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Old 2013-06-15, 01:41   Link #7221
Chris38
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I guess that with the new update, we have finally learned why Madam Aisha is rumored to live in seclusion ... along with the reason, why she has means to survive an encounter with the King of the End.

It also lessens the probability that Aisha's holes are going to be used to make them, go back to the present era, since they only open, once for a few years - and I don't see the author making Godou spend a few years in the past, with the company of Erica and Ena ... since, doing something like that, would have pretty heavy consequences .
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Old 2013-06-15, 01:42   Link #7222
belatkuro
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Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Neither is Doni. They both have authorities from [steel] gods, and all of Godou's authorities so far are [steel], so he's the more likely candidate. And the new authority Circe gave him could be the Divine Something WTF Sword.

Before anyone says anything, Verethragna is steel. It's been quoted half a dozen times in this thread, go look for it.
Uh no. Not one of Godou's incarnations possess the "indestructibility" property that Lancelot, Sun Wukong and Doni's authority possess which is one of the main things that define [Steel].
Camel isn't indestructible and just gives extra endurance. He possesses immortality with the Ram alright but that doesn't make him [Steel] already.
And if Verethragna was [Steel], then Godou would have had an easier time against his first battle with Athena.
Lastly, there is nothing within Verethragna's lore that fits the story's definition of [Steel] of "immortality", "indestructibility", or "strong connection over snakes and dragons." Perseus is connected to Medusa, Ama no Murakumo is a sword which came from Yamata no Orochi, Sun Wukong bathed in a furnace and some other lores mixed in to get an immortal body, Siegfried slew a dragon and bathed in its blood to become invulnerable.
So no.
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Old 2013-06-15, 02:44   Link #7223
Gore17
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Originally Posted by Chris38 View Post
I guess that with the new update, we have finally learned why Madam Aisha is rumored to live in seclusion ... along with the reason, why she has means to survive an encounter with the King of the End.

It also lessens the probability that Aisha's holes are going to be used to make them, go back to the present era, since they only open, once for a few years - and I don't see the author making Godou spend a few years in the past, with the company of Erica and Ena ... since, doing something like that, would have pretty heavy consequences .
It's "a few times a year", not "once a few years". So months, not years. Plus, nothing says that Aisha can't manually activate it, just that she can't pick the destination.

And again: are we sure Aisha was born before the 19th century?

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Originally Posted by belatkuro View Post
Uh no. Not one of Godou's incarnations possess the "indestructibility" property that Lancelot, Sun Wukong and Doni's authority possess which is one of the main things that define [Steel].
Camel isn't indestructible and just gives extra endurance. He possesses immortality with the Ram alright but that doesn't make him [Steel] already.
And if Verethragna was [Steel], then Godou would have had an easier time against his first battle with Athena.
Lastly, there is nothing within Verethragna's lore that fits the story's definition of [Steel] of "immortality", "indestructibility", or "strong connection over snakes and dragons." Perseus is connected to Medusa, Ama no Murakumo is a sword which came from Yamata no Orochi, Sun Wukong bathed in a furnace and some other lores mixed in to get an immortal body, Siegfried slew a dragon and bathed in its blood to become invulnerable.
So no.
Verethragna has been mentioned to be [Steel], so your argument is over-ruled.

However, I think that Verethragna is/was a very "impure" [Steel] divinity. Remember, gods can be hybrids, with hybrids showing less and less traits of their fundamental nature, and showing greater complexity.
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Old 2013-06-15, 03:47   Link #7224
Moe Connection
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Originally Posted by Gore17 View Post
It's "a few times a year", not "once a few years". So months, not years. Plus, nothing says that Aisha can't manually activate it, just that she can't pick the destination.

And again: are we sure Aisha was born before the 19th century?



Verethragna has been mentioned to be [Steel], so your argument is over-ruled.

However, I think that Verethragna is/was a very "impure" [Steel] divinity. Remember, gods can be hybrids, with hybrids showing less and less traits of their fundamental nature, and showing greater complexity.
Your theory is interesting. Now that you think about it, Aisha might be even be from the future instead of being from the past. The 3rd century might only be the earliest date she has revealed herself to magicians.
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Old 2013-06-15, 04:07   Link #7225
Gore17
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Once more: can someone direct me to where we got that 1800 years old figure? I remember Kadi posting that figure, but I can't find anything in the series to back it up. Well, besides this recent time-travel. <.<
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Old 2013-06-15, 05:05   Link #7226
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Originally Posted by Gore17 View Post
Once more: can someone direct me to where we got that 1800 years old figure? I remember Kadi posting that figure, but I can't find anything in the series to back it up. Well, besides this recent time-travel. <.<
I tried finding where it was said but couldn't. Sorry.
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Old 2013-06-15, 05:07   Link #7227
erdii
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Originally Posted by Gore17 View Post
Verethragna has been mentioned to be [Steel], so your argument is over-ruled.

