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Old 2013-11-22, 04:33   Link #8001
Waxman
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Stopping Maya from indirectly interfer with the structure of information, i mean he stopping her decomposition magic.
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Old 2013-11-22, 04:35   Link #8002
Rava
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Originally Posted by Waxman View Post
@hakazee No, precicely the point of the magic is that the light can't be bloqued because anything in its way get decomposed. So to defeat Meteor Line you need to focus in the decomposition magic wich is the dangerous one after all. Tryin to prevent Maya from casting will be difficult given her speed (like the time Tats failed to stop Lina from Heavy Metal Burst with Gram Dispersion but failed because she was too fast) and trying to interfere with he light control will be equally fruitless to anyone (maybe with time Honaka will be capable).
Uh, no?

The chapter with their showdown states flat out that Meteor Line creates a structure that forces light through. That's what allows it to drill through everything. And that Tatsuya counters Meteor Line by decomposing this structure. So yes, Tatsuya IS interfering with the light control because he's destroying the mechanism that the light's being forced through. To quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volume 8, Chapter 15
The magical barrier through which light passes crafted by ‘Night’ via interfering with the structural information is easily shattered by interference which directly affects the structural information.
You also might want to look up "Vaporization Cutting" because that's exactly how Maya's Meteor Line works when the light has to pass through something. So yes, Meteor Line DOES create a bunch of laser beams.

Quote:
.
Spirits are informations bodies made of pushions that can be attacked with psions right?
Yes, or else it would have been impossible for Tatsuya to blow away a Parasite with Gram Demolition.
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Old 2013-11-22, 04:56   Link #8003
bludvein
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The apparent process of this magic first forms countess tiny balls of light floating in the darkened area, which are then shot out as rays.

The attack appears like a shower of lasers, but the power of Meteor Line has no connection with the energy of the light. Even the amount of light is irrelevant.

The essence of the magic lies in forcing the redistribution of light, where the coordinates for light to be in are set as little balls and lines are then drawn between them.

Anything in the path of the space the light passes through is modified as the light is transmitted: regardless of the hardness of the object, heat resistance, plasticity, or resilience, a hole is drilled through. Not even highly transparent glass holds an optical transparency of 100%, and cannot escape the event modification that ‘light has passed through’ and therefore ‘a hole was made’.

Looking at the logic behind this magic, rather than the phenomenon itself, it can be concluded that the magic interferes with the structural information of the object via the distribution of light, directly vaporizing solids and liquids without affecting heat or pressure; in other words a type of decomposition magic which decomposes into gas. Since it’s defined as a ‘ray of distributed light’, it cannot be defended against via blocking, reflecting, or refracting. Since the light doesn’t come from any particular direction, it cannot be shielded against by magic either. Even if one were to cover themselves with a spherical shield in all directions, it cannot alter the movement of photons and the phenomena ‘light has become a line’ will still be produced, resulting in a hole.
...from the novel. Meteor Line is not a laser, even if the effects are similar.
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Old 2013-11-22, 05:01   Link #8004
Waxman
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This is funny in various ways but i see its also quite pointless and keep going its only an exercisse in futility, so i drop this already.
.
Hm... Pushion Bodies, they are also very hard to detect even with Elemental Sight, so even if a direct blow of psion by Gram Demolition can harm them they can't be modified by "normal" magic, but Miyuki's magic did affect them, hm...
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Old 2013-11-22, 05:01   Link #8005
hakazee
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Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
...from the novel. Meteor Line is not a laser, even if the effects are similar.
I agree.

Only light. No power, No heat, No decompose magic, etc.

Just normal light connected between tiny balls.

Decomposition is a SIDE effect of her magic.
Simply like that.



Assumption illustration

Spoiler for Meteor Line:
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Old 2013-11-22, 05:21   Link #8006
Rava
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Originally Posted by hakazee View Post
I agree.

Only light. No power, No heat, No decompose magic, etc.

Just normal light connected between tiny balls.

Decomposition is a SIDE effect of her magic.
Simply like that.



Assumption illustration

Spoiler for Meteor Line:
The illustration is worthless, IMO.

That aside, @bludvein, that's a good point. I completely forgot that it explicitly stated it didn't create heat and just sublimates everything.
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Old 2013-11-22, 05:42   Link #8007
hakazee
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Originally Posted by Rava View Post
The illustration is worthless, IMO.

That aside, @bludvein, that's a good point. I completely forgot that it explicitly stated it didn't create heat and just sublimates everything.
Sorry, looks like i post a wrong assumption illustration.

I thought she cast " Stage " like that.

