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Old 2013-10-17, 23:27   Link #7061
hakazee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultragunner View Post
The last one. IMO, for Decomposition and Regeneration (Regrowth), which are Tatsuya's innate abilities, he can cast them with astounding speed even without CAD or Flash Cast. However, with the addtional assistance form either Flash Cast or CAD, Tatsuya can boost not only the casting speed but also the efficiency, accuracy...etc....a bit further.

In vol 8, why he used CAD when reviving Minami and Miya but not Miyuki? Because if it took more time to take out the CAD than to immediately cast Regrowth on his sister
So Mist Dispersal + Trident + Flash Cast should be instant cast ?
Emmm, in volume 2 when he disassemble enemy rifle tatsuya use Mist Dispersal + Trident + Flash Cast ?

Wheen I read the Manga it seems instant cast because he destroy more than 10 rifle so fast.
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Old 2013-10-17, 23:27   Link #7062
NoLife222
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Spoiler for Magic Calculation Area:


From the picture, one can see that his natural magic is store in the subconscious part. The artificial calculation area is stored in the conscious part. Apparently, the natural magic calculation is fully dedicated to support decomposition and regrowth, making any additional support unnecessary (the speed and strength is both superior).

Last edited by NoLife222; 2013-10-18 at 00:08.
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Old 2013-10-17, 23:55   Link #7063
Voceane
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Originally Posted by hakazee View Post
maybe because without Flash Cast his MCA is totally useless ?




then which one is faster ?

Mist Dispersal + Trident
Mist Dispersal + Flash Cast
Mist Dispersal + Trident + Flash Cast
He use flash cast to cast normal magic. But he is a SB magician and like all the SB magic he doesn't need a CAD to cast it. For a SB magician, the SB magic is like you breath so he doesn't need to use his artificial calculator who is slower than his normal.
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Old 2013-10-17, 23:56   Link #7064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hakazee View Post
So Mist Dispersal + Trident + Flash Cast should be instant cast ?
Emmm, in volume 2 when he disassemble enemy rifle tatsuya use Mist Dispersal + Trident + Flash Cast ?

Wheen I read the Manga it seems instant cast because he destroy more than 10 rifle so fast.
Pretty much, the "trinity" combination Mist Dispersal + Trident + Flash Cast is the fastest most efficient, most accurate and most badass (ooppss ) way to decompose anything.

Though I would say the differences between when Tatsuya uses MD "barehanded" and when he utilises it with Trident + Flash Cast are quite insignificant (if you're an average magician that is).

For Flash Cast, it is true that it helps Tatsuta cast normal magic. If it is <5 steps, then he could cast that magic close to instantly. But Flash Cast also improves the speed of Tatsuya's other magic, like Gram Demolition, that's technically not a "normal" magic, yet in vol 4, Tatsuya used Flash Cast and was able to counter 14/16 of Masaki's blasts.
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Old 2013-10-18, 01:10   Link #7065
bloodyclaws
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Originally Posted by Ultragunner View Post
Pretty much, the "trinity" combination Mist Dispersal + Trident + Flash Cast is the fastest most efficient, most accurate and most badass (ooppss ) way to decompose anything.

Though I would say the differences between when Tatsuya uses MD "barehanded" and when he utilises it with Trident + Flash Cast are quite insignificant (if you're an average magician that is).

For Flash Cast, it is true that it helps Tatsuta cast normal magic. If it is <5 steps, then he could cast that magic close to instantly. But Flash Cast also improves the speed of Tatsuya's other magic, like Gram Demolition, that's technically not a "normal" magic, yet in vol 4, Tatsuya used Flash Cast and was able to counter 14/16 of Masaki's blasts.
I think your misunderstanding what flash cast is. Flash cast cannot be used with his decomposition and restoration magic because they are his specialized abilities. They take up most of his calculation area so much that he cannot use normal magic like the usual magician. His SB magic is not so simple in sequence that it can be flash casted.

Also, Flash cast does not help Gram demolition whatsover. It is just an expulsion of densely clumped psions. Theres no activation sequence in that.

Quote:
Tatsuya doesn't Flash Cast his Regrowth magic or his MD. Flash Casting requires him to use his Artificial Calculation Area, which simply isn't that good when it comes to Interference Strength. Sure, it might work on something small to flash cast them, but anything with real resistance would require him to actually use Trident. It also explains why his casts aren't always instant. Note how when he is fighting Lina who is using Brionac, Tatsuya was actually slower than she was when he was trying to use his Decomposition the first time they traded blows, hence his arm got blown off.
He was slower in his gram dispersion, I believe. He used decomposition on her brioniac after his arm got blown off.
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Old 2013-10-18, 01:44   Link #7066
Voceane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultragunner View Post
yet in vol 4, Tatsuya used Flash Cast and was able to counter 14/16 of Masaki's blasts.
Wrong! He only use flash cast for the big bang at the end. He use loop cast for the Gram demolition.
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Old 2013-10-18, 01:50   Link #7067
Ultragunner
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my bad , for some reasons I always had the impression that he used Flash Cast against Masaki

Let's organize our thought.
Flash Cast is originally a secret technique of the Yotsuba which helps the caster imprint the Activation Sequence into the mind/brain => magic can be casted at high speed even without CAD.
In Tatsuya's case, he takes it to another level in which he can recall the Magic Sequence themselves (bypassing the Activation Sequence). But since he's not good at normal magic, 5-step magic is his limit.

