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Old 2012-03-13, 05:31   Link #20101
sneaker
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That article leaves out some other, very important points:
- The secret services don't counter spies from "friendly nations" (the U.S. and France probably being the most active)
- They are not known for being competent

Then these laughable "punishments", like the one mentioned in the article. One year suspended sentence plus 4000 Euro fine, which translates to no punishment at all.

A few years ago a translator tried (or succeeded?) to sell plans for German submarines to China. Again, one year suspended sentence.

The other problem is that German management is totally greedy and practicably gives China all the know-how they want anyways. A big German chemical firm has a factory plus research nearby and they were very active to keep everything secret. Then they wanted to become more active on the Chinese market and now you could see Chinese go around the German factory and copying everything with the approval of the management. (Though this "happy" know-how transfer is probably prevalent in all big western companies.)
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Old 2012-03-13, 11:19   Link #20102
TigerII
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It is funny too, because Germany blames China for a lot of lost revenue. Plus, China does like to espy a lot.

I wonder if anyone has a system as developed as the Soviets did in the 30-50s.
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Old 2012-03-13, 12:22   Link #20103
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
It is funny too, because Germany blames China for a lot of lost revenue. Plus, China does like to espy a lot.

I wonder if anyone has a system as developed as the Soviets did in the 30-50s.
They already know alot to screw every country in the world. The reason why they don't do that is because of carried interest....they are just slowly playing their cards and manipulating each against another.

The US already had their military tech siphoned from a certain place in SEA - they hire permanent residents as their military commanders. I don't think I have to tell anyone here where it is.
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Old 2012-03-13, 13:16   Link #20104
TigerII
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
They already know alot to screw every country in the world. The reason why they don't do that is because of carried interest....they are just slowly playing their cards and manipulating each against another.

The US already had their military tech siphoned from a certain place in SEA - they hire permanent residents as their military commanders. I don't think I have to tell anyone here where it is.
I have heard(I doubt the actual time is real) that China's eArmy could destroy the infrastructure of any nation they go to war with in 4 hours.
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Old 2012-03-13, 14:04   Link #20105
flying ^
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it's (really) official...

China now has 3rd gen. stealth tech and won't be surprised if it finds its way in a J-20.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226296400154

... and this new revelations simply takes the cake

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03...ato-officials/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...s-details.html

Last edited by flying ^; 2012-03-13 at 14:19.
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Old 2012-03-13, 14:20   Link #20106
Urzu 7
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Originally Posted by TigerII View Post
I have heard(I doubt the actual time is real) that China's eArmy could destroy the infrastructure of any nation they go to war with in 4 hours.
What about the U.S.? What is their prowess with such a thing.
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Old 2012-03-13, 14:31   Link #20107
flying ^
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Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
What about the U.S.? What is their prowess with such a thing.
Libya theater could've been the perfect testbed... but U.S. is too modest and fear setting precedent others to follow.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/18/wo...ted-by-us.html
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Old 2012-03-13, 14:34   Link #20108
TigerII
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Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
What about the U.S.? What is their prowess with such a thing.
Well, that patriot hacker guy has been fucking with Iran for a while now. Maybe he is actually working for the US gov instead of by himself as he claims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
it's (really) official...

China now has 3rd gen. stealth tech and won't be surprised if it finds its way in a J-20.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226296400154

... and this new revelations simply takes the cake

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03...ato-officials/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...s-details.html
Guess the F-35

Last edited by TigerII; 2012-03-13 at 14:44.
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Old 2012-03-13, 17:18   Link #20109
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
it's (really) official...

China now has 3rd gen. stealth tech and won't be surprised if it finds its way in a J-20.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226296400154
Eh, I doubt it will change anything that much, given that Japan already has developed a counter to stealth fighters in the form of MIMO radars.
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Old 2012-03-13, 17:56   Link #20110
Ithekro
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Shealth is always a race between making something disappear and finding it with technology. Be it camoflague, radar benting shapes, radar absorption materials, or even optical masking/invisibility fields....someone will try to make a counter just as quickly at the new technology comes out.
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Old 2012-03-13, 18:47   Link #20111
TigerII
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Shealth is always a race between making something disappear and finding it with technology. Be it camoflague, radar benting shapes, radar absorption materials, or even optical masking/invisibility fields....someone will try to make a counter just as quickly at the new technology comes out.
Counter race is with any weapon development in general. New round to pierce armor, new armor to counter round,etc.

