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Old 2012-03-25, 11:58   Link #20461
Haak
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PM angry at Cash-for-Access boast:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17504798

First we had the Cash for Honors scandal a while back, and now we have a Cash for Access scandal...
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Old 2012-03-25, 12:08   Link #20462
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
PM angry at Cash-for-Access boast:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17504798

First we had the Cash for Honors scandal a while back, and now we have a Cash for Access scandal...
Heh, it's just a more out-in-the-open version of every other political donation process...
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Old 2012-03-25, 12:38   Link #20463
flying ^
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Thug justice FTMFW!



(a CNN exclusive)
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Old 2012-03-25, 12:54   Link #20464
flying ^
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so... what if Treyvawn had been white, and the shooter black?

What would happen if a black man armed with a handgun confronted "suspicious persons" in his neighborhood? What would happen if the "suspicious persons" were unarmed white teens, one of them was shot dead, and the shooter claimed self-defense?

Spoiler for By Michael Filozof:
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Old 2012-03-25, 12:55   Link #20465
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
Thug justice FTMFW!

(a CNN exclusive)
It'd be a lot more useful if you'd summarize what the link or video is about rather than just expecting everyone to waste time and bandwidth to find out.

As for the next post: though it is couched in questionable terms, the Filozof opinion piece does make many good points about the complexities in these sorts of cases. Nonetheless, it is much more the case that a young innocent black man can be the victim of lethal force from *someone* than a white man. Race-baiters may be trying to make this "theirs" but OTOH, Zimmerman in particular appears to have been completely out of control and the police failed to respond appropriately.
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Old 2012-03-25, 14:38   Link #20466
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
so... what if Treyvawn had been white, and the shooter black?

What would happen if a black man armed with a handgun confronted "suspicious persons" in his neighborhood? What would happen if the "suspicious persons" were unarmed white teens, one of them was shot dead, and the shooter claimed self-defense?

Spoiler for By Michael Filozof:
Yeah, I'm not reading that much bold text.

But heh, good question, what if? Wouldn't you scream bloody murder then? Shouldn't you? What do the races of the people involved really matter, aside from being a possible motive? A man stalked and shot an unarmed kid because he didn't like his looks. Are you going to argue that if the man had been black, and the kid white, it would have been right? Or considered right by any but a minority of lunatics?
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Old 2012-03-25, 15:11   Link #20467
solomon
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It is true the fact that Zimmerman isn't a white man does change the things somewhat. But frankly, this is tied heavily to the history and feelings that were influenced by said history of blacks. The fact that he WAS a young black man murdered for no good reason just can't be explained away.
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Old 2012-03-25, 15:22   Link #20468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
so... what if Treyvawn had been white, and the shooter black?

What would happen if a black man armed with a handgun confronted "suspicious persons" in his neighborhood? What would happen if the "suspicious persons" were unarmed white teens, one of them was shot dead, and the shooter claimed self-defense?

Spoiler for By Michael Filozof:
here is something your post didn't covered. Scott was arrested and charge with 1st degree manslaughter. NY police did not take it at face value that it was self defense. Zimmerman however is still free and not charge with any crime. The Sandford police did not even bring him in for questioning or had his blood check for alcohol or drugs.
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Old 2012-03-25, 17:12   Link #20469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
*words and a racist article of stupid right-wing retardery*
Um... Zimmerman wasn't white. Nobody involved was white except the lazy, ineffectual Florida police.

This isn't a race issue--it's an issue of police incompetence and a murderer doing his best to exploit said incompetence.
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Old 2012-03-25, 19:32   Link #20470
GundamFan0083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Um... Zimmerman wasn't white. Nobody involved was white except the lazy, ineffectual Florida police.

This isn't a race issue--it's an issue of police incompetence and a murderer doing his best to exploit said incompetence.
I agree with you Syn, and hopefully the FBI and/or the Florida attorney general's office will get to the facts of this case and prosecute those responsible (including the police if that proves to be the case).

Reading the PDF from the City Manager of Sanford does shed a little bit of light on this situation, though not much.
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Old 2012-03-25, 19:38   Link #20471
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
I agree with you Syn, and hopefully the FBI and/or the Florida attorney general's office will get to the facts of this case and prosecute those responsible (including the police if that proves to be the case).

