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Old 2013-06-28, 16:31   Link #5161
Ophis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
The system of magic in this series makes this pointless. Tatsuya has the ability to cause nuclear explosions at will. Lina has the ability to fire a localized solar flare. At full power their magic is one-hit kill, no exceptions.

Actually, it's one-hit two kill (at least) since using Lina's magic at full power would kill her and Tatsuya needs a satellite to increase his range to the point he doesn't vaporize himself.

The attack magic so far exceeds the defensive capabilities of the characters that comparing strengths has no meaning.
what I meant for full power was Tatsuya fighting using all of his skills and magic. Lina was using her strategic-class magic so she was fighting with full power, Tatsuya had not even used Flash Cast....

Spoiler for web novel:


Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
Tatsuya would also need Trident to do that.
Trident for what?
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Last edited by Ophis; 2013-06-28 at 17:49.
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Old 2013-06-28, 18:34   Link #5162
Quol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophis View Post
Trident for what?
For long range mist dispersal (short range would destroy him and everyone close to him)

Also does flash cast make his magic have a lag of 0.0 seconds or just really close to that
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Old 2013-06-28, 19:05   Link #5163
kagato3
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I may be misunderstanding things but doesn't Flash casting have a few drawbacks such as he can only use it to cast spells that were preloaded in his brain durring the operation (and would not include his unique magics since he didn't develop them until later) as well as he uses it to emulate real casting by useing the most basic forms and adding them together but can't do more then 5 steps (not bad for combat but pretty much sucks for everything else.) and each step makes it slower.
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Old 2013-06-28, 19:20   Link #5164
Ophis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quol View Post
For long range mist dispersal (short range would destroy him and everyone close to him)

Also does flash cast make his magic have a lag of 0.0 seconds or just really close to that
eh? isnt "Mist Dispersal" the name of his decomposition magic? he can use decomposition without "Trident", "Trident" is just a CAD that allows him to cast 3 consecutive magics.

Spoiler for volume 4 - chapter 12:


In this chapter it explains pretty well about "Trident".
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Last edited by Ophis; 2013-06-28 at 19:22. Reason: missed some things
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Old 2013-06-28, 19:22   Link #5165
blackwhite67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophis View Post
what I meant for full power was Tatsuya fighting using all of his skills and magic. Lina was using her strategic-class magic so she was fighting with full power, Tatsuya had not even used Flash Cast....

Spoiler for web novel:




Trident for what?
Tatsuya stated that Kazama and Yanagi could beat him if he didn't use Trident.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
I may be misunderstanding things but doesn't Flash casting have a few drawbacks such as he can only use it to cast spells that were preloaded in his brain durring the operation (and would not include his unique magics since he didn't develop them until later) as well as he uses it to emulate real casting by useing the most basic forms and adding them together but can't do more then 5 steps (not bad for combat but pretty much sucks for everything else.) and each step makes it slower.
No. Actually, Flash Cast can be used for ANY spell of five or less steps. The reason it is five or less is because Tatsuya cannot memorize any more than that. The operation that gave him Flash Cast didn't pre-load any spells. It gave him the ability to memorize any spell of five or less processes.
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Old 2013-06-28, 19:26   Link #5166
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Oh, my bad i was thinking of "Third Eye"
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
No. Actually, Flash Cast can be used for ANY spell of five or less steps. The reason it is five or less is because Tatsuya cannot memorize any more than that. The operation that gave him Flash Cast didn't pre-load any spells. It gave him the ability to memorize any spell of five or less processes.
But does flash cast only reduce the time needed for spells or completely negate the need to wait (using spells at 0.0 sec as opposed to 0.25 sec or something)
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Old 2013-06-28, 19:36   Link #5167
questmas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post
Now I think this is what makes Tatsuya a bit different.. you see, whenever someone see a math question and try to answer it, they still need to calculate it in their brains before getting the result. What I believe is that for Tatsuya, all the questions AND answers are already implanted in his brain. As a result, he can give a result WITHOUT doing any calculation..

To summarize, I don't think not using CAD means that he/she is using flash cast. IIRC there's a line that mention that magicians can actually use magic without it but it will take too long to cast or something.. and I also vaguely remember something about ancient magician who rarely use it though I'm not so sure about this.

What flash cast ultimately is that no-casting spell, 0 delay, etc
So its sort of like memorizing the answer to a math question so you dont have to calculate it again when you need to do it? Also, where does it say that the operation implanted all the magic sequences into his head? I see people saying that alot but I dont remember it... all I see about the the operation did is

"The Artificial Magician Plan. A project to implant in the consciousness of a person who isn’t a magician, a man-made magic operation area and thus give him the abilities of a magician." -from v8 c14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windknight111 View Post
Isnt it more of the fact that they can activate magic without CAD if its their specialty? As in like Miyuki's Cocytus which she activated with a mere hand outstretching motion.
I always thought Maya's magic seemed to flashy to be something innate, but that would definitely explain it.