Am I correct on this?
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Old 2013-10-18, 01:51   Link #7068
Waxman
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@bloodyclaws SB magic is spiritual beign magic, the thing Mikihiko does, you mean BS (born specialized)
...
Sorry i am a little irritated at beign teamed up against, when no one has denied my opinion that he flash casted MB Regrowht and Materia Burst.
You said that they ocuped so much of his natural magic calculation area (MCA) that he cant use other magics. It doesn't deny that he can flash cast them, again Flash Cast is not a magic is a way to cast magic.
You said that his BS magic is not so simple that he can flash cast them, you may refer to the fact that surpass his 5 preceses limit wich would be true with his artificial MCA but his natural one can handle it.
Flash Cast is a technique if you like from the Yotsuba, they likely brainwashed a magician to engrave in him a magic sequence but Tats with Elemental Sight don't need that he can likely store the magic sequences of his BS magic in his natural MCA.
Or maybe you are talking that even if they aren't considered magics are still of a complexity in terms of variables and outside factors (number of objetives, positions movements etc).
But i don't recognize this as a valid argument either, even when flash casting he did adjusted his magics to some variations even if they werent mentioned outright, take the "Leaping" in vol. 3 when he jumped the fence, at the very least he adjusted the heigh he wanted to jump.
So taking the bullet catching thing as an example, the only way i see he can use magic at that speed and not flash cast it is that he create the magic sequence in the spot, not "remembering" with flash cast but imagining it like the parasites.
The other option, he is so fast with his BS magic that he doesn't need a CAD makes no sense because then he wouldn't use them when fighting the alliance forces in Yokohama or Lina.


@Ultragunner, as far as i understan you are correct.
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Old 2013-10-18, 02:04   Link #7069
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To put it simple: Flash Cast is like "memory dial" on your phone but on magic sequences, so doesnt matter is need 3, 5 or 12 steps in normal way, you can do straight away, the issue is cuz is top secret magic from Yotsuba.
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Old 2013-10-18, 02:10   Link #7070
Ultragunner
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I'm kinda with you here Waxman . There is no definite proof that he can't flash cast his natural decomposition and regeneration abilities. But I would say that it wouldn't make any difference since he can use his innate abilities with insane speed already.

BTW, are we debating anything related to CAD?
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Old 2013-10-18, 02:19   Link #7071
Waxman
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Although it degenrated a little the debate was wether Tatsuya flash cast Mist Dispersal, Regrowht and Material Burst or beign his BS magics he is as fast or even faster than when he cast them with a CAD.
My position is that when in the vol. 8 he casted MD against some foam torpedoes, later revived Miyuki and finally hen he used Material Burst in the bullet he launched in the midle of the alliance fleet he flash casted those magics.
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Old 2013-10-18, 02:38   Link #7072
hakazee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultragunner View Post
But I would say that it wouldn't make any difference since he can use his innate abilities with insane speed already.
Without CAD and flash cast maybe he can cast MD not more than 1 seconds.
With flash cast and CAD he can instant cast and destroy everything in a glance.
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Old 2013-10-18, 03:02   Link #7073
Rava
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waxman View Post
Although it degenrated a little the debate was wether Tatsuya flash cast Mist Dispersal, Regrowht and Material Burst or beign his BS magics he is as fast or even faster than when he cast them with a CAD.
My position is that when in the vol. 8 he casted MD against some foam torpedoes, later revived Miyuki and finally hen he used Material Burst in the bullet he launched in the midle of the alliance fleet he flash casted those magics.
There is zero valid evidence to support that stance.
  • When he sank the torpedoes, he used a gesture to invoke magic.
  • The very nature of Regrowth is incompatible with the idea of Flash Cast in the first place, considering that he has to read the Eidos and withstand the pain that he is reading in order to pull off the magic in the first place.
  • When he uses Material Burst for the first time, he uses the gesture of unclenching his fist to release it.

Flash Cast does not require any gestures to activate, and there is zero reason for Tatsuya to pretend about it in front of Miya, Sakurai and Miyuki.