Reading the PDF from the City Manager of Sanford does shed a little bit of light on this situation, though not much.
Hopefully so, but I'm not holding my breath until I see the media start directing more attention to the failure of the police and less attention to the stand-your-ground law (which doesn't even apply in this case).
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Old 2012-03-25, 20:07   Link #20472
ganbaru
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Actualy, I think than the media should direct their attention on both, the law and the police work; with a law than allow so much and cops than can cut cornet to avoid more work ( at best, it could be worse), trying to fix only one part of the problem won't be enough. Fix only the cops and you still have a law than will end up labeling real homicide as ''self defence'', fix only the law and the cops might lets pass a couple more case.
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Old 2012-03-25, 20:28   Link #20473
Urzu 7
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More on Trayvon Martin case. This time, some crap from Newt Gingrich.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1377977.html


Quote:
On Friday, Obama broke his silence on the shooting of the unarmed African-American teenager in Florida, a case that has launched a national movement.

"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon," Obama said, underscoring how the issue affected him on a personal level. "I think [Trayvon's parents] are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, and we are going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened."

Gingrich took exception with Obama's comments during a radio interview later on Friday, saying they were "disgraceful."

"It's not a question of who that young man looked like," he said. "Any young American of any ethnic background should be safe, period. We should all be horrified, no matter what the ethnic background. Is the president suggesting that, if it had been a white who'd been shot, that would be OK, because it wouldn't look like him? That's just nonsense."
Yeah, because that is EXACTLY what Obama was saying. How many racist white dudes who are anti-Obama do you think think the same thing from what Obama said? *facepalm*

The only nonsense going on is Zimmerman supporters who'd like to think that there is no racism involved with this case, whether it be from Zimmerman, the Sanford PD, or both (and from what we can tell, it is probably both).
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Old 2012-03-25, 20:40   Link #20474
andyjay729
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On a happier note...James Cameron just made only the second voyage in history to travel to the Mariana Trench, after more than 50 years.

Yeah, I guess you could say he literally outdid "Titanic" there; that's about three times further down than the ship. (And this is just days after the latest National Geographic came out with a 100-year article on the Titanic sinking, including details about Cameron's plans to visit the trench.) Talk about the world's eccentric rich uncle.
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Old 2012-03-25, 20:44   Link #20475
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyjay729 View Post
On a happier note...James Cameron just made only the second voyage in history to travel to the Mariana Trench, after more than 50 years.

Yeah, I guess you could say he literally outdid "Titanic" there; that's about three times further down than the ship. (And this is just days after the latest National Geographic came out with a 100-year article on the Titanic sinking, including details about Cameron's plans to visit the trench.) Talk about the world's eccentric rich uncle.
More power to him. Were I a rich person, I'd be spending my money investigating scientific things like that as well.
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Old 2012-03-25, 20:47   Link #20476
Ascaloth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
More power to him. Were I a rich person, I'd be spending my money investigating scientific things like that as well.
You're assuming he's actually doing any scientific investigating, instead of trawling for inspiration for his next big box office blockbuster. Bet you in a year or so, he'll come out with one set in the Trench.

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Old 2012-03-25, 20:55   Link #20477
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
You're assuming he's actually doing any scientific investigating, instead of trawling for inspiration for his next big box office blockbuster. Bet you in a year or so, he'll come out with one set in the Trench.

Hey, that'd be pretty cool too, especially if they can get some of that Avatar 3D going.
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Old 2012-03-25, 20:56   Link #20478
Ithekro
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Research for "The Abyss 2"?
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Old 2012-03-25, 22:11   Link #20479
Urzu 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
so... what if Treyvawn had been white, and the shooter black?

What would happen if a black man armed with a handgun confronted "suspicious persons" in his neighborhood? What would happen if the "suspicious persons" were unarmed white teens, one of them was shot dead, and the shooter claimed self-defense?

Spoiler for By Michael Filozof:
I do not like this article, I do not like that author, and I checked out some articles from that site, and I do not care for that site. When I read that article, I saw an angry republican man who hates the left, and I see a man who may very well be a racist (and he is trying to play off anti-racist sentiments in his article).

I see the point he is trying to make in that article, but he didn't do it well, and he could have done it better. The biggest problem is he leaves the speculation he applies to the Trayvon Martin case, and starts talking about about crime statistics with African Americans, and the way it read to me was that he was trying to amount the typical black to savages. He really went for a portrayal of "Just look at how many black people in America are criminals and thugs!".

