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Old 2013-05-22, 00:26   Link #6841
bludvein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Green One View Post
You're basing the bold on what exactly? The incident with the toothpick spell shows that he's not inclined toward magical ability. All he managed to put out was a burst of destructive power that missed it's target completely and put out way more power then he intended. The story just hasn't shown any evidence or even a hint that he has talent in that direction. Not that learning magic would be a bad thing though.
Just to play devil's advocate here, but he tried once without even a proper teacher. That's hardly an indicator. He's never seriously tried to learn magic or any kind of martial skill. His supposed inability was just decided at one point, with nothing solid to back it up. Besides, Godou is an unreliable narrator.

I could go on about that, but its nothing that hasn't been discussed several times over on this forum. And really, its not even a big deal. It would take decades to be proficient enough to matter, and it wouldn't be as strong as an authority even then. Leave it to the girls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroishinigami View Post
Doni says otherwise about this theory
Doni had a disability that prevented him from storing magic in addition to having no interest in it. That's hardly a good example.
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Old 2013-05-22, 02:41   Link #6842
Moe Connection
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I doubt Godou has any aptitude with LEARNING magic. But once he has learned it, he could most probably use magic better than most people given how much raw power he has. Given how long a campione's lifespan could be, if he take his time to learn magic, there's no doubt he can't be good at it. But the problem is that it would take a lot of time to invest in such a skill which could have been better spent doing something else instead.
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Old 2013-05-22, 03:42   Link #6843
Endscape
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthfanta View Post
I doubt Godou has any aptitude with LEARNING magic. But once he has learned it, he could most probably use magic better than most people given how much raw power he has. Given how long a campione's lifespan could be, if he take his time to learn magic, there's no doubt he can't be good at it. But the problem is that it would take a lot of time to invest in such a skill which could have been better spent doing something else instead.
He isn't really doing anything much related to being a Campione in his daily life in any case.
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Old 2013-05-22, 04:55   Link #6844
Fwarlord
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Actually, Godou has so much magic stored in his body plus his destructive nature. So I can assume that Godou failed at learning magic because he only has a talent for destructive magic. I think Godou should just learn explosive magic like Louis and he can easily deal with divine beasts or any lower class enemies.
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Old 2013-05-22, 05:05   Link #6845
Moe Connection
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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
He isn't really doing anything much related to being a Campione in his daily life in any case.
By using a lot of time on it, I many years. Clearly, the man is uninterested in magic, not to mention untalented in learning the theories etc. With a half hearted attitude in addition to his lack of talent, I doubt he could learn magic without spending MANY MANY YEARS--at least more than a decade.
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Old 2013-05-22, 05:39   Link #6846
Chris38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthfanta View Post
By using a lot of time on it, I many years. Clearly, the man is uninterested in magic, not to mention untalented in learning the theories etc. With a half hearted attitude in addition to his lack of talent, I doubt he could learn magic without spending MANY MANY YEARS--at least more than a decade.
Well, Godou's attitude toward magic might change in the future. Also, I wouldn't say that he is completely untalented in magic, just from a single attempt of him using it. (At least from what I remember about the events from previous volumes).

He might have just ... not found the magic that he specializes in ... yet. It all depends on how the author wants to develop Godou's character.

At the current point, in the novels, I agree that it might take Godou a quite long time to learn magic, but that can change, in the future volume's ...
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Old 2013-05-22, 06:13   Link #6847
Yami no Ou
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if Godou learns to use magic for taking down Divine Beasts,then what would be the role of the girls?
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Old 2013-05-22, 07:29   Link #6848
Hidfe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post
Well, Godou's attitude toward magic might change in the future. Also, I wouldn't say that he is completely untalented in magic, just from a single attempt of him using it. (At least from what I remember about the events from previous volumes).

He might have just ... not found the magic that he specializes in ... yet. It all depends on how the author wants to develop Godou's character.