Yes there is text there about how fast his Decomposition magic came out. This is to emphasize how fast he is at using his BS magic. This does not negate the fact that he used gestures to release the magic in the first place.
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Old 2013-10-18, 03:22   Link #7074
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From my point of view tatsuya is flash casting bcuz hes a bs so whats the point of cast an activation activation sequence rather than remembering his magic sequence he probably memorized it anyway....so its still considered flash casting
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Old 2013-10-18, 03:24   Link #7075
Waxman
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Yes he used gestures when using decomposition in the torpedoes and firing Gram Demolition to Joe Higaki and uses Material Burst, but he was s 13 years old kid so sorry if i accept the gesturing when using magic as something a kid even a kid like Tatsuya would do.
So...
What part of the nature of Regrowht is exactly against the idea of Flash Cast? You said he has to read the Eidos, but strictly speaking this is only a preparation, a vital one but only a preparation, he doesn't cast magic but analises the Eidos with Elemental sight.
The castin comes later and even if not, like i repeated many times and will try to say it for the last time Flash Cast is a way to cast magic. Are you saying that Tatsuya lacks the concentration to cast magic to save Miyuki under a hellish pain?
Please give me more valid concepts than the habits of a child and that its to painfull.
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Old 2013-10-18, 04:08   Link #7076
Rava
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waxman View Post
Yes he used gestures when using decomposition in the torpedoes and firing Gram Demolition to Joe Higaki and uses Material Burst, but he was s 13 years old kid so sorry if i accept the gesturing when using magic as something a kid even a kid like Tatsuya would do.
We've seen him Flash Cast things. He does not use any gestures unless he's trying to hide the fact that he is using Flash Cast.

He might have reason to do it in front of Joe, but he has absolutely ZERO reason to do so in front of of Miya, Sakurai and Miyuki.

The excuse that it's just because he was a kid has absolutely no evidence to support it at all. You are simply applying your own bias on how he should be acting as kid with very weak emotions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Waxman View Post
So...
What part of the nature of Regrowth is exactly against the idea of Flash Cast? You said he has to read the Eidos, but strictly speaking this is only a preparation, a vital one but only a preparation, he doesn't cast magic but analises the Eidos with Elemental sight.
The castin comes later and even if not, like i repeated many times and will try to say it for the last time Flash Cast is a way to cast magic. Are you saying that Tatsuya lacks the concentration to cast magic to save Miyuki under a hellish pain?
Please give me more valid concepts than the habits of a child and that its to painfull.
Wrong.

The Eidos scanning and backtracking is 100% included in the Regrowth magic. Whether he uses Elemental Sight to do it or not is completely irrelevant. Even without knowing the exact number of steps involved, the demonstration of how Regrowth fixes the body automatically disqualifies it from the restrictions he has for Flash Cast. Just with the absolute bare minimum:

Scans Eidos
Identifies the safe point
Identifies any changes to the Eidos after the safe point (because we know he has to read the pain)
Starts up the recovery process and perform the actions needed to revert Eidos to former state.

He's got at least 2 variables in here.

If you're going to continue to make this claim that the scanning and backtracking is not part of Regrowth, please provide actual proof that this occurs before he activates Regrowth in Volume 7.
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Old 2013-10-18, 04:18   Link #7077
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Sometimes I think that I'm not reading the same novel here.

Vol 3 Chap 4
Quote:
His Magic Power was so specialized that he could only use certain magics and, even without a CAD, as long as he was using those magics, he was equal to any other Magician using a CAD in terms of speed, detail and strength.
It's clearly said that Tatsuya can cast his BS magics without a CAD. I'm not saying that he cant use Mist Dispersal and Regrowth + Flash Cast, but rather, aparently there's no need to do so. It would be nice if you guys stop with the delusions that he Flash Cast every single magic he uses.

About Mist Dispersal + Flash Cast + Trident. You guys know what is the purpose of a CAD, right? Flash Cast is the ability to cast magic without a CAD but on the same speed as a CAD, in the case of Tatuya, his Flash Cast eliminates the deficit in processing speed that a CAD has, thus making pointless in combining the 2.
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Old 2013-10-18, 04:29   Link #7078
Waxman
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Ok, @Ophis convinced me. See it wasn't so hard? It only took to remind me something i read sometime ago and hace forgoten.
But one last thing, @Rava, its not exactly in that order he scan the actual state of the Eidos, read his past until find a safe point and then reemplace the actual Eidos for the copy of the safe point.
In vol. 6 when backtraked the "past" of the bullet the bullet the sniper fired him when he saved his stepmother, he did read its actual Eidos and read its past until he located the position of the sniper when fired.
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Old 2013-10-18, 04:35   Link #7079
hakazee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ophis View Post
About Mist Dispersal + Flash Cast + Trident. You guys know what is the purpose of a CAD, right? Flash Cast is the ability to cast magic without a CAD but on the same speed as a CAD, in the case of Tatuya, his Flash Cast eliminates the deficit in processing speed that a CAD has, thus making pointless in combining the 2.
That's important.
Since someone said Lina is faster than tatsuya.
So we try to find a condition where tatsuya can do INSTANT CAST.
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Old 2013-10-18, 04:54   Link #7080
pampz21
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Originally Posted by hakazee View Post
That's important.
Since someone said Lina is faster than tatsuya.
So we try to find a condition where tatsuya can do INSTANT CAST.
Lina is not faster than tatsuya....brionac's damage is faster than regrowth...its like when touma face styl's innocentis....the damge speed is faster than his regrowth...its a laser after all....so its about at .009313 but tatsuyas regrowth is like .02456 or somethin
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