AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-03-20, 00:00   Link #20281
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
Erm. That last one quite escapes me. How did secularism cause the fall of the USSR?
My mistake; was thinking of crony succession...intended to write that secularism had little or nothing to do with US coming out on top of the Cold War. Having LWS.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-20, 00:04   Link #20282
Ithekro
Warning
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 37
The old "Godless Commies" business, I think.


It seems more that we just managed to outspend them (or more accurately, force them to try to outspend us to the point where their economic and socio-political system could no longer afford to be in a Cold War with the USA). Gorbichev tried to make the system hold on even at the cost of bowing out of the Cold War, but it the strain had been too much by then, and some of the satelite states and client states wanted out.
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai! Signature by ganbaru
Rena's Saimoe Take Home List 2014: Dairenji Suzuka.Misawa Maho.
Ithekro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-20, 00:27   Link #20283
Kokukirin
Shadow of Effilisi
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Quote:
I strongly disagree with that view. I don't see how anyone could equate an unborn child with anyone else, nor why an unborn child's rights (if you want to give them any) should take priority over the mother's. From a practical standpoint, the mother should always take priority. We can't have limitless orphans, and children who are orphaned are at a distinct disadvantage compared to children raised by a loving family. Society stands nothing to gain from that; it can't support it. The dialogue that I prefer to have is that I understand their beliefs and concerns, but from a practical standpoint, abortion is for the better. In a perfect world it would not happen or even be necessary, but this is not a perfect world.
I don't think banning some of the abortion practice is necessarily "making decisions for the woman". In the abortion debate, there are two rights in conflict of each other. The unborn child, however, has absolutely no ability to protect its own rights. And therefore the protection of its right must come from another body, in this case from laws and regulations. The question is really where do we draw the line, and under which situations the rights of one party is more important. It is very much up to debate.

I also cannot agree with your idea that no abortion necessarily lead to unsustainable number of orphans. For one, there is a chance that the parents who might have aborted the child may still choose to raise him if abortion is not an option. Education and contraception practices already significantly reduce the need of abortion. The ever-lower birth rate in developed countries should increase adoption. Indeed the number of children in public foster care in US has steadily decreased over the years, from over 130k in 2002 to 114k in 2009. A number that is far from a serious burden for the US.

Personally I don't have a strong opinion on this. I am leaning towards legalizing abortion of most forms, excepting late term when the fetus has developed past a certain point and the operation is also riskier.
Kokukirin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-20, 00:46   Link #20284
Ledgem
Love Yourself
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokukirin View Post
I don't think banning some of the abortion practice is necessarily "making decisions for the woman". In the abortion debate, there are two rights in conflict of each other. The unborn child, however, has absolutely no ability to protect its own rights. And therefore the protection of its right must come from another body, in this case from laws and regulations. The question is really where do we draw the line, and under which situations the rights of one party is more important. It is very much up to debate.
I think that the question is, who is deserving of rights? My personal opinion is that the unborn child is, up until the late stages, a bundle of cells with the potential to become a human. In many ways, they are not so different from a cancer (and there are some conditions where implantation goes wrong and essentially is a cancer). It seems ridiculous to me to proclaim that such cells should be assigned rights. What's next - will I have to petition a court when I want to surgically remove a tumor growing within my body?

We don't even need to get into a rights discussion, though. The mother is alive and cognizant, capable of feeling and thinking. The unborn child, whether you believe them to be alive or not, is unfeeling, unthinking, and unaware of its existence (up until late stages of development). It would not care if it were aborted. Should something like that really be given priority, or even equal footing, with the mother?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokukirin View Post
I also cannot agree with your idea that no abortion necessarily lead to unsustainable number of orphans. For one, there is a chance that the parents who might have aborted the child may still choose to raise him if abortion is not an option. Education and contraception practices already significantly reduce the need of abortion. The ever-lower birth rate in developed countries should increase adoption.
Teen pregnancies in the United States have been decreasing, but they're still well elevated among the teen pregnancies in other western nations. This is still a very real issue.

"There is still a chance that the parents who might have aborted the child will choose to raise him" - true, there's always that chance. But having a child is a major burden. If the people having the child are not prepared, this will greatly limit their opportunities in life. If they're in high school, for example, how much harder will it be for them to go to college? If they're in college, will it impair their ability to finish, or go even farther? I don't have any statistics, but I would not be surprised if the majority of young parents who accidentally have a child end up stuck in the lower socioeconomic status bracket of society... because of their child.

"Education and contraception practices decreased the need for abortion" - in theory it would, yes. And this is where I also don't understand the Republican/religious right mindset. These people preach abstinence (which statistically has been proven ineffective) and seem anti-contraception. Throw in the desire to ban abortion and it's like they're setting people up to have children when they're not ready.

