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Old 2013-04-13, 16:54   Link #4121
waffler
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lina is the strongest magician in the us right? so if tatsuya beat her with his seal on what does that make him lol
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Old 2013-04-13, 18:16   Link #4122
bludvein
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Strategic-class doesn't necessarily mean strongest in interpersonal-combat. Tats isn't even the strongest in his unit for instance and Mio(Japan's other walking WMD) would be a relative weakling up close.
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Old 2013-04-13, 18:19   Link #4123
waffler
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tatsuya can turn everyone in his unit to dust o.o
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Old 2013-04-13, 18:23   Link #4124
babbo3d
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Originally Posted by waffler View Post
tatsuya can turn everyone in his unit to dust o.o
Is not always about the power like when Hatory lost to tat.
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Old 2013-04-13, 18:24   Link #4125
Awrya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
Strategic-class doesn't necessarily mean strongest in interpersonal-combat. Tats isn't even the strongest in his unit for instance and Mio(Japan's other walking WMD) would be a relative weakling up close.
She's probably the strongest magician in USNA.
Spoiler for From Web Novel:

But the author may have changed things a bit in the LN.
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Old 2013-04-13, 18:39   Link #4126
blackwhite67
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Originally Posted by waffler View Post
lina is the strongest magician in the us right? so if tatsuya beat her with his seal on what does that make him lol
It should be noted that he only won because she didn't have the heart to go for the kill.
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Old 2013-04-13, 18:47   Link #4127
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‏‎If he really aimed to kill her he wouldn't give her the chance to even fight:just desintegrate her and walk away.‎
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Old 2013-04-13, 19:08   Link #4128
millie10468
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Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
It should be noted that he only won because she didn't have the heart to go for the kill.
It might just be me... but I don't think it's right or fair to give Lina credit for losing because "she didn't have the heart to go for the kill." A loss is a loss, regardless of why. Besides, choosing not to go for the kill can also be included in a fighter's repertoire of skills and not using it is a gross miscalculation on her part. We'll never know exactly what would have happened if she had fought with the intent to kill and assuming she's stronger than him as a result just doesn't seem right with me.

Am I making any sense? I feel like what I'm trying to say and what I wrote are a little incompatible
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Old 2013-04-13, 19:13   Link #4129
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‏‎If he really aimed to kill her he wouldn't give her the chance to even fight:just desintegrate her and walk away.‎
Exactly, it's like people are forgetting his one-on-one combat skills can be seen as a supplement to his other powers and the very fact that he chooses to fight one-on-one is his handicap.
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Old 2013-04-13, 19:20   Link #4130
blackwhite67
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Originally Posted by millie10468 View Post
It might just be me... but I don't think it's right or fair to give Lina credit for losing because "she didn't have the heart to go for the kill." A loss is a loss, regardless of why. Besides, choosing not to go for the kill can also be included in a fighter's repertoire of skills and not using it is a gross miscalculation on her part. We'll never know exactly what would have happened if she had fought with the intent to kill and assuming she's stronger than him as a result just doesn't seem right with me.

Am I making any sense? I feel like what I'm trying to say and what I wrote are a little incompatible
Perfectly and I actually agree with you. When I made that post I was just saying it as a note. To streamline what you're trying to say, the inability to bring oneself to kill is a weakness and no excuse for losing. Also, Tatsuya stated that had Lina had the intent to kill he would have lost and that was the only reason he won.
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Old 2013-04-13, 19:41   Link #4131
millie10468
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Perfectly and I actually agree with you. When I made that post I was just saying it as a note. To streamline what you're trying to say, the inability to bring oneself to kill is a weakness and no excuse for losing. Also, Tatsuya stated that had Lina had the intent to kill he would have lost and that was the only reason he won.
I get that part. That assumption is one the authors have fostered so far. Which makes me wonder why they would go to the trouble of creating such a strong character and then riddle him with the ability to lose. I kind of like my characters either super strong with no weaknesses or blatant weaknesses I know from the very beginning.
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Old 2013-04-13, 19:42   Link #4132
Jirachier
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Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
It should be noted that he only won because she didn't have the heart to go for the kill.
tbh the reason she lost wasn't because she wasn't going for the kill because let's be honest, Tatsuya only destructive magic is also extremely lethal and he was also trying his best not to kill her, so this cancels each other, the variable here is the fact that she gave him the opportunity to surprise her when she wasn't attacking him when he was talking about her CAD, and even if she had attacked him instead of waiting the outcome then would've have been a decisive defeat for him, well it might have been but it might not, we can't know since such a situation did not occur.
Also Tatsuya seal was on so the outcome of the fight would've been completely different in such a situation.
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Old 2013-04-13, 20:57   Link #4133
cyberdemon
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Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
Perfectly and I actually agree with you. When I made that post I was just saying it as a note. To streamline what you're trying to say, the inability to bring oneself to kill is a weakness and no excuse for losing. Also, Tatsuya stated that had Lina had the intent to kill he would have lost and that was the only reason he won.
A bad habit of Tatsuya always thinking he would lose. He thought he would lose to Misaki and we all know how that turned out. It's not a great idea to take his ideas of losing seriously.
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Old 2013-04-13, 21:00   Link #4134
Xacual
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A bad habit of Tatsuya always thinking he would lose. He thought he would lose to Misaki and we all know how that turned out. It's not a great idea to take his ideas of losing seriously.
He thought he might lose against Misaki because he was under a ton of limitations though due to the competition rules and all the people watching. Not really the same thing.
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Old 2013-04-13, 21:21   Link #4135
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He thought he might lose against Misaki because he was under a ton of limitations though due to the competition rules and all the people watching. Not really the same thing.
yes Tat's already lose when he use restoration ( he limit himself ) but of course Masaki was about to be disqualified for violating the rules.
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Old 2013-04-13, 21:32   Link #4136
blackwhite67
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tbh the reason she lost wasn't because she wasn't going for the kill because let's be honest, Tatsuya only destructive magic is also extremely lethal and he was also trying his best not to kill her, so this cancels each other, the variable here is the fact that she gave him the opportunity to surprise her when she wasn't attacking him when he was talking about her CAD, and even if she had attacked him instead of waiting the outcome then would've have been a decisive defeat for him, well it might have been but it might not, we can't know since such a situation did not occur.
Also Tatsuya seal was on so the outcome of the fight would've been completely different in such a situation.
If Tatsuya could've just used his mist dispersal to incapacitate Lina on the spot, he would have done so instead of dragging things out. He didn't because he didn't have the opportunity to do so. Besides, you're misunderstanding something. Decomposition is destructive, but due to its nature he only needs a single shot to incapacitate or kill an opponent. Killing or incapacitating doesn't make a difference on his effectiveness in combat.