IIRC, it was stated that the Yotsuba wanted Tatsuya to keep flash cast a secret (rather than the battalion) and there was no mention that Tatsuya got flash cast from the experiment (only the ability to use the other 6 types of magic). That made me think that flash cast was a secret Yotsuba skill that was taught to Tatsuya rather than a special skill that only Tatsuya knew.

Anyway, I'll assume only Tatsuya can use flash cast for now since no other character has used it yet. Actually, where does Tatsuya even use flash cast? I cant remember any parts off the top of my head, I only remember it being mentioned that he could.
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Old 2013-06-28, 19:54   Link #5168
Ophis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by questmas View Post
IIRC, it was stated that the Yotsuba wanted Tatsuya to keep flash cast a secret (rather than the battalion) and there was no mention that Tatsuya got flash cast from the experiment (only the ability to use the other 6 types of magic). That made me think that flash cast was a secret Yotsuba skill that was taught to Tatsuya rather than a special skill that only Tatsuya knew.
I think that Flash Cast was a technique developed by the Yotsuba but no one could actually use this in a practical way. Even for Tatsuya 5 steps is the limit, so to a normal person I think they need to do preparations before hand and can only use 1 ou 2 steps. I think that Tatsuya is the only one capable of using Flash Cast in combat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by questmas View Post
Anyway, I'll assume only Tatsuya can use flash cast for now since no other character has used it yet. Actually, where does Tatsuya even use flash cast? I cant remember any parts off the top of my head, I only remember it being mentioned that he could.
Volume 5 chapter "Summer Break".
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Old 2013-06-28, 19:56   Link #5169
Quol
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I see magic as a math problem thats like;
"Using 13 steps come to the number 4809, starting from 1."
And you could do it in your head but it would take time, however with a calculator (CAD) that is preset with the steps it would be a lot quicker.

Flash Cast is a badly made calculator that can only do 5 steps or lower to come up with a number and nothing more detailed. (However unlike the previous ones its always with you.)
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Old 2013-06-28, 20:09   Link #5170
Von Himmel
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Quote:
So its sort of like memorizing the answer to a math question so you dont have to calculate it again when you need to do it? Also, where does it say that the operation implanted all the magic sequences into his head? I see people saying that alot but I dont remember it... all I see about the the operation did is
I never said that... I think? I meant that the with the analogy, all the calculation is already implanted in his brain so he can just give the result easily. However, the operation doesn't make him got implanted all the magic sequence in the world so he could just cast it instantly. It gives him the ability to remember it, implanting it in his brain and instantly cast it.

I think it's like photographic memories in some cases ;( Unlike normal people, he's doing math question by remembering the question and answers to calculate the answer. He can manually calculate it by himself but he's not good at it.

So it's like, his mother gave him an artificial photographic memory so that he can do math
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Old 2013-06-28, 20:43   Link #5171
waffler
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from what i read , heavy metal burst sounds kind of like mist dispersal they both disentegrate things then couldnt mist dispersal be strategic magic too??
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Old 2013-06-28, 21:18   Link #5172
Ophis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffler View Post
from what i read , heavy metal burst sounds kind of like mist dispersal they both disentegrate things then couldnt mist dispersal be strategic magic too??
No, "Heavy Metal Burst" is a magic of pure destructive power.

Spoiler for web novel:
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Old 2013-06-28, 21:19   Link #5173
blackwhite67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quol View Post
Oh, my bad i was thinking of "Third Eye"
But does flash cast only reduce the time needed for spells or completely negate the need to wait (using spells at 0.0 sec as opposed to 0.25 sec or something)
Yes. Casting a spell is a conscious process for magicians. As a result, it is limited to conscious speeds. The best you could hope for is something like 0.25 sec which is the limits of human reflexes. However, Flash Cast, while initiated by a conscious command, is mostly subconscious. While exact numbers haven't been given, it wouldn't be a stretch to say that Tatsuya can cast spells with Flash Cast faster than any other magician.

Quote:
Originally Posted by questmas View Post
IIRC, it was stated that the Yotsuba wanted Tatsuya to keep flash cast a secret (rather than the battalion) and there was no mention that Tatsuya got flash cast from the experiment (only the ability to use the other 6 types of magic). That made me think that flash cast was a secret Yotsuba skill that was taught to Tatsuya rather than a special skill that only Tatsuya knew.

