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Old 2013-12-21, 23:57   Link #9161
Trung-t-rung
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LOL at Godou being the bringer of storm and calamities. and that is even by Campione's standard of troublemaking.
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Old 2013-12-22, 00:29   Link #9162
Endscape
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
I liked the Batraz theory myself, but it has too many holes. The KoTe doesn't have the steel body that he would almost have to have if he was Batraz, and I couldn't find anything to indicate a similarity or connection to the Argonauts.

Pluto isn't even worth considering, as he wouldn't be a steel no matter how you look at it.

....if it wasn't for the supposed connection to the Argonauts I could come up with some better guesses. I'm not that confident with the Hector guess either, as he doesn't have the "wandering" element that the KoTe is supposed to have. Argh, this is pissing me off. You'd think there should be a standout character that fits the criteria by this point.
Actually, Batraz does have a connection to the Argonauts, though it's tenuous. Sybaelc, another hero from the Nart sagas like Batraz, has a legend that is similar to that of Jason.

As for the immortality, judging from what I've read about Batraz, his immortality revolving around his sword makes perfect sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trung-t-rung View Post
LOL at Godou being the bringer of storm and calamities. and that is even by Campione's standard of troublemaking.
What's really hilarious is that Godou and Aisha's descriptions are worse than Doni's.
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Old 2013-12-22, 10:27   Link #9163
bludvein
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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
Actually, Batraz does have a connection to the Argonauts, though it's tenuous. Sybaelc, another hero from the Nart sagas like Batraz, has a legend that is similar to that of Jason.

As for the immortality, judging from what I've read about Batraz, his immortality revolving around his sword makes perfect sense.



What's really hilarious is that Godou and Aisha's descriptions are worse than Doni's.
Batraz obtained an immortal body with his training, which is pretty archetypical of the more standard steel body immortality.

...and that connection to the Argonauts is beyond tenuous. Your saying a completely different character in the Nart sagas is kind of similar to Jason. If you cast the net that wide it brings in a truly large amount of characters.

Plus, another thing I thought of is that the KotE was created for the purpose of killing godslayers, and the myth that created them originated with Pandora. Makes it likely that the KotE is a greek or roman myth.
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Old 2013-12-22, 11:14   Link #9164
Superbia
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Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
Batraz obtained an immortal body with his training, which is pretty archetypical of the more standard steel body immortality.

...and that connection to the Argonauts is beyond tenuous. Your saying a completely different character in the Nart sagas is kind of similar to Jason. If you cast the net that wide it brings in a truly large amount of characters.

Plus, another thing I thought of is that the KotE was created for the purpose of killing godslayers, and the myth that created them originated with Pandora. Makes it likely that the KotE is a greek or roman myth.
Being tenuous doesn't make it worng. Perseus and Mitras connection was the fact that they were both someone who came from the East.

Also Sun Wukong wasn't greek or roman and he was still able to draw out the power meant to slay Campiones, possibly because of his strong connections with Batraz Godou mentioned when he fought Sun Wukong.

Quote:
"In one of the former lands of the Scythians, the Caucasus, the legend of the hero Batraz still remains. For the sake of training, the hero cast himself into a fiery furnace during his youth. The fiery furnace where he chose to train in the scorching heat was the place where dragons were slain and corpses were incinerated. In the end, having his body burned by the scorching flames, Batraz jumped into the sea to cool down, and thus completed his training. As a result, he obtained an immortal body."

Using the [Sword] to separate the ectoplasm from the Great Sage's physical body, Godou searched deep to look for Hikari.

"This legend is extremely similar to the beginnings of the Great Sage Equaling Heaven, Sun Wukong. Thus the Scythian hero shares essentially the same origins as the monkey. Without a doubt, the people who gave Sun Wukong and the Scythian sword god the same back story were the nomadic tribes who were assimilated into Chinese culture!"
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Old 2013-12-22, 11:28   Link #9165
bludvein
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Originally Posted by Superbia View Post
Being tenuous doesn't make it worng. Perseus and Mitras connection was the fact that they were both someone who came from the East.