Also, the variable you speak of was her lack of resolve and the analysis of the battle was given by Tatsuya factoring in his own capabilities. If he said that Lina would've won then she would've won.

Quote:
As he looks down at her unconscious body, he says she is not cut out for the military and should leave. It was her naivety which allowed him to win the battle. Her first shot with Heavy Metal Burst disintegrated his right arm and disrupted Gram Dispersion, but if she had not been controlling it, his entire body may have been rendered immobile. If that happened, he would have regenerated
immediately, but he would have been unable to catch her by surprise like he did with his right arm. What's more, she did not need to listen to him speak of the FAE theory. Even if it was classified information, she should not have been shaken. Also, she moved Brionac to aim at his knee, which gave up crucial time. He walks away, carrying Lina with him.
Can you believe that? If the author hadn't written that off as her lack of resolve, I'd be inclined to criticize the author for losing his practical touch. This ain't some cheesy shounen battle where people actually take the time to explain their techniques or yell out the name of their attack.

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Originally Posted by Xacual View Post
He thought he might lose against Misaki because he was under a ton of limitations though due to the competition rules and all the people watching. Not really the same thing.
Masaki, Juumonji, Lina. All his analyses with battles against these people were made factoring in his restrictions and current limitations. I believe-no, I know that Tatsuya would win if he ever went full force against these third-rate guys. I'm just saying that under those circumstances, the he only won because Lina was too soft.
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Old 2013-04-13, 21:38   Link #4137
babbo3d
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I say that tatsuya probably would have lost because he put himself in a really unfavorable position. Tatsuya strength is magic sniping but he went and show himself within sight range to a magician with talent equal to Miyuki's, with military training, who's forte was speed, and most importantly her Strategic class magic was meant for anti-personnel combat with a weapon made specially for it like third eye. This is clearly a situation in which Tatsuya could fight to his best.
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Old 2013-04-13, 21:43   Link #4138
millie10468
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Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
If Tatsuya could've just used his mist dispersal to incapacitate Lina on the spot, he would have done so instead of dragging things out.
Are you saying there was no logical period, before and during the fight, that he could have used mist dispersal successfully but chose not to due to his limitations? Because I believe without his limitations, there would have been no fight in the first place.
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Old 2013-04-13, 21:48   Link #4139
Jirachier
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Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
If Tatsuya could've just used his mist dispersal to incapacitate Lina on the spot, he would have done so instead of dragging things out. He didn't because he didn't have the opportunity to do so. Besides, you're misunderstanding something. Decomposition is destructive, but due to its nature he only needs a single shot to incapacitate or kill an opponent. Killing or incapacitating doesn't make a difference on his effectiveness in combat.

Also, the variable you speak of was her lack of resolve and the analysis of the battle was given by Tatsuya factoring in his own capabilities. If he said that Lina would've won then she would've won.
Tatsuya was factoring in his own abilities at the time, he was talking about that specific battle against her in which he had no way of accessing half of his powers.
And it's not that simple to use Mist Dispersion, yeah he can use it on just a part of her but that's an extremely difficult magic and against someone of Lina's caliber it's most definitely very difficult to hit her where he wants(she's not going to just sit there and let him hit her, she's a moving target) to otherwise he might get her in the head or something and she will die.

Tatsuya was caught off guard, she pulled a CAD that he didn't expect her to even have, he didn't want to kill her, he couldn't use half of his power. I'm not saying he would've 100% won otherwise, what i'm saying is, the outcome of that battle between them if it was to death and both could use all of their abilities is unknown.
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Old 2013-04-13, 21:53   Link #4140
babbo3d
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Let's end it here. This is a endless spiral we been here many times before and no one ever wins it just more heated and heated because everyone thinks they are right and them it gets personal, so let's drop it.
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