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Old 2012-07-01, 00:13   Link #22301
Ascaloth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
Besides, the Nazis were humanists not theists.
[phoenixwright] Objection! [/phoenixwright]

Please kindly desist from spreading your lies, thanks.
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Old 2012-07-01, 00:49   Link #22302
GundamFan0083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
[phoenixwright] Objection! [/phoenixwright]

Please kindly desist from spreading your lies, thanks.
Ah yes the propaganda of the New-Atheists.
Kindly take your own advice and read the article you linked to before making an ass out of yourself.

From the article:
While he was disdainful of religion in his private life, he did make substantial efforts to accommodate Christian belief as a way of reconciling the German establishment to Nazism. Indeed, he referred to himself publicly as a Christian. On a personal level he didn't really care about theology - he was mainly interested in fulfilling his ordained role in history as Führer.

Hitler was a Humanist, he believed in the creation of a superman and thus a super race of humans that would become as gods.
You have heard of Eugenics right?

Also Ascaloth, instead of posting obvious agenda driven gibberish like the [ir]-rationalwiki, it would do you better to try reading a critical analysis of what Hitler and the Nazis really felt, their beliefs, and how they used propaganda to control the masses.
This is why the "religion" of the Nazis is a "pot-luck" of various Germanic religious systems and beliefs. The purpose of which was to convince the German people that they were a super race whose bloodline gave them the right to rule the world and wipe out all inferior races.
In other words, they used their political pseudo-religion to brainwash millions of people into following them.
But that doesn't mean they actually believed in any kind of god or creator.
The evidence shows that they didn't.

Actual quotes of Hitler from the book "Hitler's Table Talk":

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)


The New Atheists must rely on Hitler's propaganda piece Mein Kampf to try and re-write who Hitler was to fit their totally illiterate view of history.

The only god that Hitler recognized was himself.
Also from "Table Talk"

14th October, 1941, midday:

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)


Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)


14th December, 1941, midday:

Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)


Need I go on?

The Nazis were anything but theists and certainly not Christian by any measure.
Their "religion" was the worship of the state as the church and the head of state as god.
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Old 2012-07-01, 01:32   Link #22303
Ascaloth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
Ah yes the propaganda of the New-Atheists.
Kindly take your own advice and read the article you linked to before making an ass out of yourself.
Nice attempt at poisoning the well there, but you really should realise by now that you can't really get away with rhetorical tricks around here.

Quote:
From the article:
While he was disdainful of religion in his private life, he did make substantial efforts to accommodate Christian belief as a way of reconciling the German establishment to Nazism. Indeed, he referred to himself publicly as a Christian. On a personal level he didn't really care about theology - he was mainly interested in fulfilling his ordained role in history as Führer.

Hitler was a Humanist, he believed in the creation of a superman and thus a super race of humans that would become as gods.
You have heard of Eugenics right?

Fallacy of Composition
. Your claim was that Nazis are humanists; therefore, whatever Hitler's stance on theism is not only irrelevant, you have also made the mistake of assuming what is true of the part (Hitler) must be true of the whole (Nazis).

Quote:
Spoiler for tl;dr:
Oh ho, I knew you were going to pull that one out again. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you were not informed that the English edition of Hitler's Table Talk was riddled with fabrications from Hitler's anti-Catholic aide Martin Bormann and further embellished by Francois Genoud, and that these anti-Christian quotes were not actually found in the original German text, as is demonstrated in Picker's more authoritative edition.

I will further extend that benefit of the doubt, and assume you were not aware that the Third Reich did, indeed, come up with its own brand of Christianity, which puts the lie to your assertion that the Nazis were 'certainly not Christian by any measure'.

In any case, nice try at attempting to back up your stand, but I must regretfully inform you that your source was unreliable, and thus the entire foundation of your argument stands on shaky ground. Your assertion that Nazis were not theists were simply a case of the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy, and is in fact the assertion that does not stand up in the face of the evidence.

