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Old 2013-04-20, 06:24   Link #27781
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
I do get your humour. I was just being the rational without enough smartphone battery to put smilies.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2013-04-20, 06:30   Link #27782
Ridwan
Got A Bad Desire
 
 
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Location: قلوب المؤمنين
Your reasoning is weak.
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Old 2013-04-20, 08:28   Link #27783
Bri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
The Boston Bombers.

I don't see Muslims. I see white kids. So, surprise, surprise. White people can be terrorists too. So, in this case, lay off the Muslims for once.
Last time I checked, religion wasn't a physical trait . Followers of the Abrahamic religions can be found among many different ethnicities .

Last edited by Bri; 2013-04-20 at 09:13. Reason: spelling error
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Old 2013-04-20, 08:37   Link #27784
SaintessHeart
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Age: 25
@ Ridwan : Quit bitching and accept it.

Well it seems that they went down the wrong path of Islam and violated its image even more. It is kind of sad how thesw philosophies are easily twisted by megalomanical butthurt anchioves and result in the death of innocent people.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2013-04-20, 08:42   Link #27785
Ridwan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bri View Post
Lat time I checked, religion wasn't a physical trait . Followers of the Abrahamic religions can be found among many different ethnicities .
Muslims can't be white.

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Old 2013-04-20, 08:49   Link #27786
Kirarakim
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People seem to be confusing Muslim and Arab on here.
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Old 2013-04-20, 09:36   Link #27787
Vexx
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Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
People seem to be confusing Muslim and Arab on here.
ya think? I'm going to pull out a geography test if people aren't careful
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Old 2013-04-20, 09:42   Link #27788
Terrestrial Dream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
People seem to be confusing Muslim and Arab on here.
It is good thing that football has taught me that calling Iranian arab is not a smart thing
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Old 2013-04-20, 10:54   Link #27789
ChainLegacy
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I fully understand and agree that the vast majority of adherents to Islam are peaceful, normal people who just want to live their lives without any conflict. I also am a firm believer in the fact that many of the Islamic nations have socioeconomic problems and a bone to pick with Western civilization for imperialism and interference in their affairs. I also accept and acknowledge every civilization has its extremists who are violent and can give their peers a bad name.

With all of that in mind, I still wonder if it's a bit easier to "make the leap," as an adherent of Islam, towards violence for religious reasons. We shouldn't completely turn a blind eye to the fact that Islam was built on violent conquest. That's not to say that Christianity, for instance, didn't benefit greatly, at times, from warring armies spreading their texts by the sword. Nonetheless, in Islam, it is a much more tightly interwoven facet of the religion's history. The conquest of Mecca was engineered by Muhammad himself. It was done to 'avenge' the slaughter of Muslims, but even so, that behavior is kind of a far cry from how Buddha or Jesus might have reacted, according to our knowledge of them. After Muhammad's death, the conquests expanded further and further. Of course, balance that with the fact that, as far as we know historically, many of the great Islamic empires were relatively accepting of minority religions (second class status, but acceptance), which we certainly can't claim about medieval Christianity.

So, yes, most Muslims are regular people. Being Muslim doesn't turn you into a hateful person out for blood. I do think, however, there may be some truth to the idea that there is a minor cultural leaning towards warfare within Islam. What that means to me is, IF you decide you want to use your religion to justify violence, it might be a bit easier as a Muslim. This might also make it easier to form radical groups. In the end, though, extremists will find justification for their actions, regardless of what text they observe.
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Old 2013-04-20, 11:29   Link #27790
ganbaru
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Pakistan judge remands ex-president Musharraf in custody
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...93I04K20130420
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Old 2013-04-20, 11:50   Link #27791
Ridwan
Got A Bad Desire
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
So, yes, most Muslims are regular people. Being Muslim doesn't turn you into a hateful person out for blood. I do think, however, there may be some truth to the idea that there is a minor cultural leaning towards warfare within Islam. What that means to me is, IF you decide you want to use your religion to justify violence, it might be a bit easier as a Muslim. This might also make it easier to form radical groups. In the end, though, extremists will find justification for their actions, regardless of what text they observe.
There's just nothing inherently violent about Islam. There's all there's to it. Ideology is inherently circumstantial, including religion, and their interpretation shift according to the change of environment they face. You have christians creating LRA, or Buddhism with Ikko Ikki, does that mean there's something akin to natural violent tendency within Christianity and Buddhism ? If the Christian countries of sub-Saharan Africa had enough resources to cause mischief, we'd see the LRA as the target of War on Terror. If it weren't Islam, it would be something else. People grab for a resistance ideology, and Islam is right there. It's no different than all the other movements that resisted imperialism, most of which had nothing at all to do with Islam. In the late 19th c, Europe was wracked by terrorism in resistance to the alienation and economic inequalities of capitalism - in Europe's case, Anarchism was the resistance ideology. Is there something wrong with general motion of equality then ?