Also Sun Wukong wasn't greek or roman and he was still able to draw out the power meant to slay Campiones, possibly because of his strong connections with Batraz Godou mentioned when he fought Sun Wukong.
Well I admit it being a weak link is not a real problem if the author wants to go that way, but if that was the case then why would Circe give the Argo as a hint? That's not much of one if you have to stretch it that far to make sense.

Sun Wukong could use an imitation because he shares the [steel] trait rather than any direct relation between myths. Sort of like how Lancelot could mimic the KotE's earth-draining authority to use the divine sword. At least that was my interpretation.

Plus, the quote you gave pretty much proves my point. Batraz should have the steel body going by that, instead of the different immortality that the KotE is shown to have.
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Old 2013-12-22, 14:37   Link #9166
Endscape
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
Well I admit it being a weak link is not a real problem if the author wants to go that way, but if that was the case then why would Circe give the Argo as a hint? That's not much of one if you have to stretch it that far to make sense.
It does make a little sense. What are the Argonauts most famous for? Going to Colchis to get the Golden Fleece. I already pointed out how that ties into Batraz and the Nart saga. Plus, Colchis is in Georgia, around the same area the tales of the Nart saga came from.

Quote:
Plus, the quote you gave pretty much proves my point. Batraz should have the steel body going by that, instead of the different immortality that the KotE is shown to have.
I can see what you're saying, but that's not necessarily the case. Part of Batraz's legend is how his life is intertwined with his sword, so his immortality being based on the state of his sword makes sense.
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Old 2013-12-22, 17:56   Link #9167
AKAAkira
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All right, so.

I recently wrote a Sword Art Online fanfic crossed over with Campione!. Now, I note at the very beginning AN of that fic that I wasn't exactly fluent in Campione! canon, and I haven't followed it nearly as closely as I do SAO. That said, I assumed I understood about the general concept of Heretic Gods, magic, Authorities, etc. of Campione! to write a story while remaining fairly accurate to those mechanics.

Few days after posting, I'm not so sure anymore.

Granted, it might just be a case of post-publication slump, which do hit me particularly hard...but all the same I'd be reassured if I heard some feedback from people who know Campione! much more thoroughly than I do. Basically, I'm asking for a favour which sums up to "Please read my story and burn me at the stake for every instance my attempts to explain away an action looks apocryphal". Even if I don't end up editing the story (again) afterwards, at least I'll learn more about Campione! and maybe be able to patch up the blunder in following chapters in a more acceptable manner.

Even if you can't find anything to say for the parts that stray from canon, I accept criticism of my writing style as well - it's still not matured to my liking. Part of it is explained by my rush to publish but I'd still like to hear a formulated opinion on what I did wrong, all the same.

Story's posted here: Flames of Divinity.

This story is a crossover with SAO, so some knowledge of it is advised, since it takes place after Alicization.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 2013-12-22, 19:01   Link #9168
edrey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKAAkira View Post
All right, so.

I recently wrote a Sword Art Online fanfic crossed over with Campione!. Now, I note at the very beginning AN of that fic that I wasn't exactly fluent in Campione! canon, and I haven't followed it nearly as closely as I do SAO. That said, I assumed I understood about the general concept of Heretic Gods, magic, Authorities, etc. of Campione! to write a story while remaining fairly accurate to those mechanics.

Few days after posting, I'm not so sure anymore.

Granted, it might just be a case of post-publication slump, which do hit me particularly hard...but all the same I'd be reassured if I heard some feedback from people who know Campione! much more thoroughly than I do. Basically, I'm asking for a favour which sums up to "Please read my story and burn me at the stake for every instance my attempts to explain away an action looks apocryphal". Even if I don't end up editing the story (again) afterwards, at least I'll learn more about Campione! and maybe be able to patch up the blunder in following chapters in a more acceptable manner.

Even if you can't find anything to say for the parts that stray from canon, I accept criticism of my writing style as well - it's still not matured to my liking. Part of it is explained by my rush to publish but I'd still like to hear a formulated opinion on what I did wrong, all the same.

Story's posted here: Flames of Divinity.

