procedures usually tell you without words whom they're are, like say 10 years ago, you saw USA soldiers with AR 15 or HK MP 5, you knew they're not common soldiers, so JSDF in MKnR could need to have active some like 2 millions persons (its basic math involves Military human resources needed), its wrote somewhere, apart from 101th there's Saegusa affiliated Military groups, Chiba House offer as assist and training in close combat and have to be like that with other Houses, but still they eclose most actions in Kanto Region, so you have the same spaces for training s, drills, exercises and others for mostly of the top elite groups in the same region, this made almost unavoidable they see each other, even if use masks, mobile suits or others, this its why its called Community, so you know people here and there, and you known what kind of weapons or equipment often use, so at the end, one group using cutting edge tech weapons will leave the chances to really few ones, that's why I believe Toshikazu and others don't really need words to know Kyoko and Tats 101th affiliation.
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Old 2013-02-23, 16:39   Link #2932
Von Himmel
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Which is pretty stupid considering that Fujibayashi never shows any weapon prior to the war. I didn't talk about him being unable to see her unit in the war or after the war, I was talking when she was with him in vol 6 where she actually tries to hide her background.

Did you even read my post?
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Old 2013-02-23, 17:03   Link #2933
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Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post
Which is pretty stupid considering that Fujibayashi never shows any weapon prior to the war. I didn't talk about him being unable to see her unit in the war or after the war, I was talking when she was with him in vol 6 where she actually tries to hide her background.

Did you even read my post?
I based not only on Toshikazu / Kyoko interaction, cuz will limit the view and its not even enough space for the author to give every character the point of everything, I take on mind:

A. Kyoko public known records, even gossips around her (very well told by Haruka review), her family backgrounds, and skills show during the encounters with Toshikazu, its not weird to think he knows about Haruka was thinking, not from Haruka, more like its common knowledge.

B. Toshikazu self experience as Chiba Heir, Police Inspector and his interactions with Military and Law Enforcement Community People, so based on this, he can guess very close what really are Kyoko and most probably before Sunday events, he was on the point She was on top Elite Military but didn't have elements to bullseye on 101th.

About how you guessing Person comes and doings, its not only weapons, I used only that but you see manners, patterns, culture, knowledge (general and specific, like when Mayumi test Tats with the bodyguard), clothes, shoes, way they walk, stand, salute and talk.
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Old 2013-02-23, 17:44   Link #2934
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^ I'm more amused Kudou didn't say anything considering that his own granddaughter is part of the 101..
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Old 2013-02-23, 19:10   Link #2935
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^ I'm more amused Kudou didn't say anything considering that his own granddaughter is part of the 101..
probably he just don't want to meddle Yotsuba Vs Saegusa because both Maya and Koichi were his student long time ago.


this is going to be interesting, who will win the cold war between Maya and Koichi
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Old 2013-02-23, 19:29   Link #2936
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^^ tatsuya will blow them up with mb
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Old 2013-02-23, 20:16   Link #2937
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
^ I'm more amused Kudou didn't say anything considering that his own granddaughter is part of the 101..
Maybe it has something to do with why her name is Fujibayshi and not Kudou, despite being his granddaughter, she is not part of the Kudou clan (unless Fujibayashi is a branch family).
He has to act in the best interest for the Kudou clan, if it means not interferring with Saegusa's plan, he won't lift a finger even if his granddaughter is involved, that's my impression of him.
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Old 2013-02-23, 20:27   Link #2938
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^ I'm more amused Kudou didn't say anything considering that his own granddaughter is part of the 101..
Why does it matter? She may be 101, but Koichi's plan simply involves revealing Tatsuya's identity as 101. It's not like it would actually hurt her.

On further thought, Koichi wouldn't reveal Tatsuya as 101 specifically, but just as part of secret military. The government would be pretty mad if he revealed the existence of a military unit that is supposed to be top-secret.

Last edited by blackwhite67; 2013-02-23 at 20:37.
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Old 2013-02-23, 21:26   Link #2939
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Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
Why does it matter? She may be 101, but Koichi's plan simply involves revealing Tatsuya's identity as 101. It's not like it would actually hurt her.

On further thought, Koichi wouldn't reveal Tatsuya as 101 specifically, but just as part of secret military. The government would be pretty mad if he revealed the existence of a military unit that is supposed to be top-secret.
???? from the summary i think the idea was like this.

Koichi plans to reveal the existence of the student who’s in 1st High and is part of the 101 Battalion then he would blame the attack on 1st High is because the 101st Battalion is close to the Yotsuba.
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Old 2013-02-23, 21:35   Link #2940
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Originally Posted by henzaeroz View Post
???? from the summary i think the idea was like this.

Koichi plans to reveal the existence of the student who’s in 1st High and is part of the 101 Battalion then he would blame the attack on 1st High is because the 101st Battalion is close to the Yotsuba.
the question is how will this reveal a connection between Yotsuba and the 101st? Tatsuya isn't going to use his true abilities in front of everyone in the school. I doubt the 101st will get involved if they are a secretive organization.
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