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Old 2013-11-12, 10:13   Link #7761
bietchie11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
He didn't court Miya. The Yotsuba went after him. What commoner in their right mind would try to court a member of the Yotsuba? Remember that the names of the Yotsuba are kept secret so Miya and the yotsuba must have revealed themselves to him.

1. A rumor usually has a gem of truth and it's more proof than baseless speculation. Money was likely an incentive for him to marry Miya and it's only natural that he'd try to please her in every possible way through the only available option, money, because he doesn't have anything else to offer her. They never loved each other so this sort of relationship the inevitable result.

2. You can't blame a man in his position for cheating. The Yotsuba only wanted his genes to begin with and marriage was really only a formality. So you can't expect commitment on his part.

3. The Yotsuba would never let him get away. He knows too much.

4. He lives his life everyday knowing that he never amounted to anything, his son born from a marriage he didn't really want is better than him, and his company doesn't even belong to him.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to sympathize with him. I find it important to consider his circumstances which leads me to conclude that he was just a spineless man caught by the Yotsuba and become even more spineless. He can't be blamed for not helping Tatsuya since there was really nothing he could've done. As kagato3 pointed out he was just genetic stock and as a failure of a magician and an outsider he has no influence within the Yotsuba, but not being able to help is not the same as not wanting to help. I find his lack of willingness to even act the fatherly figure to his son his major fault.
You actually convince me to be a little sympathy with him, a little.
Not really, just kidding.
I now can understand why he did what he did, thanks to you. But just like i understand why gigolos, rapists, gold-diggers do what they did; i still don't agree with it.
He is still a sore loser, a gold-digger and a coward nonetheless and he should commit Senpuku.
Man, i feel bad for Tatsuya for having such a father.

P/S: i might have sympathy for him if he just turns cold shoulder on the mother, daughter and son. Or if he refuses to receive any financial support from Yotsuba.
But he pretends to care about them and cheats at the same time while receiving the money. That's just coward. Make me remembering Schoolday's MC or my cousin's father.
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The man, the legend.
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Die while being awesome.
He then revives faster than Jesus.

Last edited by bietchie11; 2013-11-12 at 11:12.
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Old 2013-11-12, 11:36   Link #7762
animeisinteresting
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Originally Posted by hakazee View Post
Okay, maybe Maya doesn't hate tatsuya.
The fact is she doesn't care about him.
We know Yotsuba lacks of personel, so Maya don't care what method they used as long as they could made tatsuya useful for the clan.
Operated him ? Tortured him in training ?

That's Maya's fault if one day tatsuya betray them.

If Genzou still alive, tatsuya can live better.
Maya is exactly like Tatsuya. She has got no emotions. How can she hate anyone. All she does is calculate what's best for the family. Tatsuya's first priority is Miyuki. Maya's first priority is the Yotsuba.
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Old 2013-11-12, 11:54   Link #7763
bietchie11
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Originally Posted by animeisinteresting View Post
Maya is exactly like Tatsuya. She has got no emotions. How can she hate anyone. All she does is calculate what's best for the family. Tatsuya's first priority is Miyuki. Maya's first priority is the Yotsuba.
Exactly. Same people, different sides.
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Old 2013-11-12, 12:13   Link #7764
nosaer
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Originally Posted by animeisinteresting View Post
Maya is exactly like Tatsuya. She has got no emotions. How can she hate anyone. All she does is calculate what's best for the family. Tatsuya's first priority is Miyuki. Maya's first priority is the Yotsuba.
but Maya had her memories changed from experience to knowledge...thats not necessarily the same as having your emotions erased...atleast thats what some people have been led to believe.
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Old 2013-11-12, 12:35   Link #7765
Breimoon
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the memories changed from experience to knowledge does it apply only up to the time they changed folder or all her memories even now are just knowledge?if the first one she should have emotions, if not then she should not have them.
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Old 2013-11-12, 12:37   Link #7766
Waxman
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And Tatsuya isn't as emotionless as many believe but thats not the point, the point its that Maya will stop at nothing to assure the well beign of the Yotsuba and Tatsuya will stop at nothing to assure the well beign of Miyuki.
.
Anyways a real confrontation between them will not happen until the end of the third year (if we get that far) so a lot of things need to happen first.
.
I believe that first the cold war between the Saegusa and the Yotsuba will get a lot hotter.
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Old 2013-11-12, 15:12   Link #7767
Ophis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animeisinteresting View Post
Maya is exactly like Tatsuya. She has got no emotions. How can she hate anyone. All she does is calculate what's best for the family. Tatsuya's first priority is Miyuki. Maya's first priority is the Yotsuba.
No, she's not. Maya had the 'emotional' part of her memories changed into 'knowledge'. Maya has emotions like any other normal person.