This story is a crossover with SAO, so some knowledge of it is advised, since it takes place after Alicization.

Thanks in advance.
from where do i start?

first liliana and erica wouldn't fight heretic gods alone, even with young incarnation, that is stupid, they will call godou with the wind incarnation

second, even the weakest god wouldn't fall for the sword attack of a human unless that human has skills like the sword of nothingness like doni and that wasn't enought because he had a very long battle

i had read sao as wel as campione and i can tell that you didn't read campione at all
neither asuna, kirito nor alice fit the category of heavenly child of disaster like godou or the other campiones so i recommend you to read campione before making any fanfic about it

Last edited by edrey; 2013-12-22 at 21:17.
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Old 2013-12-22, 20:33   Link #9169
Feng Lengshun
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Indeed, there are quite some research failure in there. For starter, there's the power level of Godou's harem and the Heretic Gods. According to a recent debate we've had in the Campione! FFN forum, Godou's harem is about Middle-Class Devil in DxD term (meaning they could survive a mountain-busting attack), much, much higher than Asuna that is (so whatever they can't handle, Asuna can't handle too). Then there's the God, they need Golgotha/Bow of Jonathan Spell Words to get pass the Invincibility Barrier (which I would place to be at least Touhou Youkai's Level and at most Rance Demons Level). Also, all of the Gods are proficient at everything (especially since considering Castor and Pollux are Gods of Greek Pantheon and heroism there are defined by how strong of a warrior one is).

Research asides, it's well-written, but that's that. We (Mechanics of IF forum) pretty much called GSBW a well-written crap, and it's similar here too. Oh, and it doesn't seems to be consistent too (soul and mind are different things in Campione!, soul in Campione! is ectoplasm). While in terms of writing it was okay, there are way too many research failure that it broke my SoD faster than Merging with Myths did. Crown of Dreams had better justification than that. You'd want to read the LN first before continuing, because I shudder at how bad the fights against [Steel] Gods will be.
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Old 2013-12-23, 09:17   Link #9170
Yye1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKAAkira View Post
All right, so.

I recently wrote a Sword Art Online fanfic crossed over with Campione!. Now, I note at the very beginning AN of that fic that I wasn't exactly fluent in Campione! canon, and I haven't followed it nearly as closely as I do SAO. That said, I assumed I understood about the general concept of Heretic Gods, magic, Authorities, etc. of Campione! to write a story while remaining fairly accurate to those mechanics.

Few days after posting, I'm not so sure anymore.

Granted, it might just be a case of post-publication slump, which do hit me particularly hard...but all the same I'd be reassured if I heard some feedback from people who know Campione! much more thoroughly than I do. Basically, I'm asking for a favour which sums up to "Please read my story and burn me at the stake for every instance my attempts to explain away an action looks apocryphal". Even if I don't end up editing the story (again) afterwards, at least I'll learn more about Campione! and maybe be able to patch up the blunder in following chapters in a more acceptable manner.

Even if you can't find anything to say for the parts that stray from canon, I accept criticism of my writing style as well - it's still not matured to my liking. Part of it is explained by my rush to publish but I'd still like to hear a formulated opinion on what I did wrong, all the same.

Story's posted here: Flames of Divinity.

This story is a crossover with SAO, so some knowledge of it is advised, since it takes place after Alicization.

Thanks in advance.
I enjoyed, its pretty interesting, well done. You going to continue it?
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Old 2013-12-23, 09:39   Link #9171
erdii
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this Argonauts thing is annoying. there at least 40 to 50 of them. Argonauts candidates number up to 85 according wikipedia. and author must have investigated this more than us so a hero whose name we don't know but exist in reality may end up being KotE. the Batraz thing mentioned above is interesting but it has ties to Arthur but we know from the story that KotE has no connection to Arthur. Arthur came from Artos. Artos was the son of Artio and he wasn't KotE. Artio named KotE as Artos, he didn't name himself as Artos. so ı don't think KotE has any connection to any Arthur legend.

this is thoughts. Guinevere made the same mistake and associated KotE with Artos and created Heretic Arthur. well this Arthur thing escalated so much that KotE may end up being Merlin

I hope KotE real identy is a god that would greatly suprises us
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Old 2013-12-23, 10:09   Link #9172
bakapervert
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Originally Posted by AKAAkira View Post
All right, so.