At the current point, in the novels, I agree that it might take Godou a quite long time to learn magic, but that can change, in the future volume's ...
The Green One already quoted the important part from Volume 13
Quote:
Normally, Godou was not capable of sensing that vague and ambiguous presence. Just as Erica described, he was a man with zero talent in magic.
Not to forget Volume 8:
Quote:
the strength of his magical power coupled with his lack of sensitivity was a cursed combination
To get back on the whole authority discussion. I think everyone understands why the author is reluctant in giving Godou more authorities.
But for the readers it is a little bit frustrating.
However I think there is way around it. Just give him useless (for battle) yet cool and powerful abilities. Some Campione have such abilities. For example the one from Doni which disables all modern technology or the one which gives economic growth for a city she resides in.
I mean there are tons of such abilities. Hell he could even give him a second divine beast which for example can be only summoned in water. There are MANY ways to avoid the Godou becomes too strong and the Girls useless and still give some kind of accomplishment for the battles he went though.
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Old 2013-05-22, 08:26   Link #6849
iCK
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AS I read this, I don't like the false impression of how Mariya & co. believe that Erica is only doing to improve their magical standing (getting intimate with Godou). I'm on Volume 3 right now and based what I've read, Erica truly loves Godou. Now, what I really don't like is how Mariya only became intimate with Godou because she believed that Erica was doing it to improve their magical standing in the world. If she wasn't told Erica was doing that, she would have probably never met Godou ever..

/btw

Is it alright if I read in chronological order as in 3~11~1-12

Last edited by iCK; 2013-05-22 at 08:40.
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Old 2013-05-22, 08:50   Link #6850
Hidfe
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Originally Posted by iCK View Post
Is it alright if I read in chronological order as in 3~11~1-12
I see no reason not to
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Old 2013-05-22, 09:10   Link #6851
ReaperxKingx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iCK View Post
AS I read this, I don't like the false impression of how Mariya & co. believe that Erica is only doing to improve their magical standing (getting intimate with Godou). I'm on Volume 3 right now and based what I've read, Erica truly loves Godou. Now, what I really don't like is how Mariya only became intimate with Godou because she believed that Erica was doing it to improve their magical standing in the world. If she wasn't told Erica was doing that, she would have probably never met Godou ever..

/btw

Is it alright if I read in chronological order as in 3~11~1-12
Yes, yes you may. It is actually the correct order anyhow. Except its 3-11-1-2-.....
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Old 2013-05-22, 09:15   Link #6852
willx
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So we've gotten back into the whole "training" debate --

The thing that amused me the most is that Godou refuses to train either physically or magically .. but was almost killed by Luo Hoa even when she was just using martial arts and magic and not her authority..
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Old 2013-05-22, 09:22   Link #6853
Ultragunner
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Well, it's just how Campiones are, they just do the things they like and best at.

If you wanna be a martial artist Campione, you'd better be straight up as godly as Doni or Luo Hao which is practically impossible for human, else don't even bother.

And I doubt even ones as talented as Erica, Lilianna and Ena wouldn't be able catch up to Doni and Luo Hao (martial arts aspect, excluding all the Campione related powers).

However, IMO, "training" is possible for Campione, but it requires a training partner with the calibre of a god or Campione. If I were an immortal and indestructible god, I'd take him the the Astral Realm (I think that's where Susanoo lives) and force him to fight non-stop with the intention to kill him .

I think one of the reasons why normal training won't work with someone like Godou is because he's only filled with power when in serious battles. If he just trains "normally" (like any human being does - Erica for example), it'll be just like trying to get better at driving a racing car without even starting up the engine, and if you do this....yeah like there will be some results.
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Old 2013-05-22, 09:41   Link #6854
willx
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It's a fact that "training authorities" does not work.

The thing people are irritated about is that he doesn't train his "non-authority" abilities. This has been rehashed over and over again. The one thing that amuses me is that during Godou's duel with Doni, despite us being told that Doni had no talent in magic and his old body couldn't store magical power ..

During the duel he 1) uses magical spellwords to light his sword on fire (maybe part of the authority?) and 2) he uses "leap"

Also, please remember, Doni and Luo Hoa's talent at martial ability has nothing to do with their "Campione-ness" or rather it is simply their innate talent. Whereas Godou is innately talented .. as baseball! Swing batta batta!
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Old 2013-05-22, 09:52   Link #6855
Ultragunner
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Yeah, do remember that "common senses" do not apply to these guys

It has been stated in the LN that even one being completely hopeless with magic (like in the case of Doni and Godou), after becoming a Campione, he/she will possess enormous amount of magicial power, greater than any magi in the world, and when they use it, they do it like a pro, no, even more than a pro (Godou with the Goat incarnation).