PS: Tatsuya too has emotions, he only lost his strong urges. He's not a machine.
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Old 2013-11-12, 18:05   Link #7768
hakazee
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Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
There are hints that the torturous training was Tatsuya's doing. Sakurai even calls him out on it.
The truth is we don't have information on how willing Tatsuya was to go through the operation. Had it not failed he would have been a full member of the family and from the sound of it they hoped for a lesser impact on his emotional state.
A lot of what Maya has done seems to have been to cement Miyuki becomeing the next head and in away give him a bit more freedom to do what he wants. The one time she seemingly goes against this and atacked him she demonstrate to who ever was monitoring and likely recording the meeting that Tatsuya is a monster that a) is completely loyal to his sister b) can fight on par with Maya. This "forces" her to choose Miyuki as next head lest he turn on them. It almost feels like it is a trap for anyone that belives they could manipulate the next head of the family.
What do you mean ? Tatsuya tortured himself ?
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Old 2013-11-12, 18:32   Link #7769
Waxman
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No, he endured it because at the time it was the fastest way to gain the efficaciousness to accomplish his objetive, namely protect Miyuki.
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Old 2013-11-12, 19:14   Link #7770
bietchie11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hakazee View Post
What do you mean ? Tatsuya tortured himself ?
It's a training to resist interrogation and torture.
By getting used to it.
Don't worry. That happens to any special operatives, intelligent agents in real life.
Take Specnaz for example.

Let just treat it like hellish trainings every single shounen MC takes, everyday.
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Live to be awesome.
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Old 2013-11-13, 00:18   Link #7771
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Originally Posted by hakazee View Post
What do you mean ? Tatsuya tortured himself ?
Well he didn't physically do it hinself.
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Old 2013-11-13, 01:47   Link #7772
pampz21
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But he agreed to it...its different if he was given a choice if not thats child abuse!!!
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Old 2013-11-13, 03:23   Link #7773
bietchie11
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But he agreed to it...its different if he was given a choice if not thats child abuse!!!
His consent is not mentioned.
May be he agreed, may be he didn't.
Let ask this question: is he willing to do it to be awesome so he can protect Miyuki?
After all " no pain, no gain".
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The man, the legend.
Live to be awesome.
Die while being awesome.
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Old 2013-11-13, 03:32   Link #7774
pampz21
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Ah...who wouldnt???!!!
I would give my life for a sister like her!!!!
The golden rule in life is family comes first!!!

Well I would give my life for my goddess too!!!
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Old 2013-11-13, 04:35   Link #7775
hakazee
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Originally Posted by Waxman View Post
No, he endured it because at the time it was the fastest way to gain the efficaciousness to accomplish his objetive, namely protect Miyuki.
So, I'm not mistaken. Yotsuba tortured him in training to be miyuki's guardian.
First, they operated him but failed. After that they trained him so he could be useful for the clan.
They never considered him as miya's son even as human.
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Old 2013-11-13, 06:55   Link #7776
Verisimilitude
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Originally Posted by hakazee View Post
So, I'm not mistaken. Yotsuba tortured him in training to be miyuki's guardian.
First, they operated him but failed. After that they trained him so he could be useful for the clan.
They never considered him as miya's son even as human.
The thing is, we have to remember how limited magician's rights in Mahouka are. Look at all the examples of human experimentation that have come up so far: Generators, Boosters, Leo's grandfather, the Sakurais, Stardust, the Ten Institutes, the Elements..... What Tatsuya went through is probably not that shocking if you look at the 'darkness' of modern magic, as Mayumi put it in Vol.5.
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Old 2013-11-13, 07:51   Link #7777
neobosco
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Originally Posted by Verisimilitude View Post
The thing is, we have to remember how limited magician's rights in Mahouka are. Look at all the examples of human experimentation that have come up so far: Generators, Boosters, Leo's grandfather, the Sakurais, Stardust, the Ten Institutes, the Elements..... What Tatsuya went through is probably not that shocking if you look at the 'darkness' of modern magic, as Mayumi put it in Vol.5.
so if everybody is fucked, then is okay tatsuya's torture since childhood ? xD

yeah, the mahouka's world is fucked ahahha
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Old 2013-11-13, 09:09   Link #7778
kagato3
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Again volume 8 hints that he has been going farther in his training then required by the family to the point that one of the other guardians calls him on it. Even the training with the army was something he joined willingly as he was only instructed to vist the base. The scars are also stated to be self imposed do to his precived failures so long as they do not effect his combat ablity. While he has gone through torturous training the idea he was forced into it is pretty much fannon.

Reading this foum it seems so many people believe that his training was both abusive and forced on him rather then the same type of training he is doing now. Which is neither implied to be forced nor is it abusive, but is more then capable of leaveing scars if he messes up. As for the anti interagation training it is not clear when that happend nor whos idea it was but it is not out side of Tatsuya's personality to take it to that extreme himself. It might even have been required by the military and not the Yotsuba.
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Old 2013-11-13, 10:16   Link #7779
willx
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^ Volume 8 actually also says that he survived graduating out of the "Fourth Institute" where people were trained side-by-side with DEATH!

You don't think "guardian training" would include resisting torture and the like? For serious?
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Old 2013-11-13, 10:23   Link #7780
neobosco
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Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
... but it is not out side of Tatsuya's personality to take it to that extreme himself.
yeah, and why is that?
because they played with his brain, they transformed him from a boy to a robot (not literally)

so is really his choice? he wanted to become a real magician? he wanted to be a guardian?

that's the problem, he was forced to do the operation, later even if he was willing to do the training, you could say that was his free choice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
It might even have been required by the military and not the Yotsuba.
no

Spoiler for volume 8:
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