However, I think that Verethragna is/was a very "impure" [Steel] divinity. Remember, gods can be hybrids, with hybrids showing less and less traits of their fundamental nature, and showing greater complexity.

"Hoho, very well. Then Kusanagi Godou, I grant my blessing to thee who has been reborn as the new god-slaying king! Thou art the first person to usurp mine -- the authority of the god of victory! Becomest stronger than anyone else! Until the day I shall fight thee again, possessest my undefeatable body!" Verethragna

"Hmph, hahahahahahaha. How useless of you, Verethragna. To think the god of victory would meet defeat at the hands of a frail and weak human child" Melqart

"Yes, I understand what thou art trying to say. Even so, the fact remaineth, I am the undefeated god of victory, dost thou still wish to resist? It is better to obey honestly" Verethragna


if verethragna is steel then he doesn't know who he is
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Old 2013-06-15, 05:25   Link #7228
Hidfe
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Originally Posted by erdii View Post

if verethragna is steel then he doesn't know who he is
"Speaking of recent events that could have garnered the Old One's interest, how about the incident at Naples? The battle against Perseus."

'Ah yes, Amakasu-san called him the Hero of Steel, right?'

"Yes, Perseus is the archetypical hero of steel with the [Sword] attribute. Verethragna, who Kusanagi Godou unwittingly defeated, also belongs to the same category."

The ancestor of Verethragna, Mithra, also had a "born from stone" legend. There is also the Armenian war god Vahagn who has been called the brother of Verethragna. The hero god possessing flaming hair and beard, and born from the crimson sea.

Stones, in other words, ore, the origin of iron. Fire, to melt ore. Wind, to start fires and fan the flames. Water, to cool the newly forged metal. The intricate relationships between the elements are all essential to the various sword gods.

'Just like King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table?'
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Old 2013-06-15, 05:26   Link #7229
zzhk
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Steel is simply an attribute.

Being a god of victory doesn't exclude Verethragna from having other attributes.

It's not like Perseus, Sun Wukong, Lancelot and Siegfried are gods over steel per se, they are gods who exhibit the attribute of steel.
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Old 2013-06-15, 05:30   Link #7230
belatkuro
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Originally Posted by Gore17 View Post
Verethragna has been mentioned to be [Steel], so your argument is over-ruled.

However, I think that Verethragna is/was a very "impure" [Steel] divinity. Remember, gods can be hybrids, with hybrids showing less and less traits of their fundamental nature, and showing greater complexity.
Care to cite where and when was it mentioned? I can't seem to remember.

And I would agree that V-tan is a hybrid because the [White Stallion] which is a power of the sun, and the [Bull] and [Camel] which I remember were said to be earth related. However, the other incarnations don't exactly exhibit any semblance to the properties of [Steel] which I mentioned above. The [Ram] might be immortality but it's more related to the earth rather than the immortal properties of [Steel].
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Old 2013-06-15, 05:35   Link #7231
HasNoLove
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zzhk, yer work so damn fast...

it's already 75%, tonight it'll be done for chapter 4 right?

Thanks anyway
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Old 2013-06-15, 05:38   Link #7232
zzhk
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Originally Posted by belatkuro View Post
Care to cite where and when was it mentioned? I can't seem to remember.

And I would agree that V-tan is a hybrid because the [White Stallion] which is a power of the sun, and the [Bull] and [Camel] which I remember were said to be earth related. However, the other incarnations don't exactly exhibit any semblance to the properties of [Steel] which I mentioned above. The [Ram] might be immortality but it's more related to the earth rather than the immortal properties of [Steel].
I suppose the key sentence is:
"Yes, Perseus is the archetypical hero of steel with the [Sword] attribute. Verethragna, who Kusanagi Godou unwittingly defeated, also belongs to the same category."