"Lower birth rate should increase adoption" - FALSE. Do you know why birth rates are declining? Because it's frickin' expensive to raise a child! The latest estimate that I heard is that it costs $250,000 to raise a child from ages 1-18. In other words, that number doesn't even account for college. If a parent wants to skimp on their kid then I'm sure the cost could be decreased, but that parent isn't exactly setting their child up for success in doing so. And isn't society better off when children are raised for success?
__________________
Ledgem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-20, 00:53   Link #20285
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kokukirin View Post
I don't think banning some of the abortion practice is necessarily "making decisions for the woman". In the abortion debate, there are two rights in conflict of each other. The unborn child,
I stopped the quote right there because using the term "unborn child" indicates a bias in the commentary, just as "Pro-life" is an inaccurate description of those that oppose abortion. You also have not established that a mass of fetal cells has a "right". Its just an assertion with no validation. It could just as easily be defined as an initial stage of male and female DNA combining, it certainly has no independent viability.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-20, 01:03   Link #20286
MeoTwister5
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Where I can learn to be lonely.
Age: 29
Some people hold that once the central nervous starts to work, that's when consciousness begins.

If we were speaking of nerve and brain cell activity, that nervous system activity validates any degree of brain activity of conscious thought and appreciation, then the fetus' brain activity realistically starts by the 5th week age of gestation, making that cutoff time scientifically speaking.

But again how would you define the existence of consciousness? The capacity for self-awareness is not something automatically observed; the organism in question needs to be able to communicate in some form to the rest of humanity that it has developed self-awareness. We can't exactly assume that the moment the CNS is formed the consciousness of the fetus has already started.
MeoTwister5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-20, 01:05   Link #20287
synaesthetic
blinded by blood
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 30
Send a message via AIM to synaesthetic Send a message via Skype™ to synaesthetic
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Some people hold that once the central nervous starts to work, that's when consciousness begins.

If we were speaking of nerve and brain cell activity, that nervous system activity validates any degree of brain activity of conscious thought and appreciation, then the fetus' brain activity realistically starts by the 5th week age of gestation, making that cutoff time scientifically speaking.

But again how would you define the existence of consciousness? The capacity for self-awareness is not something automatically observed; the organism in question needs to be able to communicate in some form to the rest of humanity that it has developed self-awareness. We can't exactly assume that the moment the CNS is formed the consciousness of the fetus has already started.
The pro-life movement isn't interested in scientific definitions to begin with, so even if we were to define an arbitrary point in time they would simply reject it out of hand.
__________________
synaesthetic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-20, 01:11   Link #20288
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Some people hold that once the central nervous starts to work, that's when consciousness begins.

If we were speaking of nerve and brain cell activity, that nervous system activity validates any degree of brain activity of conscious thought and appreciation, then the fetus' brain activity realistically starts by the 5th week age of gestation, making that cutoff time scientifically speaking.

But again how would you define the existence of consciousness? The capacity for self-awareness is not something automatically observed; the organism in question needs to be able to communicate in some form to the rest of humanity that it has developed self-awareness. We can't exactly assume that the moment the CNS is formed the consciousness of the fetus has already started.
Yeah, now you're considering the topic like I do... which means you're thinking differently than people who operate with unchallengeable axioms (articles of faith) irrespective of the information around them.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-20, 01:21   Link #20289
Kokukirin
Shadow of Effilisi
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I stopped the quote right there because using the term "unborn child" indicates a bias in the commentary, just as "Pro-life" is an inaccurate description of those that oppose abortion. You also have not established that a mass of fetal cells has a "right". Its just an assertion with no validation. It could just as easily be defined as an initial stage of male and female DNA combining, it certainly has no independent viability.
I used unborn child because it was the term Ledgem used. Though when I was writing my reply, I was thinking a a fetus that has past certain stage of development. A chump of cells with no neuro-activities cannot really qualify as a human, and therefore does not enjoy the same right that a human does. But at certain point, I think the right for the fetus/unborn child to live has to be put into serious consideration. Though I don't really have a opinion of where that line should be.
Kokukirin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-20, 01:25   Link #20290
Ithekro
Warning
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 37
From what I recall, there already is a line. Roe vs Wade is still in effect after all.
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai! Signature by ganbaru
Rena's Saimoe Take Home List 2014: Dairenji Suzuka.Misawa Maho.
Ithekro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-20, 01:49   Link #20291
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
The old "Godless Commies" business, I think.


It seems more that we just managed to outspend them (or more accurately, force them to try to outspend us to the point where their economic and socio-political system could no longer afford to be in a Cold War with the USA). Gorbichev tried to make the system hold on even at the cost of bowing out of the Cold War, but it the strain had been too much by then, and some of the satelite states and client states wanted out.
They paid their satellite states to the death of themselves.....did you see how much they put into "reconstructing" Vietnam?

