AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Naruto

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-01-20, 11:10   Link #81
james0246
Senior Member
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Better is an understatement, a bad buildup would have been something to go by at least, here with have litteraly nothing.
And this is why I hope none of the Konoha-11 pops up (save for maybe Sakura or Hinata). You just know that any involvement on their part will result in this truly badly done character development that has next to no definition and makes little to no sense. If the series (or at least Part 2) needs to end badly, then all we can hope is that Kishimoto doesn't drag all his characters through the mud for the ending...
james0246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-20, 11:34   Link #82
Jouten
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
And that didn't happen? The Kyubi just brofisted Naruto! Now think about it just for a second : imagine your reaction if someone had told you two weeks ago that the Kyubi and Naruto were going to look at one another with matching smiles and brofist each other. I mean, I joked about belly scratching but do you really think it's outside the realm of possibility right now?
By the end of the fight, Tobi will brofist Naruto, too. I'll take any bet.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gvH5ATjShc
Gear Third: Gomu Gomu Giganto Pistol!
Jouten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-20, 11:43   Link #83
Shiryuu
Magical Boy
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Hiding... don't try to find me.
Age: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jouten View Post
By the end of the fight, Tobi will brofist Naruto, too. I'll take any bet.
He'll brofist him with his face. Repeatedly.
__________________

DOCKING MODE~
Shiryuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-20, 11:44   Link #84
james0246
Senior Member
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jouten View Post
By the end of the fight, Tobi will brofist Naruto, too. I'll take any bet.
No, the entire purpose of Tobi is to be killed. Sasuke will get his redemption only becuase Kishimoto gave us Tobi to be killed...
james0246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-20, 12:34   Link #85
itachi-san314
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Yeah we do realize. What you seem to have missed however is how the author developed this plot over only 3 (if that) of those 570 chapters.
To put things into perspective, in Narutoverse-time all instances of Naruto wanting to make friend with the Kyubi are from today. Remember Naruto fighting to the death over the Kyubi's chakra and witnessing the murder of his parents? That was barely 24 hours ago.
Everybody with half a brain knew that Naruto was either going to befriend the Kyubi or be freed from it (or possibly both) for years, the problem is the complete lack of buildup to this point. Kurama since that's his name went from the incarnation of hatred and destruction to a friendly puppy in little over 5 minutes.
I totally agree. one thing in kishi's defense though: naruto conquered the last bit of hatred he had left. it didnt make much of a difference when he fought the kyuubi, but now the kyuubi doesn't have anything to work with inside naruto and its not as easy for him to hate anymore since he has no hatred inside naruto to latch onto.

Quote:
They have not, they went all out to hold up 2 of those 5 for a couple of minutes at most and didn't manage to hurt them in any way in the process. That doesn't seem far-fetched for ninja as good as Kakashi and Gai.
then what have the other 3 stage 2 jinchuuriki been doing all this time? If not fighting then just sitting there? then why even bother to transform? I just assumed they were all fighting in the background.

I agree that kakashi and gai could each fight one of them. but not 2.5 each
itachi-san314 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-20, 13:51   Link #86
neshru
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Better is an understatement, a bad buildup would have been something to go by at least, here with have litteraly nothing.
Again, I disagree. As sudden as this chapter was, I did get the impression that the Kyuubi had developed a sort of affection for Naruto over the years. I can buy the idea, for once I don't feel like Kishimoto is pulling something out of his ass (and I've had that impression more than once in the past, while reading this series).
neshru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-20, 14:00   Link #87
itachi-san314
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by neshru View Post
Again, I disagree. As sudden as this chapter was, I did get the impression that the Kyuubi had developed a sort of affection for Naruto over the years. I can buy the idea, for once I don't feel like Kishimoto is pulling something out of his ass (and I've had that impression more than once in the past, while reading this series).
could you point out which parts those were? I only remember him wanting to trick naruto into freeing him time and again and kill everyone. in the search for sasuke arc he was still mean and tried to trick naruto, then sasuke suppressed him. in the pain attacks arc he used naruto's anger to release the seal and then was extremely volatile when minato sealed him back up. and when he was unsealed behind the waterfall of truth he was the most dangerous and nasty ever imo.

