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Old 2012-06-11, 07:55   Link #21881
Vexx
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Oooops... just read Osaka and brain jumped to the "usual suspect"
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Old 2012-06-11, 09:12   Link #21882
wontaek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Incorrect. It's a mostly conservative initiative that has mass support across the spectrum which comes from the Neo-Confucianist values ingrained into Korean society during the 512 years of the Joseon dynasty. Furthermore, people like myself (Shintoist) agree with upping the age to 18.

If we accept your argument, then most of policy of the ruling party is because they are conservative, not because they are pro-Christian. They just won the General election for the control of legislative branch, which will further strengthen their hold in judicial branch ( http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news...16_112523.html ) . On top of this, the ruling party may win the Presidential election later this year. What motive will ruling party have for changing their way? Wouldn't they become emboldened to push for even stronger conservative agenda, and give less heed to those who want compromise or wish for moderate agenda? Wouldn't the ruling party further engage in ideological warfare to purge Korean society of dissenting voices? Wouldn't they further suppress voice of academicians who presents cases against the claims of ruling party? If you are fan of the Korean ruling party, this is a good time, but if you are not, then what hope does those not favored by Saenuri Party have? For those who desires political reforms in Korea to protect the poor, reduce governmental corruptions, and end the distortion of truth by state-run media( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_o...ectronic_Media ), there is much to fear that things will get worse.
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Old 2012-06-11, 09:37   Link #21883
Endless Soul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Governor of Osaka is getting some heat, he publically stated "Murderer. If you want to die so badly, why not go kill yourself. Don't involve others." to the killer's intenions.
A lot of people are flaming him for being inappropriate and insensitive, but to hell with em.

I agree with the man.
I agree as well.

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Old 2012-06-11, 09:55   Link #21884
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Oh yeah? I don't agree, murderers may have pathological issues, childhood problems, they aren't simply following their pulsions to kill, there is generally reasons for them to do so, to not give them a trial or understanding those reasons is to run away from a society's problem and why they became what they are now.

Let's say a girl is abused by her teacher and ends up killing him for revenge, hate, or whatever, she is a murderer, would you approve that man's sentence? Probably not, then why? BEcause it's a girl? Because she was abused? But most murderers in their life suffered from something, the scale changing from one's to another.

But he seems to talking about one murderer, there's a psychopath serial killer in Osaka or what?
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Old 2012-06-11, 10:05   Link #21885
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wontaek View Post
-Snip-
Here's the inconvenient truth: Unlike most countries, the "liberals" of Korea are the greater of two evils. The reason why Saenuri had been able to rebound from their loss in support was how the "liberals" conducted themselves, being far more oppressive and ideological than the Saenuri. Frankly, Korea is in a pretty strange situation where the conservatives in power would mean a freer society than if the "liberals" came to power.
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Old 2012-06-11, 10:47   Link #21886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakoo View Post
But he seems to talking about one murderer, there's a psychopath serial killer in Osaka or what?
You should read the context before ranting. It's one guy who was in jail before for murder (or attempted murder, I forget which), and was released shortly before this incident. He wanted to commit suicide, but was too chicken to do so. So, he got a knife and randomly stabbed two people to death so that he'd be executed.
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Old 2012-06-11, 11:42   Link #21887
Zakoo
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There was no link for me to know the context, I can't guess what's going on in the whole world.

Nonetheless doesn't change a thing, it still suits my first part, I can sympathize with the family of the two dead people, but the fact that man tried to commit suicid is as well a problem, and instead of condamning him, there should be proper work why that man dived in so much in despair.
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Old 2012-06-11, 13:08   Link #21888
Ridwan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Here's the inconvenient truth: Unlike most countries, the "liberals" of Korea are the greater of two evils. The reason why Saenuri had been able to rebound from their loss in support was how the "liberals" conducted themselves, being far more oppressive and ideological than the Saenuri. Frankly, Korea is in a pretty strange situation where the conservatives in power would mean a freer society than if the "liberals" came to power.
"Kemalists", I presume ?

So this Saenuri party is pretty much Korean version of AKP that is trying to overture the top-down imposed modernization upon the society whether they like it or not by the previous regime ?

Now I know why I get this strange attraction towards the country....

Still, the American evangelical component in its make up ought to make one nervous.
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Old 2012-06-11, 13:51   Link #21889
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegir View Post
"Kemalists", I presume ?

So this Saenuri party is pretty much Korean version of AKP that is trying to overture the top-down imposed modernization upon the society whether they like it or not by the previous regime ?

Now I know why I get this strange attraction towards the country....

Still, the American evangelical component in its make up ought to make one nervous.
Eh, more like a mix-up of the Conservatives of the UK and Canada and a dash of the US Republicans on the fringes.
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Old 2012-06-11, 14:18   Link #21890
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakoo View Post
There was no link for me to know the context, I can't guess what's going on in the whole world.
Speaking of trying to understand people, maybe you should have read a few posts upward... Lead by example, you know? Kinda hard to take you seriously if you don't.

Quote:
Nonetheless doesn't change a thing, it still suits my first part, I can sympathize with the family of the two dead people, but the fact that man tried to commit suicid is as well a problem, and instead of condamning him, there should be proper work why that man dived in so much in despair.
And it doesn't change the fact that it would have been far, far better for him to kill himself on his own rather than murder two random strangers. Still a tragedy, if you want to insist on calling it that, but a much smaller one.
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Old 2012-06-11, 14:29   Link #21891
Zakoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Speaking of trying to understand people, maybe you should have read a few posts upward... Lead by example, you know? Kinda hard to take you seriously if you don't.