I recently wrote a Sword Art Online fanfic crossed over with Campione!. Now, I note at the very beginning AN of that fic that I wasn't exactly fluent in Campione! canon, and I haven't followed it nearly as closely as I do SAO. That said, I assumed I understood about the general concept of Heretic Gods, magic, Authorities, etc. of Campione! to write a story while remaining fairly accurate to those mechanics.

Few days after posting, I'm not so sure anymore.

Granted, it might just be a case of post-publication slump, which do hit me particularly hard...but all the same I'd be reassured if I heard some feedback from people who know Campione! much more thoroughly than I do. Basically, I'm asking for a favour which sums up to "Please read my story and burn me at the stake for every instance my attempts to explain away an action looks apocryphal". Even if I don't end up editing the story (again) afterwards, at least I'll learn more about Campione! and maybe be able to patch up the blunder in following chapters in a more acceptable manner.

Even if you can't find anything to say for the parts that stray from canon, I accept criticism of my writing style as well - it's still not matured to my liking. Part of it is explained by my rush to publish but I'd still like to hear a formulated opinion on what I did wrong, all the same.

Story's posted here: Flames of Divinity.

This story is a crossover with SAO, so some knowledge of it is advised, since it takes place after Alicization.

Thanks in advance.
While Feng's SoD got broken pretty fast, your story is written pretty well with some interesting idea for me that I don't really care much if some details is not really fit. Hope you will continue that story. Though if you want some critic, I do feel that the twins sword skill from your explanation seems too pitiful for a god, even if they have no legend for skilled with sword, a god is supposed to be pretty talented at everything that they should at least have a decent sword skill, also for Asuna to be able to put up some fight against heretic god, even though those god is using method that is not their strong point and her being backed up with Erica and Liliana, seems quite unbelievable, for example Kirito when he spar with Suguha in the real world, he got defeated in the end. For Asuna using normal body that is not strenghtened with magic putting a fight with heretic god seems unlikely.
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Old 2013-12-23, 10:37   Link #9173
Feng Lengshun
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^

Yep, agreed with the first sentence there. It would be much better if the method of Asuna becoming a Campione was tweaked. Personally, I think you're wanking the Asuna way too much, at least much harder than GB wanked his own Asuna (even in his, they're only Lower to Middle Class Devil).

If you want critic, you should ask the people in the Campione! FFN forum (linked on my sig) or The Mechanics of In Flight forum (this one's much more hardcore, but if you really want criticism, this is the best bet).
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Old 2013-12-25, 03:20   Link #9174
AKAAkira
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Riiight, definitely a good thing I asked then. I did read parts of Campione, but I definitely missed a few major concepts. Didn't know that the soul and mind were totally different things. And sure didn't know gods were supposed to be good at everything. (I guess that puts into context the Minotaur conveniently using a magic spell in his fight against Alec?)

At this point I doubt I'd be able to "fix" the fight anymore, not without overhauling it beyond what I'm willing to at least, so I guess that'll put off some future readers even if I did patch it with hopefully satisfactory explanations in the future. On the other hand, at least I did actually come up with the aforementioned explanations for them. Plus a plot point, and character development, and a solid direction for the story out of this. So hey, this was pretty productive. Thanks for that, guys.

I'll look around those other forums too, seems like a good place to check out.
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Old 2013-12-25, 05:45   Link #9175
Feng Lengshun
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Yeah, it's just mostly how you started things up that's a problem, though it might carry problem into the main story as well. Court of Devil Kings (the Campione! FFN forum) is... well, mostly okay, but can be somewhat silent at times. The Mechanics of In Flight has been called a group of "Rabid Haters" once, but we're mostly okay when you compare us to, say, Beast Lair (this one's called "elitist douchebags").

