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Old 2012-05-02, 02:23   Link #681
potchip
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This is a fairly cynical series and I find the author very patronising to the readership..Central premise an imbal MC impossibly repressed by design then repeatedly plays the the same card. It's essentially a variation of the 'actual badass pretend to be wuss' device that gets injected after every powerup cycle common in shounen, and turned it into one full series. It really kills any potential suspense.

I suppose you can describe the MC as badass and because he has 0 EQ he will always pretend to not have an awareness of his badassness nor develop in anyway. That may mean he's even more of a badass to some. The only somewhat interesting part is in an effort to justify MC's impossible mental state (which is a bit like circular logic), there's some 'edgyness' to his character as something appears off, like a psychopath. I hope he turns into one, would make this 100x more interesting.

Can sort of understand why it may be popular but there's really nothing 'skilful' about the writing..
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Old 2012-05-02, 03:19   Link #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potchip View Post
This is a fairly cynical series and I find the author very patronising to the readership..Central premise an imbal MC impossibly repressed by design then repeatedly plays the the same card. It's essentially a variation of the 'actual badass pretend to be wuss' device that gets injected after every powerup cycle common in shounen, and turned it into one full series. It really kills any potential suspense.

I suppose you can describe the MC as badass and because he has 0 EQ he will always pretend to not have an awareness of his badassness nor develop in anyway. That may mean he's even more of a badass to some. The only somewhat interesting part is in an effort to justify MC's impossible mental state (which is a bit like circular logic), there's some 'edgyness' to his character as something appears off, like a psychopath. I hope he turns into one, would make this 100x more interesting.

Can sort of understand why it may be popular but there's really nothing 'skilful' about the writing..
People getting sick of hot-blooded shounen archetype who runs around screaming power of friendship, justice, etc. or the bumbling idiot harem lead that always somehow "accidentally" gropes his female companions and possibly undress them.

Tatsuya is like Hei (DtB). Cold and calculating. Not much emotion I suppose but entertaining to follow.
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Old 2012-05-02, 05:13   Link #683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potchip View Post
This is a fairly cynical series and I find the author very patronising to the readership..Central premise an imbal MC impossibly repressed by design then repeatedly plays the the same card. It's essentially a variation of the 'actual badass pretend to be wuss' device that gets injected after every powerup cycle common in shounen, and turned it into one full series. It really kills any potential suspense.

I suppose you can describe the MC as badass and because he has 0 EQ he will always pretend to not have an awareness of his badassness nor develop in anyway. That may mean he's even more of a badass to some. The only somewhat interesting part is in an effort to justify MC's impossible mental state (which is a bit like circular logic), there's some 'edgyness' to his character as something appears off, like a psychopath. I hope he turns into one, would make this 100x more interesting.

Can sort of understand why it may be popular but there's really nothing 'skilful' about the writing..
Have you actually read the book, or just summaries or spoilers? I'm not sure what you mean by 'skillful'. Are you talking about writing in terms of language? Or story? Or what? I will be quite amused if you can judge an author's skill by not reading the book.

One of the strengths of the story is in the setting, and like I mentioned before somewhere, this is a very descriptive series and while some have commented the descriptions to be excessive, there are a lot many who find it very appealing. The 'outcomes' are indeed predictable. You know that the MC is going to own everyone. You know that the MC is going get a powerup, or rather, he already has a powerup. But yet, despite that, the story is very addictive to read. Perhaps, that's called skill?
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Old 2012-05-02, 07:07   Link #684
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Tatsuya doesn't need more power up Lare. His already too much over powered. We need a good contender or enemy than another shounen power up.
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Old 2012-05-02, 08:07   Link #685
potchip
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I might have read at the beginning but is more along the lines of 'scanning' about the rest - because reading carefully does not yield anything extra from the writing itself, you get the general gist and pattern of things, know exactly what the author is pushing for and just scan for those crumbs.

The patterns:
Constant put-down by MC himself, and the world setting at large, building up this sense injustice done to the MC unto the readership, and further enhanced by the trust from the 'inner circle' of MC's friends. End result is the gleeful anticipation of MC's ultimate vindication.

Things happen, MC proves to be OP on technicalities, never reveals full strength, releases the tension of injustice, yet stubbornly the MC himself/the rest of the setting resumes the same pattern, no learning, no development, same character, new enemies to surprise.

Rinse and repeat.

Occasionally throw in how MC's sister is perfect, yet believes MC is even greater (and some sis-con/bro-con elements as per standard LN), how his female 'friends' (as per standard LN harem) are all somewhat special, but similarly maligned, all builds up this 'us' vs the world mentally. Curiously what is this series trying to appeals to? The Chuunibyou in us? That feeling of:
'I'm (the MC is) talented, if I only cared about such and such?'
'I'm (the MC is) special, people are not seeing it but one day they will?'