And it doesn't change the fact that it would have been far, far better for him to kill himself on his own rather than murder two random strangers. Still a tragedy, if you want to insist on calling it that, but a much smaller one.
No relationship sir, I don't play at "see the last post" but "see the last page", I simply saw the quote, whether you take me seriously or not is the slightest of my problem, you are actually free of agreeing with what the japenese man said or not, and it's impossible to change one's opinion on this, I simply voiced mine.

Yes the tragedy would have been smaller if that man killed himself, but now maybe -at least- some people will try to understand why that man tried to suicid himself yet couldn't, and maybe it will change something for japense society, this one especially isn't easy. Otherwise it would have simply been " [Not breaking news]A former prisonnier suicid himself after being released". And who cares about that?

Edit: Man, come on are you kidding, stop playing semantic with me, we passed this, my post still hold all its value without knowing all the context, and there wasn't even the need to know the whole context, I do not agree with his sentence, I showed why, that's all. What you are doing is ridiculous -seeking the little mouse where it isn't-.

Last edited by Zakoo; 2012-06-11 at 15:30.
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Old 2012-06-11, 14:35   Link #21892
Anh_Minh
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Your opinion on a conversation you couldn't be arsed to read, let alone understand, thus taking that quote you commented on out of context. When your oh so valuable opinion is that we should make an effort to understand people and the context of their actions (or does that apply only to murderers?). I just found the contradiction amusing.
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Old 2012-06-11, 19:52   Link #21893
wontaek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Here's the inconvenient truth: Unlike most countries, the "liberals" of Korea are the greater of two evils. The reason why Saenuri had been able to rebound from their loss in support was how the "liberals" conducted themselves, being far more oppressive and ideological than the Saenuri. Frankly, Korea is in a pretty strange situation where the conservatives in power would mean a freer society than if the "liberals" came to power.
Interesting take. In another post, you mentioned similarity between Saenuri and what I guess to be Tea Party in USA, yet you also say "Frankly, Korea is in a pretty strange situation where the conservatives in power would mean a freer society than if the "liberals" came to power." I believe the IDEAL situation in Korea is when at least one branch of government is held by different party from another branch, so the two evil can cancel each other out.

I do agree that the opposition party has serious problem, starting with UNDEMOCRATIC way they run the party ( I know some inside stories that isn't in the news ). Having said that, Korea seriously lacks serious parties that upholds democratic ideals of 'compromising with those that disagree with you' while also upholding ideals of either Social Liberalism ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism ) or Progressivism ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism ) , as the most laws that pushed Korea towards being more Conservative Neoliberalism ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism ) was proposed by the current opposition party when they were the ruling party.
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Last edited by wontaek; 2012-06-11 at 20:13.
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Old 2012-06-11, 20:53   Link #21894
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wontaek View Post
Interesting take. In another post, you mentioned similarity between Saenuri and what I guess to be Tea Party in USA,
Eh? When did I say that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wontaek View Post
as the most laws that pushed Korea towards being more Conservative Neoliberalism ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism ) was proposed by the current opposition party when they were the ruling party.
I don't know what to really say about it, given that Roh was a pretty strange president. He was too polarizing, too confrontational, and too much of a paradox.
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Old 2012-06-11, 22:31   Link #21895
wontaek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Eh, more like a mix-up of the Conservatives of the UK and Canada and a dash of the US Republicans on the fringes.
Ah! I guess you meant Saenuri fringe, not Republican fringe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Eh? When did I say that?


I don't know what to really say about it, given that Roh was a pretty strange president. He was too polarizing, too confrontational, and too much of a paradox.
I disagree about being confrontational, since he did little to change the status quo of Korea he inherited, but do agree about being a paradox. He was supported by those who claimed to like Social Liberalism, but his policies were very neo-liberalist

http://books.google.com/books?id=tx-...ralism&f=false

http://www.japanfocus.org/-Man_Gil_-Kang/2093

http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/engli...on/299316.html

http://sawyerseminar.web.unc.edu/fil...-Quarterly.pdf

http://www.isj.org.uk/index.php4?id=480=120

Above are articles describing neoliberal policies of President Kim, Dae-jung and Roh, Moo-hyun .
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Old 2012-06-11, 22:44   Link #21896
Endless Soul
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In the most awesome news EVER, the Los Angeles KINGS won the Stanley Cup for the first time in their 45 year history.

I witnessed history tonight

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Old 2012-06-11, 23:12   Link #21897
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Soul View Post
In the most awesome news EVER, the Los Angeles KINGS won the Stanley Cup for the first time in their 45 year history.

I witnessed history tonight

Endless "Go Kings, GO!" Soul
The Canadians are in shock....
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Old 2012-06-11, 23:53   Link #21898
Endless Soul
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Hell I think just about everyone was in shock when the last seat Kings defeated the 1st seat Canucks.

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Old 2012-06-12, 01:32   Link #21899
Mr Hat and Clogs
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/awaits news of riots in Canada
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Old 2012-06-12, 02:05   Link #21900
0utf0xZer0
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Oh sure, salt the wounds. Just remember we came back and beat the Hawks last year after getting eliminated by them the two years prior.

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Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs View Post
/awaits news of riots in Canada
Unlikely. Vancouver isn't going to host giant outdoor parties with tens of thousands of Canucks fans attending unless Vancouver is in the playoffs. And the game seven party last year also attracted the "goon" crowd looking to recreate the (smaller but still significant) 1994 game seven riot which occurred after the Canucks lost to the Rangers in New York.

Not that Vancouver doesn't have it's share of bad fan behaviour... my mom had a co-worker from Chicago who once got Timbits (Canada's national mini donut) thrown at her when she wore a Blackhawks jersey in public.
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