Anyway, I'll assume only Tatsuya can use flash cast for now since no other character has used it yet. Actually, where does Tatsuya even use flash cast? I cant remember any parts off the top of my head, I only remember it being mentioned that he could.
Flash Cast was the product of a chip implanted in his brain by the Yotsuba and Miya's mental interference magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waffler View Post
from what i read , heavy metal burst sounds kind of like mist dispersal they both disentegrate things then couldnt mist dispersal be strategic magic too??
In theory, any spell could be a strategic-class magic as long as the caster could cast it on a large enough scale to devastate say a city. Tatsuya cannot cast Mist Dispersal on a large enough scale to destroy a city. The biggest object he's been shown to be able to decompose was a truck and bipedial tanks.

Tatsuya is "irregular" in this regard as he does not possess the ability to cast magic on a strategic-scale like other strategic-class magicians. Note the mechanics of his Material Burst. Decomposing a miniscule amount of matter to cause insane amounts of destruction. If you read further into it, this fits Tatsuya's theme and MO. Achieving high quality results with below-average skills.
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Old 2013-06-28, 22:14   Link #5174
Quol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
In theory, any spell could be a strategic-class magic as long as the caster could cast it on a large enough scale to devastate say a city. Tatsuya cannot cast Mist Dispersal on a large enough scale to destroy a city. The biggest object he's been shown to be able to decompose was a truck and bipedial tanks.

Tatsuya is "irregular" in this regard as he does not possess the ability to cast magic on a strategic-scale like other strategic-class magicians. Note the mechanics of his Material Burst. Decomposing a miniscule amount of matter to cause insane amounts of destruction. If you read further into it, this fits Tatsuya's theme and MO. Achieving high quality results with below-average skills.
My god...imagine if Tatsyua could Decompose entire cities
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Old 2013-06-28, 22:31   Link #5175
questmas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophis View Post
I think that Flash Cast was a technique developed by the Yotsuba but no one could actually use this in a practical way. Even for Tatsuya 5 steps is the limit, so to a normal person I think they need to do preparations before hand and can only use 1 ou 2 steps. I think that Tatsuya is the only one capable of using Flash Cast in combat.
Even if its one or two steps, thats still useful, you can fling someone against a wall and knock them out with just one step

Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post
I think it's like photographic memories in some cases ;( Unlike normal people, he's doing math question by remembering the question and answers to calculate the answer.
Well, I just dont see how other people cant do that.
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Old 2013-06-28, 22:37   Link #5176
blackwhite67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by questmas View Post
Even if its one or two steps, thats still useful, you can fling someone against a wall and knock them out with just one step



Well, I just dont see how other people cant do that.
In that sense, Tatsuya could have easily kicked Hattori's ass in volume 1 with Flash Cast.
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Old 2013-06-28, 22:39   Link #5177
Quol
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Originally Posted by questmas View Post
Well, I just dont see how other people cant do that.
From the limited people that they could experiment on (because even the military deemed it too unethical, and they had to keep it a secret) i'm pretty sure only Tatsuya was able to make it a success.

Even then it did not live up to what was expected though. So its not that only Tatsuya can use it, its more of the fact that out of the people they used, only Tatsuya was able to actually "learn" it.
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Old 2013-06-28, 22:45   Link #5178
Von Himmel
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Quote:
Well, I just dont see how other people cant do that.
That's the case in math, in magic which involves complex calculation it wouldn't be simply like remembering multiplication or 1+1 question.

Also from blackwhite:
Quote:
Yes. Casting a spell is a conscious process for magicians. As a result, it is limited to conscious speeds. The best you could hope for is something like 0.25 sec which is the limits of human reflexes. However, Flash Cast, while initiated by a conscious command, is mostly subconscious. While exact numbers haven't been given, it wouldn't be a stretch to say that Tatsuya can cast spells with Flash Cast faster than any other magician.
0.25 sec is still pretty damn fast and in a sense, instantaneous. Doing it without CAD is a major feat (though I doubt that they don't manipulate the CAD in some way before it), but not in any way the same as flash cast.
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Old 2013-06-28, 22:48   Link #5179
waffler
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ohh i think i kind of get flash cast now, so the school magic wants you to show your work and go through all the steps and tatsuya can skip to the last step and perform magic as good as course 1 but since he cant show work, he has to be course 2 something like that?
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Old 2013-06-28, 23:11   Link #5180
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Nope Flash cast is a cheat, it bypass activation sequence like 1+1= 2 but flash cast its like you arrive at the answer 2 already its like mental math!!

@waffler
he had to keep it a secret after all, the only magic Tatsuya required to use flash cast is other magicians magic thats why the Yotsuba experimented on him, bside Tatsuya is a BS magician so I doubt that without the calculation device he cant use proper magic!!

Who need flash cast when he got "Trident" already who can cast 3 decomposition magic in one cast of a 0.012343456 secs!


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"In other words, we Magicians are con artists out to ruin the world?"

"The stronger the Magician, the more likely he’s a crook."
He's a an irregular meaning a cheat to the system,..more like a virus.... Tatsuya is a con artist thats out to ruin the world! (by Erika) =]
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