I'm not disputing the concept is mildly addictive. Though I'm simply point out the writing is not much more from your standard tear-jerker soap plot twists that whenever things are on the up, something bad will happen, predictably, and cynically playing the audience. Granted it is harsh to single this series out given most LNs attempt to do the same. The general readability is poor and I can't see it being intentional hence my comment about not 'skilled' in the literary sense.

Last edited by potchip; 2012-05-02 at 08:20.
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Old 2012-05-02, 08:24   Link #686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potchip View Post
This is a fairly cynical series and I find the author very patronising to the readership..Central premise an imbal MC impossibly repressed by design then repeatedly plays the the same card. It's essentially a variation of the 'actual badass pretend to be wuss' device that gets injected after every powerup cycle common in shounen, and turned it into one full series. It really kills any potential suspense.
Makes no sense whatsoever. Especially since there is no powerup cycle to begin with - this show is NO standard shounen. Therefore, extrapolating what the show will do based on a wrong assumption is pretty futile.

Quote:
Can sort of understand why it may be popular but there's really nothing 'skilful' about the writing..
The setting is interesting, the characters are interesting and lively, and the show cannot be classified in the usual way. I enjoy reading it. Pretty skillful in my book.
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Old 2012-05-02, 08:37   Link #687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potchip View Post
I might have read at the beginning but is more along the lines of 'scanning' about the rest - because reading carefully does not yield anything extra from the writing itself, you get the general gist and pattern of things, know exactly what the author is pushing for and just scan for those crumbs.

The patterns:
Constant put-down by MC himself, and the world setting at large, building up this sense injustice done to the MC unto the readership, and further enhanced by the trust from the 'inner circle' of MC's friends. End result is the gleeful anticipation of MC's ultimate vindication.

Things happen, MC proves to be OP on technicalities, never reveals full strength, releases the tension of injustice, yet stubbornly the MC himself/the rest of the setting resumes the same pattern, no learning, no development, same character, new enemies to surprise.

Rinse and repeat.

Occasionally throw in how MC's sister is perfect, yet believes MC is even greater (and some sis-con/bro-con elements as per standard LN), how his female 'friends' (as per standard LN harem) are all somewhat special, but similarly maligned, all builds up this 'us' vs the world mentally. Curiously what is this series trying to appeals to? The Chuunibyou in us? That feeling of:
'I'm (the MC is) talented, if I only cared about such and such?'
'I'm (the MC is) special, people are not seeing it but one day they will?'

I'm not disputing the concept is mildly addictive. Though I'm simply point out the writing is not much more from your standard tear-jerker soap plot twists that whenever things are on the up, something bad will happen, predictably, and cynically playing the audience. Granted it is harsh to single this series out given most LNs attempt to do the same. The general readability is poor and I can't see it being intentional hence my comment about not 'skilled' in the literary sense.
The problem is that the story isnt going the way you are describing it.
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Old 2012-05-02, 09:17   Link #688
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That's good, could be something to look forward to then..
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Old 2012-05-02, 09:57   Link #689
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potchip: It's not like everyone is against the MC and his merry band of friends, so much as it is a set group of 300 people (the Course 1 Students), and it's not like all of his friends are strong, placed unjustly into their position, though it's a bit difficult for me to say anything against that. I do agree that Tatsuya is overpowered. There should be some kind of limit imposed by the author rather than the story.

I don't think Tatsuya looks down on himself, either. It might sound that way from the spoilers, but when reading the story, you'll find that he regrets it when he has to put his skills down. He believes in training his good qualities to the extreme rather than being a jack of all trades. However, he realizes and accepts that he is weak in a specific area he wishes to be stronger in.

As for being skilled, I do believe the author is skilled, since he is managing to pull people in to a (broadly speaking) overdone concept. I think the word you were looking for wasn't necessarily "skilled" but "creative." My biggest problem is the pacing. The first six arcs (Terrorists, Nine-Schools, Yokohama War, Past, and 2 Angelina Sirius Arcs I have yet to read) all occur within a one year period. I can understand the first four arcs, since the Nine-Schools Competition and the Thesis Competition are annual events at the school, and the fourth arc is simply a flashback, but I think adding in those last two as a whole are oddly placed. If the author continues pacing things like this, I hesitate to say it will remain as interesting towards the end.