edit: that being said I dont have as much of a problem with the current turn of events as others seem to. i think naruto conquering his hatred explains the personality change a bit. i do think it should have been drawn out more though. it should have been a much longer and arduous task for naruto to befriend him imho
itachi-san314 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-20, 14:11   Link #88
neshru
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
could you point out which parts those were? I only remember him wanting to trick naruto into freeing him time and again and kill everyone.
I'm not saying he's ever treated Naruto like a friend. But it is possible to get attached even to someone you don't really like. The Kyuubi may have tried to trick Naruto, but I didn't get the impression that was all there was to their relationship.
neshru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-20, 15:08   Link #89
Ero-Senn1n
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hidden Village of Sake
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
24 hours ago Naruto and the Kyubi were fighting to the death,
That's how Naruto changes people: Gaara, Neji, etc.
The method used is not some kind of evolution but it's some kind of revolution. A revolution in the relationship. While they fight Naruto doesn't want the opponent's death or anything like that. He told Neji he would change the hyuuga, and just like that he told Kurama that he wants to help him drop all his hatred. The only case when Naruto failed was against Sasuke, but he lost that battle, and now it seems they will have another battle in the near future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
20 minutes ago he stopped when Edo Madara came to unlife
I think that was more like "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and it seems that for Kurama the most hated person is Madara.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
and 1 minute ago Kurama suddenly decided they were bff.
It's that stupid.
The usual flashbacks were meant to explain everything, as it seems Kurama had grown some kind of respect for Naruto while watching from inside, but his hatred was much stronger than that in the past, this reunion with the other tailed beasts and their chatting was meant to have a serious impact on Kurama's thinking.

One important thing is that Kurama never says they are now "bff", and he doesn't look like he wants to be friends with Naruto the same way as 8-tails with Bee, so it's more like his respect for Naruto has now grown to a level where it's about the same as his hate level. I think Kishimoto may add a temporary betrayal, to spice up this battle or the next one.

Also Kurama can have a quite logical reason to help Naruto: if Tobi succeeds he will cease to exist, his soul will be built into the 10-tails. Before this 10-tails thing was revealed it was said that even if the host dies the demon will later reappear in the world, so it seems the demons are immortal. But now Kurama faces death if Tobi succeeds. But in this chapter we didn't see any sign of Kurama fearing death, so i guess the author didn't mean that to be a reason.

But even taking all this into account i have to agree that this was too sudden, as i wrote a few chapters ago it would be better to upgrade Naruto's strength in a different way, i would have preferred a slower pace of kyuubi's conversion.
Ero-Senn1n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-20, 15:31   Link #90
krispin149
漫画家
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New York
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by neshru View Post
I'm not saying he's ever treated Naruto like a friend. But it is possible to get attached even to someone you don't really like. The Kyuubi may have tried to trick Naruto, but I didn't get the impression that was all there was to their relationship.
completely agree, plus, we don't really know what's going to happen after they defeat their mutual foe...
__________________
Tu muerte es lenta pero segura.
krispin149 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-20, 17:19   Link #91
itachi-san314
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by neshru View Post
I'm not saying he's ever treated Naruto like a friend. But it is possible to get attached even to someone you don't really like. The Kyuubi may have tried to trick Naruto, but I didn't get the impression that was all there was to their relationship.
I understand your sentiment, I would just like to see an example from the manga that would elude to the kyuubi having some kind of personal bond with naruto that wasn't just a tactic or trick to escape. It's an interesting thought because it would help make this very sudden change of heart more palatable, so I would like to see it for myself. my hunch is that it doesn't exist though
itachi-san314 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-20, 20:03   Link #92
bonsobon
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Quote:
I understand your sentiment, I would just like to see an example from the manga that would elude to the kyuubi having some kind of personal bond with naruto that wasn't just a tactic or trick to escape. It's an interesting thought because it would help make this very sudden change of heart more palatable, so I would like to see it for myself. my hunch is that it doesn't exist though
The only thing I can think of that might apply is when Naruto met the kyuubi while falling down the canyon and demanded its chakra for rent. Kyuubi said he had guts for asking that and did so. It could be interpreted that it had some sort of respect for Naruto even back then. Not the best example I suppose but at least it's something.
bonsobon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-21, 05:05   Link #93
itachi-san314
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonsobon View Post
The only thing I can think of that might apply is when Naruto met the kyuubi while falling down the canyon and demanded its chakra for rent. Kyuubi said he had guts for asking that and did so. It could be interpreted that it had some sort of respect for Naruto even back then. Not the best example I suppose but at least it's something.
I see what you're saying, but like you said that was the first time they met so it's not any kind of bonding and it was more truthful than anything imo. it does take guts to demand anything from a giant demon fox you just met =)