What I wonder is what will be done with the F-35 program now.
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Old 2012-03-13, 19:09   Link #20112
Ithekro
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The F-35 is still slated to replace a lot of late 1970s and 1980s aircraft, so it will probably still be completed and put into production. At least the A and C models. The B model is the one they seem to be having the technical trouble with.

If they don't, they will have a problem filling in the roles as those older aircraft become too old and worn out to service for combat duty.
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Old 2012-03-13, 19:25   Link #20113
ganbaru
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
If they don't, they will have a problem filling in the roles as those older aircraft become too old and worn out to service for combat duty.
There's still more than a fews US and european 4+generation fighter model than could remplace thoses olders one.
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Old 2012-03-13, 19:28   Link #20114
Mr Hat and Clogs
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Theyll add cloaking devices next.
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Old 2012-03-13, 19:30   Link #20115
Xellos-_^
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Theyll add cloaking devices next.
the romulans not going to like that.
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Old 2012-03-13, 21:57   Link #20116
aohige
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I say we start by giving this guy to the Afghan authorities... no, I don't care if he "had a breakdown". Many other soldiers will pay terrible prices for his few hours of cowardly executions of children and their families.
What I find the most disgusting, are the scores of sack of shits posting everywhere defending this soldier.
If an Arab was to do the exact same crime, he's a terrorist. But when an American soldier does it, they call him a victim of emotional breakdown.
I despise these double standard bigots, yet these Beck-Limbaugh wannabes seem to come out in droves.
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Old 2012-03-13, 22:15   Link #20117
MeoTwister5
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What did they call it now? Americocentrism?

I product of American social world view and education I suppose. A sense of superiority and entitlement that you are in the right, that any mistake you or your people do are excusable due to your stature.

It's a sad delusion.
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Old 2012-03-13, 22:21   Link #20118
Vexx
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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
What I find the most disgusting, are the scores of sack of shits posting everywhere defending this soldier.
If an Arab was to do the exact same crime, he's a terrorist. But when an American soldier does it, they call him a victim of emotional breakdown.
I despise these double standard bigots, yet these Beck-Limbaugh wannabes seem to come out in droves.
The only slack I'll offer is that we're over-extending the psyches of all our troops, deployment, deployment, deployment. The effects on their morale, the effects on their families are devastating. The brass keeps pretending that it doesn't result in PTSD and other traumatic psychological conditions. The base this guy is from has been investigated multiple times for denying treatment to PTSD victims, it has one of the highest rates of troop crime and malfeasance.

Its like My Lai... at some point you drive your troops close enough to the edge and some of them go over. Duh.

Does that excuse this guy (or anyone else who does this?)? No.... he murdered many children at close range in a methodical series of executions. There's no defense and its an insult to everyone else who is coping with the ridiculous conditions in the military. Conditions created by malicious idiots like Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney....
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Old 2012-03-13, 22:26   Link #20119
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
If an Arab was to do the exact same crime, he's a terrorist. But when an American soldier does it, they call him a victim of emotional breakdown.
I would imagine that he really did have a breakdown of some sort, but it doesn't make what he did excusable.

The problem with handing him over to the Afghans and allowing their justice system to sort him out is that it sets a precedent. As of now, America has largely resisted foreign justice systems scrutinizing our soldiers. If a soldier commits a crime, we bring him or her back and let the American justice system handle the case. Considering that a number of countries have rather corrupt justice systems, this is arguably a good thing. The problem is that it doesn't bring any closure to the country that suffered the crime.

In a way, it's a lose-lose situation. If we hand the soldier over, the government will receive backlash from people who claim that it isn't supporting the troops. It may also have negative consequences within the military. If we bring the soldier back to America, the Afghans will be left simmering. To be honest, though, the Afghans will likely be upset about the situation no matter where the soldier is prosecuted - and rightfully so. It would seem that the government would cut some of its losses by trying the soldier in the American justice system.
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Old 2012-03-13, 22:36   Link #20120
Vexx
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True.. its just that we've set poor precedent with that soldier who massacred Iraqi families. By the time it was whitewashed down, he got very little punishment.

(And you don't even want to look up the My Lai troops in Vietnam - they basically got away with it and the troops that tried to stop them spent 30 years being crucified before they were acknowledged as having tried to do the right thing)
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