As long as you don't get thrown to the hated story thread anyway. There was once a two pages discussion, when a page still had 50 posts, that points out everything that's wrong with one F/sn-Bleach xover, but at the same time, they can give legit advices too (I'm actually asking there for help with planning my next fic, a DxD story, since I have to re-read it to get some facts straight). It's one of the most active forum there is in FFN that isn't a completely anything-goes forum. Though most of us there hates (canon) SAO (and loves Accel World) but just that. We do love things like High School SAO and Fate/Revelation Online since they're actually pretty good.
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Old 2013-12-25, 11:27   Link #9176
Yye1
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I liked High School SAO, anymore good crossover fanfics u would recommend?
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Old 2013-12-25, 11:52   Link #9177
Feng Lengshun
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Which crossovers? Well, let's see... Fate/Revelation Online was good, and there's Maybe I'm a Lion, Labyrinth of Fate, Enslaved... well, just go check the Favs in my profile or go through the Recommended Stories thread in IF Mechanics forum.

I think we're getting off-topic here, so... I'll try to get it back on topic again. Let's see... well, how about "What's your thought on Godou's latest character development?"
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Old 2013-12-25, 12:18   Link #9178
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Originally Posted by Feng Lengshun View Post

I think we're getting off-topic here, so... I'll try to get it back on topic again. Let's see... well, how about "What's your thought on Godou's latest character development?"
I'm liking it.Godou is finally admitting that he needs the girls and willing to kiss them. I'm just glad not all his restraints is removed. I would not like a playboy Godou.
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Old 2013-12-25, 20:56   Link #9179
Ickarium
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Me neither.

I'm hoping for a 'Godou who realizes he loves them and accepts it, but isn't going to turn into Uldin.'

I don't think he will, but still.
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Old 2013-12-25, 22:28   Link #9180
Feng Lengshun
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Hm... me, I felt that it's refreshing to look at, but I'm a bit iffy about it.

See, from the past characterization, his 'denial' has been a defining part of his characterization. And now, it disappeared. I don't know, it felt like there's something missing now, as if Godou isn't Godou anymore. It would be like if Issei stopped being a pervert. It just became... bland. It kind of felt like a blander and less audacious version of Tohno Shiki (combination of Tsuki's and CP's, that is).

Then from the method. What we have here is that him, suddenly, in the middle of a battle saying that. About... two chapters ago, he's still hesitant about it. Then, at the next moment, he simply just "Meh, can't be helped" without undergoing some major conflict/event right before it. That's just... not how characters in a story supposed to get character developments, it just felt like it came out of nowhere. The fact that Campione! was never heavy in self-introspection, character monologues, character's thoughts made it worse. Maybe if there had been more inner thoughts or monologue, it would feel less out of nowhere, but as it is, it felt like it just suddenly came. The impression is weak too, since it didn't have any "Bam!" event to it that would make me thought "Oh, that made sense for a guy to become like that after being pushed through that kind of event". Kind of.

As for the last, it would be the moral implication. Basically, what it said was "Well it's fine to act like a jerk since you have done it several times anyway and they don't seem to mind!" In other words, not a very good moral aesop. In self-help tips, it has been said that "Be yourself," is a bullshit advice, instead the right one would be "Be yourself, unless your self sucks, then don't be yourself," with the meaning that if your true self is a jerk, then you change it into something that isn't a jerk. And it made sense; what's the point of acting like a jerk? Mind, he's not actually a jerk and all that, but the gist of the implication is that. Just replace it with "jerk-like true self".

All in all, I will say that in the end I do welcome a change. I have been waiting for a character development for a long time, so I'll take what I can get. Personally, I felt like it was a regress. This far, Godou has done a... decent job at trying to be different from the other Campione (i.e. not being a jerk) but now, it felt like it just said "Fuck it" and decided to become just like them. He had been on the right track, even if he hadn't been doing a nice job of it, but now it was all just thrown away. Even then, I would have understood it if there had been some particularly epic event/conflict before it, but there wasn't one (reason why I wrote that one snippet in the Campione! FFN forum). That was why I was particularly disappointed. It's not at the change in particular, but the execution. To me, it all felt so... "In Flight" (the fanfic).
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