if kurama did gain any respect for that then it was clearly lost right away which doesn't really make sense to me. kurama's development would have had to keep escalating, not just hit a brick wall right after their first meeting.
itachi-san314 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-21, 10:41   Link #94
Midnight Commander
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Command center, the ship's bridge
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
That's how Naruto changes people: Gaara, Neji, etc.
The kyuubi isn't a person though, and its a very different entity compared to those characters :/

You know, its not like Kishimoto didn't have all the time in the world to work on it gradually. I think there are a great many pages wasted on nonsense, where we could have had a brief conversation between Naruto and the Kyuubi instead, building towards this current friendship; something like the Kyuubi constantly tempting Naruto, only to witness Naruto pulling off great feats without using hatred, and thus gradually admiring Naruto. It wouldn't even have to be much, just a few panels sprinkled throughout maybe every 3-4 chapters or at least maybe every fight, to convey to the readers: hey pay attention, the Kyuubi is starting to warm up to Naruto's charisma.

It almost seems as if this freindship was a last minute decision, but thats hard to believe all things considered... With that said, I'm not against the friendship, I just thought it seemed rushed.
Midnight Commander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-21, 10:59   Link #95
Ero-Senn1n
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hidden Village of Sake
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
The kyuubi isn't a person though, and its a very different entity compared to those characters :/
As i understood the root of their hatred toward humans was exactly this thinking, that they are not treated equally. Something similar to racism and slavery, they were treated as tools that belong to ninjas. It doesn't matter what is your body (can be a robot, a large animal body, etc.) if you have a human-level intellect and feelings you want to be treated equally, or you eventually get very angry. And the point in this chapter was that they began to believe that Naruto is not just another human who is lying to them just because in this situation he needs their help. Naruto, as simple as he is, just wants to treat them as someone equal to him, and as always he can understand their pain of being used and wants to help them the same way he understood Neji and Gaara and even Sasuke. The kyuubi's flashback was to show how the kyuubi verified that Naruto's words are not lies by remembering Naruto's past deeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
I think there are a great many pages wasted on nonsense,
I wouldn't call any chapter of this manga nonsense. Sure there were less important chapters, but they all had a meaning even if sometimes the author didn't achieve the intended effect on all the readers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
where we could have had a brief conversation between Naruto and the Kyuubi instead,
I think both Naruto and the kyuubi are not the kind of people who would make "conversations", they are simple minds in this matter, they use less words and more action.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
building towards this current friendship;
I don't think we can call their current relationship friendship, yet. The Kyuubi respects Naruto, thinks he is not like the other humans are, and he also hates Madara and Tobi more than other humans, but calling all this friendship is a bit too much.
Ero-Senn1n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-21, 12:38   Link #96
Midnight Commander
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Command center, the ship's bridge
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
As i understood the root of their hatred toward humans was exactly this thinking, that they are not treated equally. Something similar to racism and slavery, they were treated as tools that belong to ninjas. [...]
I'm pretty certain you missed my point. Just to be clear, I'm discussing this from an out-of-story perspective so, Bijuu's civil rights aside... I think the kyuubi warming up to Naruto should have been more gradual because "Kurama" is not some troubled adolescent who's struggling with family issues that can be solved within a chapter, it was supposed to be comprised of a massive ball of malevolent chakra, strong enough for people to sense its hatred in the air when Naruto is using it.

I read and understood your point about being treated equally, however I think considering what "Kurama" is comprised of (hatred), the author should have shown the transition much smoother than this, and not throw it all at the audience in such a short period of time.