You're welcome.

EDIT: Advised, so...

Disclaimer: This post is not intended to be offensive, neither is it for the faint-hearted who deem bird-bolts as cannon bullets. If any mod finds this offensive, please PM me and I'll gladly remove it.

Last edited by Ascaloth; 2012-07-01 at 06:59.
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Old 2012-07-01, 01:48   Link #22304
GundamFan0083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
*LOL*
Aw, can't handle the facts so you have to try and attack the source.
Poor baby.
You made an ass out of yourself and you know it.
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Old 2012-07-01, 02:12   Link #22305
MrTerrorist
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Don't mention the war

Is it time to stop using Hitler in arguments?
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Old 2012-07-01, 04:00   Link #22306
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
Aw, can't handle the facts so you have to try and attack the source.
Poor baby.
You made an ass out of yourself and you know it.
Don't be stupid. If your input is garbage, your output will be garbage. You can make the world's best argument you want but if the information it's based on is, well, wrong... then your argument is therefore wrong.
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Old 2012-07-01, 04:37   Link #22307
ganbaru
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Basque economy has lessons for Spain
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...85R0K120120628
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Old 2012-07-01, 04:48   Link #22308
Dhomochevsky
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Oh please... GundamFan0083 those 'theories' are hilarious at best.

Hitler was a mystic. There were a great number of weird mystical beliefs running through the leading rows of the Nazi party. That those beliefs were not tied to an established religion, but instead a wild mixture of all kinds of superstitious beliefs does not make them atheists in the slightest way. Quite the opposite actually.

To try and tie them to atheism, just because they opposed christianity too is like saying muslims are atheists, because they aren't christians either.

Such a giant pile of bullshit in textform... really...

Oh, apparently they were also big conspiracy theory enthusiasts. Mainly by connecting anything bad to some kind of jew conspiracy. I seem to know someone else here who loves conspiracy theories and believes all kind of random nonsense.. hmmmm
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Old 2012-07-01, 06:14   Link #22309
SaintessHeart
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Guys, I would certainly appreciate some civility in here. Please take all those lousy arguments about religion and whatnot erstwise garbage to PM and spare us the urge to rebuke en-masse, with negreps and reports thrown around for no apparent reason.

Otherwise, quit negrepping someone's post you don't like. Some of the mods are already clamping down on freedom of speech because a minority can't stand it. If you want to negrep someone's post you don't agree with but you can't find an argument against , get out of this thread, or better, entirely out of this forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky View Post
Oh please... GundamFan0083 those 'theories' are hilarious at best.

Hitler was a mystic. There were a great number of weird mystical beliefs running through the leading rows of the Nazi party. That those beliefs were not tied to an established religion, but instead a wild mixture of all kinds of superstitious beliefs does not make them atheists in the slightest way. Quite the opposite actually.

To try and tie them to atheism, just because they opposed christianity too is like saying muslims are atheists, because they aren't christians either.

Such a giant pile of bullshit in textform... really...

Oh, apparently they were also big conspiracy theory enthusiasts. Mainly by connecting anything bad to some kind of jew conspiracy. I seem to know someone else here who loves conspiracy theories and believes all kind of random nonsense.. hmmmm
Vexx has gone quiet. Is he planning on mindwiping us while we sleep tonight?
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Old 2012-07-01, 09:44   Link #22310
GundamFan0083
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I can see that the fanaticism of the Nazis is alive and well in the New-atheist movement judging by how some of you get so defensive about Hitler's beliefs (or more accurately lack there of).

I had planned on addressing both Syn and Dhomochevsky, but SaintessHeart changed my mind.
If you want to believe a lie, that's your business.
This is the News Stories thread, so I won't derail it any further.