Going back to how the author of the article tries to compare this NY case to the Martin case, it just isn't a good comparison due to some factors. In the NY case, the suspect was apparently taking part in burglary. Trayvon Martin was walking around a neighborhood with some snack food. He was not doing any criminal activity. The suspect in the NY case charged the man with the gun. Trayvon, while wrestling with a man with a gun, was screaming for help and pleading "No, no!" and then was shot in the chest. The man who fired a shot in the NY case was arrested and tried. Zimmerman was not arrested, they didn't do a background check on him, they took his word when he said he has a clean record, they never tested him for drugs or alcohol, and even after outrage and national attention, they still haven't charged Zimmerman or brought him in for questioning, even. It doesn't help that when they let him off the hook the day this crime happened, they just assumed he was white and put him down as "white" in the paperwork. A big reason why the Trayvon Martin case took off with widespread media attention is because not only did Zimmerman screw up badly and raise questions about racism ("fucking coon", anyone?), but the Sanford Police have screwed up so badly and also raise questions about racism being involved in this case.

There are good reasons for Americans to be mad about the Trayvon Martin case, and not just black Americans. And it has upset many black Americans. Racism against blacks still runs rampant in this country. It has done very much to oppress blacks in this country and position them into disadvantages (socially, economically, politically, and more). Hate crimes against blacks happen pretty often. Police and police departments often mistreat black suspects while not treating white suspects, generally speaking, as bad or as unfairly. The Trayvon Martin case may be a hate crime and the police didn't do the job they should have and it may be in large part due to racism. The investigation is on-going, but an unarmed 17 year old who pleaded for his life was shot and killed and the shooter, so far, has gotten away with this scott-free. This has lead to a cry for justice. It doesn't help that right now it looks like racism is a factor in this case.

And that is the thing, this Trayvon Martin case may very well exemplify, and exemplify clearly, something that is all too common in American society. There has been many times where black suspects have been treated differently (in a negative way) from the typical white suspect. Some of them make the news. We've all heard of cases such as these cases. They are no secret. It is no surprise that many black people are mad from this case and want justice over this case. And this brings up another thing I don't like about that article. The author writes this:

Quote:
The truth of the matter is that "civil rights" cases are often little more than reverse lynch mobs. In the Old South of the past, white mobs would drag black suspects out of jail and lynch them in the streets if they felt the wheels of justice were turning too slowly. Today, black mobs, often led by the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, lead street protests or riots, and the Federal government comes after white suspects with the "rope" of "civil rights" charges.
So, we have some real social injustice in America as I pointed out in my last paragraph, and we are going to call the black Americans who have protests about different instances of social injustice "black mobs"? The author has some nerve. And he is going to compare this protesters (I'm sorry, I mean "black mobs") to murderous, blood thirsty lynch mobs? This guy has some nerve. Sure, some of the protests could be rowdy, maybe some of the protestors can get out of hand sometimes, but to equate ALL of those protestors with the likes of goons from lynch mobs? Such rubbish.

I think I have written enough. I just have cynicism with that author and many people who try to argue like him. I can see where he is coming from with some of his points, but like I said, he could have shared his views differently, he could have made his case differently, and he made it a point to emphasize statistics about black criminals in the U.S. That website, I checked out some of it; not for me. Right-wing website. I'm sure some things written on that site make some valid points, but I'm sure there is much written there I don't agree with.

Edit: Bringing up this part of the article again.

Quote:
In the Old South of the past, white mobs would drag black suspects out of jail and lynch them in the streets if they felt the wheels of justice were turning too slowly.
Hey author, are you kidding us? A great number of those lynch mobs had nothing to do with justice. Often times they were brutal killings for petty crimes or even crimes that weren't committed (we can be sure there were times a white person accused an innocent black person of a crime, white southerners accepted the accusation without question, and performed a lynching ASAP). Just another detail in the article that suggest an author who is racist (clearly he is biased against blacks).
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Last edited by Urzu 7; 2012-03-25 at 22:43.
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Old 2012-03-25, 22:17   Link #20480
SaintessHeart
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Oh look, he went into hiding :

Friends fear for safety of man who shot Florida teen

Quote:
(Reuters) - Friends and supporters spoke out on Sunday on behalf of the neighborhood watch volunteer who shot and killed an unarmed teenager in Florida, saying he fears for his safety after receiving death threats.