It's exactly as you said : extremists will find justification for their actions, regardless of whatever they fight for.

Islam is "the other", and it's easy sometimes to make a lot of assumptions and generalizations in lieu of understanding the root causes of the problems.
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Old 2013-04-20, 12:52   Link #27792
Badkarma 1
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Current events bein what they are, nice job Boston! Hope yous can rest easy now.
As for the whole religious talk, as somebody who spent three years in Afghanistan huntin a particular bonafide terrorist/nutcase, I got to meet and talk with those you call Muslims, Arabs, Jihadists, and good old fashioned Mujahadeen.
To put it simple, they are just as curious about us as we are about them, about 50-100 years behind us tech wise, the concept of running water is a new thing! And every damn one if them will greet you with a smile and "Salam Milekum!"(sp?). And yeah they all had guns too! Having a rifle is considered a rite of passage over there, jest like a car over here. Most didn't like the Taliban and the elders considered their ways against the teachings of Allah, and fer the most part the clerics were good at preachin the word of Osama, better than Allah!
In other words a religion can be corrupted to fit a desired plan, and humans can be very underhanded. History has shown how religion can be persecuted by those with an agenda as well, and I don't think I need to retread that path here, since you have the internet at your disposal!
As to the Chechen that is in custody, yeah don't get to comfortable bubba, Russia will be wantin to talk to yas! These clowns were notorious for stirin up shit in Iraq, and hardcore "insurrectionists too.
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Old 2013-04-20, 13:02   Link #27793
Xellos-_^
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in other news.

Quote:
SHANGHAI — A 7.0-magnitude earthquake rocked a mountainous area of China’s western Sichuan province Saturday morning, killing at least 156 people, injuring thousands and leaving tens of thousands of others homeless less than 100 miles from the provincial capital of Chengdu. Premier Li Keqiang hurried to the province as Chinese troops picked through ruins to rescue those still trapped in collapsed buildings. The earthquake struck at 8:02 am Beijing time and the epicenter was located just eight miles deep in Ya’an county, home to about 1.5 million people.
Aftershocks shook the area for hours, including two with a magnitude of 5. State television played footage from security cameras when the quake hit, showing panicked residents scrambling down apartment stairs and rushing from hospital and stores into the street, where many remained overnight, for fear that buildings might collapse.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...dd9_story.html
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Old 2013-04-20, 13:03   Link #27794
ChainLegacy
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
There's just nothing inherently violent about Islam. There's all there's to it.
Okay, but you're not really making any effort to dispute the point I brought up about conquest and Muhammad. 'That's all there is to it' works when a parent scolds his child for misbehaving, not in an academic style discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
Ideology is inherently circumstantial, including religion, and their interpretation shift according to the change of environment they face. You have christians creating LRA, or Buddhism with Ikko Ikki, does that mean there's something akin to natural violent tendency within Christianity and Buddhism ?
You read my post, so you should know that I don't think the presence of extremists in and of itself is any reason to conclude the religion has 'natural violent tendencies.' My point was it might be easier to justify your violent actions when you look at something like Muhammad conquering Mecca as your inspiration when compared to, say, Christianity, where Jesus never conquered anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
People grab for a resistance ideology, and Islam is right there.
Yes. My idea was that perhaps Islam, as a religion, makes it easier to justify violent resistance. NOT that Islam is inherently violent, not that it's evil, but that IF one wanted to justify their violent actions, it seems to me to be easier to point directly to concepts like Jihad and the conquest of Mecca to gather inspiration. You can definitely still do it with Christianity or Buddhism, but you've got to be a bit more roundabout in doing so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
Is there something wrong with general motion of equality then ?
You're really stretching it in attempting to use that as some kind of counter-point to my post... No, actually, I do think there is justification for anger and dissidence against western intrusion in the affairs in the Islamic world. I think the US has done plenty of bad things to further their own agenda. None of it justifies terrorist actions, but I can certainly understand why they have arisen: as a result of foreign policy blow-back. How does this relate to the point I was trying to make?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
It's exactly as you said : extremists will find justification for their actions, regardless of whatever they fight for.
Yes, unfortunately, we are in complete agreement there. The Crusaders, for example, reasoned that they were fighting a "just war" and that Christ's stipulations about harming others only referred to Christians. They had to make these 'exceptions' to arrive at this way of thinking. I don't necessarily think you have to make as many exceptions in the case of Islam. Again, that's NOT to suggest Islam is inherently violent. It's just that I don't see as many 'barriers to entry' to getting into that line of thinking if you're predisposed to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridwan View Post
Islam is "the other", and it's easy sometimes to make a lot of assumptions and generalizations in lieu of understanding the root causes of the problems.
Sure, but I'm not doing that. I'm making a suggestion based on my understanding of history and interpretation of Islamic texts, with the caveat that I am aware there's plenty of more direct inspirations for the resisting actions. I'm not generalizing anybody and referring only to extremists and how it might be comparatively easier to use Islam as an inspiration for said extremism.