What do Godou and Campiones fight gods and among themselves with? Their Authorities!!

Sure Godou can train his body and pick up some skills (swordsmanship, magic and survival skills), they will be very useful in situations like when he's stranded with Yuri on an island, BUT not in a battle with a god or Campione
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Old 2013-05-22, 09:56   Link #6856
belatkuro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
The thing people are irritated about is that he doesn't train his "non-authority" abilities. This has been rehashed over and over again. The one thing that amuses me is that during Godou's duel with Doni, despite us being told that Doni had no talent in magic and his old body couldn't store magical power ..

During the duel he 1) uses magical spellwords to light his sword on fire (maybe part of the authority?) and 2) he uses "leap"
Just because his body before wasn't able to store magic doesn't mean he doesn't know any magic. He was still a Knight of an association so as a part of his training, he was probably trained to know Leap, which is I believe a basic movement magic. But of course he couldn't use it due to the inability to store magic in his body. That's why he resorted to training his swordsmanship to its limits and becoming this genius swordsman in the end. Now that he's a Campione and has tons of magic energy to spare, he can use it whenever.
The flaming sword is probably because of his authority. Kinda like an extended application to it I guess like with Alec and his lightning.
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Old 2013-05-22, 10:01   Link #6857
willx
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@Ultragunner / belatkuro --

I know about his OLD body not being able to store magic, that's why I said "OLD" .. of course a Campione's body is full of magic power so he could use "Leap" if he learnt it. My point was that he went and learnt it wheras Godou's character has been designed to be both the super-hero-protagonist as well as "an everyman"

So despite it being obviously useful for him to train his non-authority abilities like magic, swordsmanship, martial arts or learning stuff like "leap" -- Godou's not going to do it. The author won't let him because an "everyday super man" because then he won't need his ladies as much.
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Old 2013-05-22, 10:16   Link #6858
Mars Mode
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In fact the reason why they can only improve trough battles with equal or more powerful enemies has been given a justigication more or less.

Once they become Campione they stop being human,(everybody knows this) and since then their nature as Campiones takes over them and the only time they encounter battle is when they gain control over their Authorities.

Magic, if you even want to harm a divine beast with magic the level of Golgotha is necessary, and I dont see Godou attaining that level of mastery any time soon.

Martial arts, this is less likely.

Although it would be nice some training in the last one to take care of little grunts.

Leap is a technique attainable trough magic, but magic is not the only way to attain it, as evindeced by Yinghua, a pure martial artist more talented in it that Liliana herself.
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Old 2013-05-22, 10:26   Link #6859
Kadi
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You forget that the martial arts Yinghua and Luo Hao do ARE magic. Ki or Chi is just another name for the magical energy Erica and the others use, too.


As for Doni's "leaping"... I don't know if he could do it before becoming a campione and I don't think he properly learned it, but he's the kind of guy to just figure it out on the spot when he needs it.
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Old 2013-05-22, 10:28   Link #6860
Ultragunner
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
@Ultragunner / belatkuro --

I know about his OLD body not being able to store magic, that's why I said "OLD" .. of course a Campione's body is full of magic power so he could use "Leap" if he learnt it. My point was that he went and learnt it wheras Godou's character has been designed to be both the super-hero-protagonist as well as "an everyman"

So despite it being obviously useful for him to train his non-authority abilities like magic, swordsmanship, martial arts or learning stuff like "leap" -- Godou's not going to do it. The author won't let him because an "everyday super man" because then he won't need his ladies as much.
You're right, but irritating as it is, Campione will just do what they feel like. For Godou, training at stuffs like martial arts or magic wouldn't fit him, or at least that's what he thinks, it just doesn't "feel" right. And for Campiones, if sth is not "right" => not gonna work, it's in the mind, soul and instinct (the last one is probably the most important for any Campione) LOL

For Doni, why he learned Leap. I bet he was like: "Hooo, now I can use magic, how about doing sth like jumping, bet it's gonna be useful and fun in battles", it "feels right" for him as he's martial art type
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