Meanwhile, the American arm makers are laughing their way to the bank when the rest of SEA started buying arms in bulk just in case Vietnam starting fighting southward. If it wasn't China that went South on them first, we would have been in serious trouble.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-20, 05:35   Link #20292
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
Of diapers and drugs, Iran's trouble paying bills
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...82J05N20120320

"Cruel" gunman filmed French school carnage
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...82I07N20120320

Edit: Outrage prompts U.S. investigation of Florida teen killing
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...82I17520120320
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/internatio...0_accueil_POS4
So, because of this ''Stand your ground'' law, this guy chase and pursued a young unarmed black than walked under the rain and shoot him in the back in ''self-defence'' and getting away with it. Even without taking the racial factor into acount, that's so wrong I don't know by what to start.
__________________


Last edited by ganbaru; 2012-03-20 at 07:54.
ganbaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-20, 07:52   Link #20293
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
After a week of the airwaves in the US being buried in the Afghan soldier's life story who allegedly murdered 16 civilians in their homes, mostly women and children -- *one* US news organization decides to find out about the victims. :P Naturally, it isn't Fox or any of the corporate commercial news pieces.

http://www.npr.org/2012/03/20/148974...ooting-rampage

Spoiler for Uh, yeah, the 16 victims were people were in their homes spending the last few minutes of their lives being terrorized by the perpetrator.:
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-20, 11:12   Link #20294
GundamFan0083
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: classified
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Small note : a look at history will tell one that US "won" the Cold War by governance, trade and opportunities of human freedom.

Or rather, the USSR fell thanks to mismanagement, corruption and secularism
.
In other words, Marxian-socialism caused the fall of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Police Handcuff NBC Chicago Photojournalist

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local...143105086.html

This was just "brilliant" on the part of the cop:

"Your First Amendment rights can be terminated if you're creating a scene or whatever," the officer said.


Father's outrage as TSA subjects his wheelchair-bound three-year-old son to humiliating search... on his way to Disney

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-Chicago.html
__________________
GundamFan0083 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-20, 11:40   Link #20295
Jaden
Witch of Betrayal
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Age: 26
Dude arrested and prosecuted for malicious tweets.

Heh heh, twitterpolice in action...only in America. Wait... it's in the UK??

Spoiler for the tweets in question:


To be fair, the dude is a douche and got what he deserved, but I don't think this kinda thing is a matter for the police.
__________________

Last edited by Jaden; 2012-03-20 at 14:48.
Jaden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-20, 12:30   Link #20296
Xellos-_^
Married
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
Dude arrested and prosecuted for malicious tweets.

Heh heh, twitterpolice in action...only in America. Wait... it's in the UK??

Spoiler for the tweets in question:


To be fair, the dude is a douche and got what he deserved, but I don't think this kinda thing is a matter for the police.
first time a troll has been arrest and charge for being a troll.
__________________
Xellos-_^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-20, 12:47   Link #20297
Paranoid Android
Underweight Food Hoarder
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Kitch-Water and T.O., Canada
Age: 23
Send a message via MSN to Paranoid Android
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
first time a troll has been arrest and charge for being a troll.
Everybody's so control-over-speech crazy nowadays. Is being PRC the new fad?
Paranoid Android is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-20, 13:30   Link #20298
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
Police Handcuff NBC Chicago Photojournalist

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local...143105086.html

This was just "brilliant" on the part of the cop:

"Your First Amendment rights can be terminated if you're creating a scene or whatever," the officer said.
Someone needs to slap the cop repeatedly until all the stupid falls out. I hope I don't have to explain why...

Quote:
Father's outrage as TSA subjects his wheelchair-bound three-year-old son to humiliating search... on his way to Disney

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-Chicago.html
The interesting thing is that the TSA has recently claimed they no longer do this with small children and the very elderly... either there's a lot of fine print, someone is stupid, someone is lying ... or all the above.

TSA: bringing you pretend security theater since 2001, a production of the Homeland Insecurity Administration
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-20, 13:42   Link #20299
Ithekro
Warning
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 37
TSA did that to my grandfather. He was in a wheelchair at 88. But that was 2001 or maybe early 2002.
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai! Signature by ganbaru
Rena's Saimoe Take Home List 2014: Dairenji Suzuka.Misawa Maho.
Ithekro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-03-20, 14:27   Link #20300
andyjay729
YOU EEDIOT!!!
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I'm right behind you
Age: 32
Big earthquake in Mexico City.
andyjay729 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
current affairs, discussion, international, news

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.