Also, yes, all those explanations are pretty unnecessary. In all technicality, if you can accept "magic" as something that just happens (there's really no need to know how it happens), then all of that seems wasteful. I think, though, that the explanations the author gives helps in bringing "believability" to the story. Rather than just saying he knows some skill that no one could possibly know, there is a basis in science. For example, during the nine-schools competition, Mayumi is in Speed Shooting and hits the targets with dry ice bullets which shoot at high speed. Tatsuya explains (to Leo, who had asked about it), that the energy released from condensing carbon dioxide into a solid form is used to increase the speed at which the bullet travels (A trade off for the energy which still matches mass-energy conservation laws, even if they go against thermodynamic principles). By explaining it in detail, it gives you a sense of "Oh, that's how it works" rather than just saying "Hey look, it's Magic!" The long explanations are certainly one of the more annoying things about the story, but they give the writing its own uniqueness.

With all that said, it's still up to you what you take out of the story. If you're interested in reading it, then go for it. You're missing a lot compared to just reading the summary, but that "lot" is also stuff that's not too important.

And this turned out to be a lot longer than I intended. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm condemning you, since I absolutely see where you are coming from. I started reading after the first major set of spoilers (9-schools). If I had the spoilers for arcs 1-4 like there are now, I would probably think that the story was simply repetitive and wouldn't bother reading it, so I don't blame you for thinking the way you do. Plenty of people are saying potchip should read the story before making any comments like he did, but I think most people should do the same. He could very well be right. It could just be a small set of people who happen to be interested in a completely boring, repetitive, predictable story talking about it :P

Edit: This sounds too damn preachy. Don't take it too much to heart, since I meant no offense to anyone.

Last edited by EnigmaticAxiom; 2012-05-02 at 11:22.
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Old 2012-05-02, 13:01   Link #690
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Enigmatic is correct. This story got the majority of its fans from the first two arc. If you know about Tatsuya's true abilities immediately from the get-go, it might not be anywhere as exciting to see Tatsuya's fights against Hattori or Masaki. The author does a great job on gradually revealing more and more of Tatsuya's abilities. The question for the author is what he'll do after revealing 90% of the MC's true abilities. There are still other characters and events to consider, e.g. the Seven Wise Elders, the other War Level Magicians, the international situation, and conflict between the Numbered Families.
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Old 2012-05-02, 13:07   Link #691
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@EnigmaticAxiom, how many web novels did the author release before shutting down his blog?
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Old 2012-05-02, 13:18   Link #692
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I think the story is not very predictable though. The only predictable thing is that Tatsuya will kick anyone's ass if he were to show a bit of his power and the Yotsuba would be as dumb as ever to hold on to policy to regard Tatsuya as defective product while he can slaughter them all and better than them in almost every aspects. The development is really unpredictable to me. I really doubt how would the story go now, since Tatsuya is too powerful, we have 2 more years in high school and I can't see anyone who can match him.

Maybe beings from different dimension like the vamps, only far stronger.
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Old 2012-05-02, 14:54   Link #693
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@EnigmaticAxiom, how many web novels did the author release before shutting down his blog?
6 Web Arcs which encompass the first year. I think it was either whsie or raptor that said he originally planned for 15 web arcs.

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I think the story is not very predictable though. The only predictable thing is that Tatsuya will kick anyone's ass if he were to show a bit of his power and the Yotsuba would be as dumb as ever to hold on to policy to regard Tatsuya as defective product while he can slaughter them all and better than them in almost every aspects. The development is really unpredictable to me. I really doubt how would the story go now, since Tatsuya is too powerful, we have 2 more years in high school and I can't see anyone who can match him.

Maybe beings from different dimension like the vamps, only far stronger.
I think it's a bit predictable not in terms of the story itself but the general progression. The enemies get more powerful as time goes on (Students > Terrorists > Competition > War 2 > War 1 > War Level Magician > Vampire?).
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Old 2012-05-02, 15:07   Link #694
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^^ Well, war level magician is the epitome of it all already imo. Even vampire wouldn't be able to destroy a city. They're not Alucard...

And if even more powerful enemies come, the only one capable to beating them would only be Tatsuya, the rest of the cast would be of no help if someone as badass as Tatsuya showed up.

I believe that we will face a bunch of war level magicians working in team to bring down Tatsuya.

Or other countries might want his gene so they send girls to carry his child back to their own country, in case the secret is no more to other countries' government, making it a truly harem series.

Or new enemies from another dimension.