Quote:
I wouldn't call any chapter of this manga nonsense. Sure there were less important chapters, but they all had a meaning even if sometimes the author didn't achieve the intended effect on all the readers.
I specificallly said pages. There are many pages that could have been put to very brief interludes containing forshadowing, to make for a smoother transition.

Quote:
I think both Naruto and the kyuubi are not the kind of people who would make "conversations", they are simple minds in this matter, they use less words and more action.
Unfortunatley, in a manga, where people read as well as view art, conversations would have probably done a better job at conveying the kyuubi gaining a gradual fondness for naruto :/

Quote:
I don't think we can call their current relationship friendship, yet. The Kyuubi respects Naruto, thinks he is not like the other humans are, and he also hates Madara and Tobi more than other humans, but calling all this friendship is a bit too much.
Perhaps, but I called it a "friendship" because of the Kyuubi smiling with Naruto and giving him a fist-bump. I think the events in the next chapter may solidify them as friends; likely something even more.
Midnight Commander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-21, 12:49   Link #97
james0246
Senior Member
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Commando View Post
Perhaps, but I called it a "friendship" because of the Kyuubi smiling with Naruto and giving him a fist-bump. I think the events in the next chapter may solidify them as friends; likely something even more.
LOL, Sorry, but I received many disturbing images based on this (in-bold) remark...

That being said, here's hoping that the Kyuubi's change of heart (however badly presented) will carry over into the eventual/potential Jyuubi.
james0246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-21, 13:02   Link #98
herculan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Birmingham
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyondsaving View Post
For those of you complaining how quick the 9 tails is becoming friends with Naruto, you do realize this is chapter five hundred seventy right?
And you do realize that those five hundred seventy chapters are the exact reason that this feels rushed? For five hundred sixty chapters the nine tailed fox has been purely evil and now he has suddenly learned how to smile and fight with naruto? The befriending process should have happend more spread out. The fox could have shown little signs of respect after the fight with pain or he could have showed even the slightest bit of sympathy after naruto's most recent encounter with sasuke. now it feels like this is coming out of nowhere. The fact that it has been made so obvious that the fox is a pure mass of hatred for five hundred sixty chapters is exactly the reason why it feels weird that the tailed beasts suddenly have feelings and names and are capable of compassion.
herculan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-21, 14:23   Link #99
Luminion Lancer
Time-diver
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Location is all relative.
...

-You know, looking at the two of them, Kurama and Naruto's situation evokes a folk story I heard once. A young traveling merchant encountered an ill-meaning nine-tailed fox. However, the merchant was able to get a hold of the "orb" it carried (the source of its power and life). The fox begged the merchant to return it, promising eternal companionship/loyalty and prosperity for the merchant and his descendants. The merchant showed kindness and returned the orb, when he could have easily killed the creature. The fox remained true to its word, and from that day forward, never left the merchant's side.

-I can understand people finding this development a bit rushed but I think people are forgetting some factors that worked towards this change, however abrupt.

-One of them was Killer Bee and his relationship with the Hachibi (I really want to know his name now). Killer Bee demonstrated that not only could a jinchuuriki and their bijuu work well together, but they could also be friends/comrades something which both Naruto and Kurama took note of.

-Another was Naruto conquering his own hatred/anger/darkness. Doing so naturally allowed him to gain some perspective on Kurama's situation. After all, if he can let go of his inner "demons", then there's no reason Kurama, who's obviously intelligent, couldn't learn to do the same or at least acknowledge a possiblity.

-Finally, the two of them have been in battle non-stop since entering the 2nd day of the war, with each battle escalating in stakes very quickly. I dunno, something tells me relationships develop fast when you're under constant enemy threat. And when said threat is equivalent to "you die, then the world goes all chicken-in-the-rain".

-As mentioned before, I loved this chapter. Its what I've been waiting for to happen for years. But I can see why others are having a bit of trouble accepting it. Fortunately, this is most likely only one step to where Naruto and Kurama ultimately end up. Let's just see where it goes ok?
__________________
-When all else fails, ram them with a force of an 18-wheeler.
Luminion Lancer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-21, 16:30   Link #100
Baragan
Member
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
I thought the 4 tails jinchuruki was an edo tensei then why is he not showing any signs of waking up not that he matters lol
Baragan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
weekly spoiler discussion

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.