Anyways, it's a controversial viewpoint and I can see it's pretty hard to articulate it without giving the impression that I think Islam is 'bad.' I just think it's an interesting idea to ponder that gets buried underneath the debate between xenophobes and politically correct people.
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Old 2013-04-20, 13:14   Link #27795
Tom Bombadil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
in other news.
Yeah, pretty tragic news, especially so soon after the 2008 earth quake in the same region. The death toll is going to climb up, since houses in the countryside are really not built with any earthquake in mind. However, it is not near the disaster level of the 2008 one.
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Old 2013-04-20, 13:28   Link #27796
ChainLegacy
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Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
Yeah, pretty tragic news, especially so soon after the 2008 earth quake in the same region. The death toll is going to climb up, since houses in the countryside are really not built with any earthquake in mind. However, it is not near the disaster level of the 2008 one.
Is it near a fault line? Rushing out of the buildings for fear of their collapse sounds terrifying.
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Old 2013-04-20, 13:29   Link #27797
Xellos-_^
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Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
Is it near a fault line? Rushing out of the buildings for fear of their collapse sounds terrifying.
same fault line as the EQ in 2008.
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Old 2013-04-20, 13:42   Link #27798
Flying Dagger
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I am rather disguised at how people quickly jump to this whole discussion about Muslim, terrorism, or even striping the man of his rights as a human and just have him tied to a stake and stoned to death by the masses.

I feel as if people needed an excuse to differentiate themselves from "terrorists" then engage in this giant circlejerk led by the media.

The bible too has many questionable passages if taken literally. Such topics are often avoided and considered taboo when discussed with christians. The christian god is just as unmerciful to his enemies and non-believers as the "demons of Islam" (with a premise of: if you don't believe in me, you are going to hell some day).

All these hatred building up towards things we do not necessary agree with is what sparks more wars in the future and pass on the flames of hatred. End of the day, I think we all brought terrorism onto ourselves.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
The incentives are appealing, but without the prerequisite of "loli" attached, I assume it's not quite your bread.
72 virgins, yes... oh they must be lolis too? How picky you puny mortal, but sure...

72 male loli virgins, enjoy.

If you get lucky enough there might be a trap or two in there.
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Old 2013-04-20, 14:13   Link #27799
Roger Rambo
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
This is silly. Regardless of how you try to quibble over whether Islamic texts make it easier to justify violent conquest or not, the fact remains that early and medieval Christians were just as able to use Christianity as a justification for expansionist military conquests as Islam was able to. Christianity didn't go from obscure cult to one of the most dominant religions on the planet by playing nice.

The reason Islam produces so many terrorists today is because the theological center of the Muslim world is a fragmented mess left over from colonialism.
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Old 2013-04-20, 15:15   Link #27800
Bri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
The reason Islam produces so many terrorists today is because the theological center of the Muslim world is a fragmented mess left over from colonialism.
This, and the cold war factions supporting rather unsavory regimes and arming rebel forces through out the Middle East and North Africa. Drove a lot of angry, desperate people in to the hands of militant clergy.
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