But seriously, the rest of the cast is like bugs compared to him. He's too overpowered that the only way to the author can continue the series is by making Tatsuya's true power top secret so that he'll make use of other means to solve the trouble.
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Old 2012-05-02, 21:35   Link #695
larethian
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
Tatsuya doesn't need more power up Lare. His already too much over powered. We need a good contender or enemy than another shounen power up.
That's why I said he already got the power-up ^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnigmaticAxiom View Post
6 Web Arcs which encompass the first year. I think it was either whsie or raptor that said he originally planned for 15 web arcs.


I think it's a bit predictable not in terms of the story itself but the general progression. The enemies get more powerful as time goes on (Students > Terrorists > Competition > War 2 > War 1 > War Level Magician > Vampire?).
It was mentioned in his twitter before v3 was published (or earlier, can't remember).

Indeed, it's 'predictable' in that sense (and the outcome as well), but what the readers are interested is the 'process' and the 'execution'.



And honestly speaking, v5 was only average at best to me. I think he was prompted by Dengeki to write this 'omake' volume, and not really his original intention.

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Last edited by larethian; 2012-05-02 at 21:48.
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Old 2012-05-02, 21:51   Link #696
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I have to admit that I am not focused enough on the trappings of the story that they concern me. From my perspective you can make an argument that any story has been done before and I tend to view 'overpowered' as something whose main significance is in games and video games and of only marginal interest in fiction. What I am finding interesting in this story is the author's exploration of the inflexiblity of people's value systems.

I see a lot of complaints about how the Yotsuba are 'stupid' for treating Tatsuya the way they do, but their behavior is very much reflected in human societies the world over. The Yotsuba value the ability to perform 'true magic'. That is what is important to them. While they recognize the usefulness of Tatsuya's abilities (hence seeing him as a useful 'tool') they also recognize that those abilities do not match to what they value. A world class plumber is a world class plumber where ever he is, but in an artist commune where the ability to create art is the measuring stick he's going to be at the bottom of the food chain regardless of how useful his ability is. Even Tatsuya, proud of his abilities though he may be, strongly desires to be able to use 'true magic' and is displeased at his limited abilities on that front.

The 'Blooms' versus 'Weeds' dynamic is similar as it is extended to both elements of magic where the practical exam is indicative of ability (casting spells) and elements of magic where the practical exam seems irrelevant to the work at hand (creating/tuning CADs). A value/belief system is influencing the judgements there as well.

For me, I'm curious to see if Tatsuya will regain any emotions. I'm curious to watch how Miyuki comes to interpret and deal with her feelings. I'm curious to watch Tatsuya, who is realistically able to kill almost everyone he has encountered so far, struggle with the impotence of having only a tool for direct attacks to support him against an invisible group pulling strings from the shadows that gives him no real target to deal with.

There's more, but that's enough to get my point across. The fact is values are personal, they are human, and they are not objective. Diamonds were seen as worthless at various points in history and lobster was once viewed as a 'garbage fish' and fed to prisoners due to being held in such low esteem. So for me how the story explores those elements and how they play out is of much greater interest than how the situation will end.
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Old 2012-05-03, 01:09   Link #697
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^^Sorry, but I fail to see how we can even describe Tatsuya as human anymore. He's more like a demi-god to me. If he actually turn his fang against the Yotsuba then they'd face their doom for sure, along with many others and millions of people would have been slaughtered. I think Japan might even sink.

They don't even employ thing like a bomb inside his head to restrain his action (well, I suppose they just can't do it since tatsuya is too hax). Their only counter-measure is Miyuki, a dirty method using against someone they deem inferior.

The past history had these bastards alive because the victims aren't god. This time is totally different. What if Tatsuya decided to use MB on a very larger object that would create explosion 1000x the Tsar Bomba? The power output that can wipe out all life on the surface right inside Japan?
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Old 2012-05-03, 01:17   Link #698
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i think:
normaly shounen stories are about fights or conflicts that involve a initialy weak MC that goes growing stronger to fight the bad guys, then after clearing the last dugeon and beating the last boss and/or getting the girl: the end. This is the shounen basic plot. When a story is out of this premise yet it still looks like a shounen, feel weird; like some kind of uncanny valley...

In this series the MC is already very strong and everything is about "wow! he is so strong and smart, and he can do many things we cannot!", we feel like that something is lacking: training arcs, 50% of a normal plot, and a big bad boss who wanna destroy the world and can make the MC bite the ground, without these elements plus the fact that we still don't know if MC has a goal makes everything unpredictable

Last edited by sabado; 2012-05-03 at 09:15.
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Old 2012-05-03, 03:27   Link #699
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For my part i am glad that there are no training arc, i find them most of the time boring (same for tournenament arc).
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Old 2012-05-03, 04:11   Link #700
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Spoiler for Training Arc:
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