And I thought tatsuya simply destroy the Magical Barrier.
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Old 2013-11-22, 11:12   Link #8008
nosaer
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to call an illustration taken out of context worthless is a bit much don't you think. It was originally created to show what meteor line might look like since someone in jcafe was confused by the description. in that context it achieved its goal. whether its a laser or not is pretty silly. a laser is basically an amplified light. a lot of the things lasers can do is a byproduct of being an amplified light. just like a light bulbs main purpose is to produce light, and a side effect of it is creating heat. Also if Maya didn't create some type of "stage" as you like to say, then why would the world turn to night? creating night is the first thing that happens when she uses her magic. you can debate about the reasons all you want, but it is a fact that night is created.
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Old 2013-11-22, 16:43   Link #8009
bludvein
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Originally Posted by nosaer View Post
to call an illustration taken out of context worthless is a bit much don't you think. It was originally created to show what meteor line might look like since someone in jcafe was confused by the description. in that context it achieved its goal. whether its a laser or not is pretty silly. a laser is basically an amplified light. a lot of the things lasers can do is a byproduct of being an amplified light. just like a light bulbs main purpose is to produce light, and a side effect of it is creating heat. Also if Maya didn't create some type of "stage" as you like to say, then why would the world turn to night? creating night is the first thing that happens when she uses her magic. you can debate about the reasons all you want, but it is a fact that night is created.
It turns dark because of the distribution of light. Its not a "stage" or barrier. When she converges all the light into the lines, the area turns dark as a side effect. Remember how Tatsuya said the best magic is about scamming the laws of physics? This is a good example.

Meteor Line is also not amplified light. The amount of light is irrelevant, as the damage comes from the rewriting of the eidos done when "light becomes a line." The actual light has no destructive ability.
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Old 2013-11-22, 17:00   Link #8010
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Volume 11 chapter 15
“Should I say birds of a feather flock together…… Or maybe cut from the same cloth. Regardless, he is definitely a star who is a far cry from being normal.”
“Indeed. Looks like the manipulated might actually turn out to be the manipulator.”
Fujibayashi joined in as she continued to watch the monitor.
If she turned to see her grandfather’s face, then she might have noticed the deeper meaning behind his words.
However, she failed to do so.
Birds of a feather. Centered round the Independent Magic-Equipped Battalion headed by Kazama, she was also included among that number. Nevertheless, whether fortunate or unfortunate, her grandfather’s message was not passed along to the granddaughter.
who is Elder Kudou talking about
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Old 2013-11-22, 17:51   Link #8011
blackwhite67
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Originally Posted by esper1234 View Post
Volume 11 chapter 15
“Should I say birds of a feather flock together…… Or maybe cut from the same cloth. Regardless, he is definitely a star who is a far cry from being normal.”
“Indeed. Looks like the manipulated might actually turn out to be the manipulator.”
Fujibayashi joined in as she continued to watch the monitor.
If she turned to see her grandfather’s face, then she might have noticed the deeper meaning behind his words.
However, she failed to do so.
Birds of a feather. Centered round the Independent Magic-Equipped Battalion headed by Kazama, she was also included among that number. Nevertheless, whether fortunate or unfortunate, her grandfather’s message was not passed along to the granddaughter.
who is Elder Kudou talking about
Tatsuya. Kudou is referring to how Tatsuya's surrounded by abnormal people.

As for Meteor Lina, just so we're clear. There is no magic called Night. It's all Meteor Line. The darkness is a side effect of Maya's redistributing the light so none of it reaches the eyes so it appears dark to observers. This part is all physics.

The next part is not so much and more like twisted logic. Maya creates a line between two balls. Say there's a wall between them two. Common sense says that since the wall is in between the two it blocks the line, preventing it from being drawn, but Meteor Line notably reverses the cause and effect relationship here. It makes it so that the line HAS been drawn. The eidos, to uphold this twisted logic, creates a hole in the wall to make it true, vaporizing anything in the path of the line.
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Old 2013-11-22, 18:53   Link #8012
Rava
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
[...]
As for Meteor Lina, just so we're clear. There is no magic called Night. It's all Meteor Line. The darkness is a side effect of Maya's redistributing the light so none of it reaches the eyes so it appears dark to observers. This part is all physics.

The next part is not so much and more like twisted logic. Maya creates a line between two balls. Say there's a wall between them two. Common sense says that since the wall is in between the two it blocks the line, preventing it from being drawn, but Meteor Line notably reverses the cause and effect relationship here. It makes it so that the line HAS been drawn. The eidos, to uphold this twisted logic, creates a hole in the wall to make it true, vaporizing anything in the path of the line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
It turns dark because of the distribution of light. Its not a "stage" or barrier. When she converges all the light into the lines, the area turns dark as a side effect. Remember how Tatsuya said the best magic is about scamming the laws of physics? This is a good example.

Meteor Line is also not amplified light. The amount of light is irrelevant, as the damage comes from the rewriting of the eidos done when "light becomes a line." The actual light has no destructive ability.
These. The only "barrier" here is the magic forcing the light into lines, which Tatsuya can just immediately target and decompose.

And LOL at Meteor Lina.
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Old 2013-11-22, 19:27   Link #8013
hakazee
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Originally Posted by Rava View Post
These. The only "barrier" here is the magic forcing the light into lines, which Tatsuya can just immediately target and decompose.