It depends on what "same category" refers to exactly. Is it the entire description of being a "hero of steel with the [Sword] attribute" or just the part about bearing "the [Sword] attribute"? That's the question.

In any case, even if Verethragna is steel, he would be a highly impure and diluted example.
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Old 2013-06-15, 06:31   Link #7233
alviam099
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Originally Posted by belatkuro View Post
Care to cite where and when was it mentioned? I can't seem to remember.

And I would agree that V-tan is a hybrid because the [White Stallion] which is a power of the sun, and the [Bull] and [Camel] which I remember were said to be earth related. However, the other incarnations don't exactly exhibit any semblance to the properties of [Steel] which I mentioned above. The [Ram] might be immortality but it's more related to the earth rather than the immortal properties of [Steel].
Perseus aside from being a sun god, never exhibited any proof that he was a [Steel] if you read carefully.
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Old 2013-06-15, 07:16   Link #7234
Gore17
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Originally Posted by darthfanta View Post
I tried finding where it was said but couldn't. Sorry.
I'm more and more convinced that the "1800 years" thing was inaccurate information we all believed, and over time it became "canon" to us.

So until I get information contradicting such a belief/thought/position, I'm putting Aisha at 200+ years old, instead of 1800+.

Also, Godou needs to get his head looked at:
Quote:
Godou could understand Erica's suggestions. However, he was still only half-convinced.

Compared to this issue, he considered male and female sharing an open-air bath, conversing essentially nude to be a greater problem.
Godou, mate? Other way around.
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Old 2013-06-15, 08:04   Link #7235
Sozoshi
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Wasn´t Erica´s ancestor a campione?
Linde x Godou, anyone?
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Old 2013-06-15, 08:07   Link #7236
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Originally Posted by Gore17 View Post
I'm more and more convinced that the "1800 years" thing was inaccurate information we all believed, and over time it became "canon" to us.

So until I get information contradicting such a belief/thought/position, I'm putting Aisha at 200+ years old, instead of 1800+.

Also, Godou needs to get his head looked at:


Godou, mate? Other way around.
I must say I'm convinced I've read it somewhere in the novel though, just that I have no idea where I read it.
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Originally Posted by Sozoshi View Post
Wasn´t Erica´s ancestor a campione?
Linde x Godou, anyone?
Erica's ancestor was indeed a campione. I believe(not so sure) he lived between one hundred-two hundred years ago before present time.His illegitimate son established the Bronze Black Cross association using the esteem of his father.
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Old 2013-06-15, 08:16   Link #7237
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Wow, it´s usual to see Erica embarrassed like that considering all she´s willing and hoping to do with Godou in the future. At this point there no denying that all the girls love to see the wild side of Godou that only shows when facing an incredible battle or when he´s deeply worried for them as seeing in the balttle against the Monkey King.
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Old 2013-06-15, 08:38   Link #7238
Gore17
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Originally Posted by darthfanta View Post
I must say I'm convinced I've read it somewhere in the novel though, just that I have no idea where I read it.
Erica's ancestor was indeed a campione. I believe(not so sure) he lived between one hundred-two hundred years ago before present time.His illegitimate son established the Bronze Black Cross association using the esteem of his father.
I believe it was 10+ generations ago. So 200+ years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haseo0408 View Post
Wow, it´s usual to see Erica embarrassed like that considering all she´s willing and hoping to do with Godou in the future. At this point there no denying that all the girls love to see the wild side of Godou that only shows when facing an incredible battle or when he´s deeply worried for them as seeing in the balttle against the Monkey King.
She can talk the talk, but when it comes to walk the walk, she ends up stumbling.
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Old 2013-06-15, 08:40   Link #7239
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Originally Posted by haseo0408 View Post
Wow, it´s usual to see Erica embarrassed like that considering all she´s willing and hoping to do with Godou in the future. At this point there no denying that all the girls love to see the wild side of Godou that only shows when facing an incredible battle or when he´s deeply worried for them as seeing in the balttle against the Monkey King.
Anyone will back down if the opposition turn the table or when one lets their guard down. Meaning Erica didn't expect that at all.
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Old 2013-06-15, 09:09   Link #7240
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I wonder whats Doni been up to until now. It doesn't seem like he was brought to the same time or else Godou would surely here news about him unless he is just happily cutting those "dragons" in half this whole time.
Maybe when Godou and the others get back to the present, they'll find an illustration of Doni in a history book.
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