Darrell Issa Puts Details of Secret Wiretap Applications in Congressional Record

http://www.rollcall.com/news/darrell...-215828-1.html

Issa reveals wiretap docs from DOJ mole
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/23...-from-doj-mole
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Old 2012-07-01, 12:58   Link #22311
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Guys, I would certainly appreciate some civility in here. Please take all those lousy arguments about religion and whatnot erstwise garbage to PM and spare us the urge to rebuke en-masse, with negreps and reports thrown around for no apparent reason.

...


Vexx has gone quiet. Is he planning on mindwiping us while we sleep tonight?
I'm not in this because it is a god damned stupid derail that is irrelevant. Assertion of whether Hitler is or is not a Christian has no bearing on current events. He also liked dogs and children... whee.

Back to the news.... convicted felon Congressional Rep Issa might need to be convicted of something else with the fire he's setting to himself.
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Old 2012-07-01, 13:11   Link #22312
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
He also liked dogs and children... whee.
He was a vegetarian and was against tobaco, just saying
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Old 2012-07-01, 13:16   Link #22313
Ithekro
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Meglomania just ruins people....
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Old 2012-07-01, 13:23   Link #22314
mangamuscle
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Megalos just ruins people....
You just forget they are not people, they are not even human, they are ... politicians
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Old 2012-07-01, 14:39   Link #22315
GundamFan0083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I'm not in this because it is a god damned stupid derail that is irrelevant. Assertion of whether Hitler is or is not a Christian has no bearing on current events. He also liked dogs and children... whee.

Back to the news.... convicted felon Congressional Rep Issa might need to be convicted of something else with the fire he's setting to himself.
Yes I know, I should just ignore Ascaloth.

Eastern US storms kill 13, cut power to millions
http://news.yahoo.com/eastern-us-sto...204808305.html

Now this had to scare the crap of this poor guy!

Online threat — but SWAT team raids wrong house
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48018051.../#.T-8YzpKVCy9
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Old 2012-07-02, 19:39   Link #22316
GundamFan0083
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This could be rather important.

Heatwave threatens US grain harvest
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7bc2f826-c...#axzz1zW10qW5U
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Old 2012-07-03, 00:31   Link #22317
MrTerrorist
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CNN presenter Anderson Cooper announces he is gay

So all those rumors have been confirmed. I admired and respect Mr Cooper since he's one of CNN's best reporters. The fact that he's gay won't change my opinion of him, what matters is that he continues reporting ground breaking issues that most mainstream reporters tend to ignore or forget.
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Old 2012-07-03, 01:00   Link #22318
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
CNN presenter Anderson Cooper announces he is gay

So all those rumors have been confirmed. I admired and respect Mr Cooper since he's one of CNN's best reporters. The fact that he's gay won't change my opinion of him, what matters is that he continues reporting ground breaking issues that most mainstream reporters tend to ignore or forget.
This just in; the sky is blue.
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Old 2012-07-03, 01:46   Link #22319
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
CNN presenter Anderson Cooper announces he is gay

So all those rumors have been confirmed. I admired and respect Mr Cooper since he's one of CNN's best reporters. The fact that he's gay won't change my opinion of him, what matters is that he continues reporting ground breaking issues that most mainstream reporters tend to ignore or forget.


Please don't pair him with another male news anchor...
Please don't pair him with another male news anchor...
Please don't pair him with another male news anchor...
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-07-03, 01:57   Link #22320
sa547
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Something for all of us to have a heads-up:
-----------------

Quote:
http://www.starchild.co.jp/owabi.html
An advisory was issued just today by Starchild due to that some websites (and domain names) associated with the King Records subsidiary have been compromised by implanted malware.

The following (verified with a domain name check) includes:
「蒼穹のファフナー」 http://fafner.jp/
「K」 http://k-project.jpn.com/
「落語物語」 http://rakugomonogatari.jp/
「ヴィーナスとジーザス」 http://venusandjesus.jp/

All sites have been found to be carrying malware called "Security Shield".
http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/blog-e...0486.html#more
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