George Zimmerman, who has claimed he shot Trayvon Martin on February 26 in self-defense, is staying at an undisclosed location after widely circulated death threats and word of a $10,000 bounty to find him, said legal adviser Craig Sonner, who said he would represent Zimmerman if charges are filed.

Fury over the shooting in the gated community of Sanford, Florida, of the 17-year-old boy, who was carrying an iced tea and a bag of Skittles candy, and the lack of an arrest or charges prompted demonstrations nationwide calling for authorities to take action.

On Sunday, supporters of Martin staged events at churches, where congregants were encouraged to wear hoodies, or hooded sweatshirts, like the one he was wearing when he was killed.

At Middle Collegiate Church in New York City, the minister and members of the congregation wore hoodies, pulling their hoods over their heads during prayers at a crowded service that made repeated reference to Martin's killing as a symptom of the discrimination felt by young black Americans.

Jacqui Lewis, the church's senior minister, gave a sermon in which she said people were "fed up with centuries of race-related hatred and fear in this country."

"We will not rest until this disease called racism is stamped out," she said, calling for Americans to mix more frequently with people from different backgrounds, ethnicities and cultures.

She asked congregants to mail packets of Skittles candy to the Sanford Police Department and post pictures of themselves on the Internet wearing their hoodies and holding signs saying: "I am not dangerous. Racism is."

Martin was shot dead after Zimmerman, 28, a white Hispanic neighborhood watch captain, believed the young man walking through the gated community looked suspicious. Zimmerman followed him and an altercation ensued.

Friends of Zimmerman, who has not spoken to the media, said he was extremely upset about the shooting.

"I mean, he took a man's life and he has no idea what to do about it. He's extremely remorseful about it," said his friend Joe Oliver.

"What makes all these people who are threatening George any better than the person they think he is?" he added. "You've got all these people wanting to lynch the man, and they don't know the whole story.

"There are huge gaps that are being filled in and interpreted without evidence," he said.

A candlelight vigil was planned for Sunday evening in Sanford, where civil rights activist Jesse Jackson was slated to appear. A rally of Martin supporters was also planned in Seattle.

While state and federal investigations are under way, the shooting has put a focus on so-called "Stand your Ground" laws, adopted first in Florida in 2005 and in at least 16 other states since.

Opponents call them "Shoot First" laws that put the burden on prosecutors to prove a shooting was not self-defense.

Senator Charles Schumer, a New York Democrat, called on Sunday for a Justice Department investigation into "Stand your Ground" laws to determine if they increase violence and prevent prosecutions of crimes.

"They're all new. They've been passed very, very quickly and I think the states who passed them, if they find out the real facts, they may decide to repeal them," Schumer said on CBS's "Face the Nation."

"I have a lot of faith in our police and in our sheriffs and I don't like a move to vigilantism," Schumer said.

The incident has become part of the presidential campaign as well. Republican Rick Santorum, also on "Face the Nation," called it "a heinous act."

"We need to focus on being there to be supportive and for the family that's going through this tragedy," he said.

President Barack Obama talked about the case on Friday, saying it made him "think about my own kids."

"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon," Obama said of Martin, who was African-American.

Sonner said Zimmerman fears he is in danger. He cited a document circulating that has Zimmerman's photo with the words "Wanted Dead or Alive."

"I think to not take that seriously would be a mistake," he said.

Florida Governor Rick Scott on CNN's "State of the Union" on Sunday promised a thorough investigation and said he had faith in the state attorney leading it.

Scott also said he was not aware of any requests for protection from Zimmerman, but would provide it if asked.

"If he feels unsafe, we'll make sure nothing happens to him," Scott said.

Sonner has said Zimmerman suffered a broken nose, a gash to his head and had grass stains on his shirt after the confrontation with Martin. Oliver said details about the altercation remain unclear, but he said Zimmerman told him he was not the aggressor.

The New Black Panther Party announced on Saturday it was offering a $10,000 bounty for Zimmerman.

"We will reward that individual or group of people who take George Zimmerman into custody and we will deliver him to the authorities. They would be better off holding him than letting him out on the street because there is an angry mindset among black people," said Mikhail Muhammad of the New Black Panther Party, a black political organization that takes its name from the radical movement of the 1960s.
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