And LOL at Meteor Lina.
Sorry need help here.

If Maya fiight in open field in the morning, is it possible to use Meteor Stream ?

May I use above assumption illustration ? Or the assumption illustration is completely wrong ?

I had a hard time imagining her magic.



Anyone can help me ?
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Old 2013-11-22, 19:49   Link #8014
Rava
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Originally Posted by hakazee View Post
Sorry need help here.

If Maya fiight in open field in the morning, is it possible to use Meteor Stream ?

May I use above assumption illustration ? Or the assumption illustration is completely wrong ?

I had a hard time imagining her magic.



Anyone can help me ?
I find the illustration worthless because it leads to misleading questions or interpretations like what you're asking.

Why would being in an open field in the morning stop her from using it in the first place?
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Old 2013-11-22, 19:55   Link #8015
blackwhite67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hakazee View Post
Sorry need help here.

If Maya fiight in open field in the morning, is it possible to use Meteor Stream ?

May I use above assumption illustration ? Or the assumption illustration is completely wrong ?

I had a hard time imagining her magic.



Anyone can help me ?
As I stated, Maya just redistributes light, which is everywhere, regardless of quantity. It has nothing to do with darkness or any of that crap. She gathers all the light, the photons, in the area into balls, which do not emit said light. Observers can't see a thing because none of the light is reaching their eyes so they're literally groping in the dark. The assumption illustration is an accurate portrayal, but I think Maya would be outside the range of Meteor Line. There's no sense in blinding herself as well.
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Old 2013-11-22, 20:05   Link #8016
hakazee
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Originally Posted by Rava View Post
I find the illustration worthless because it leads to misleading questions or interpretations like what you're asking.

Why would being in an open field in the morning stop her from using it in the first place?
You really don't help.

Maybe you can cay that the background is completely wrong.
There are no darkness there.
Line connected by the balls is wrong.

Or maybe other things.

Any idea ?

Open field in the morning ? How can I imagine it ? I beg for help here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackwhite67 View Post
As I stated, Maya just redistributes light, which is everywhere, regardless of quantity. It has nothing to do with darkness or any of that crap. She gathers all the light, the photons, in the area into balls, which do not emit said light. Observers can't see a thing because none of the light is reaching their eyes so they're literally groping in the dark. The assumption illustration is an accurate portrayal, but I think Maya would be outside the range of Meteor Line. There's no sense in blinding herself as well.
Then the first assumption illustration is maybe 50 percent correct ?

The background is wrong maybe ? There is no barrier like that ? Just random darkness around the target ?

Thank you.
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Old 2013-11-22, 20:24   Link #8017
black prince
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Originally Posted by hakazee View Post
Sorry need help here.

If Maya fiight in open field in the morning, is it possible to use Meteor Stream ?

May I use above assumption illustration ? Or the assumption illustration is completely wrong ?

I had a hard time imagining her magic.



Anyone can help me ?
it's still possible to use it in open space/field. It just stated that it more effective in closed space because
Quote:
Its power is especially amplified in a closed space such as rooms or tunnels
and it never stated that it cann't used in open space/field
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Old 2013-11-22, 20:29   Link #8018
hakazee
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Originally Posted by black prince View Post
it's still possible to use it in open space/field. It just stated that it more effective in closed space because and it never stated that it cann't used in open space/field
There is no Night effect if she use in open field ?
Or maybe there is ? How big is the Night effect ?
Only random darkness around target ?


Oh this is only assumption,
but sometimes I can't imagine how Meteor stream works.
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Old 2013-11-22, 20:47   Link #8019
Rava
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hakazee View Post
You really don't help.

Maybe you can cay that the background is completely wrong.
There are no darkness there.
Line connected by the balls is wrong.

Or maybe other things.

Any idea ?

Open field in the morning ? How can I imagine it ? I beg for help here.
You really need to think on if the question you are asking even makes sense. To look at the explanation they give you about Maya's magic:

Quote:
This magic [...] is a Convergence type Systematic magic which controls the distribution of light in its area of effect. Its power is especially amplified in a closed space such as rooms or tunnels.
Just off of these lines alone:

1. Do you understand what "Convergence" means? In this scenario, it means to meet. You could also look at is as gathering in a place (or places).

2. Do you understand what photons are and how they relate to light?

3. Do you understand what "distribution of light" is actually talking about?

4. Do you understand how "sight" is supposed to work?

5. Do you understand what darkness is in real life?
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Old 2013-11-22, 20:50   Link #8020
black prince
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hakazee View Post
There is no Night effect if she use in open field ?
Or maybe there is ? How big is the Night effect ?
Only random darkness around target ?


Oh this is only assumption,
but sometimes I can't imagine how Meteor stream works.
meteor stream is "area of effect" magic. the area that affected become darkened and "night" is created. since meteor stream is unstopable except for Tatsuya, in enclosed space escape option became limited or even none thus make meteor more effective
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