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Old 2013-05-15, 06:57   Link #28321
NoemiChan
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She's the fisherman? WTF? Who in the world will fish wearing a cosplay?
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Old 2013-05-15, 07:02   Link #28322
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
She's the fisherman? WTF? Who in the world will fish wearing a cosplay?
I updated my post.
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Old 2013-05-15, 07:04   Link #28323
Masuzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
AFAIK it's the Philippines Coast Guard that fired the shots, after the fishing boat allegedly tried to ram their ship.

While it's hard to say what actually happened unless there were video recordings, Manila did itself no favor by trying to deny involvement at first, which just cast everything they claim later in a bad light.

Several issues I have:

- I find the alleged ramming to be, well, peculiar. The PCG vessel wasn't exactly small (100ft long), I'm unclear what could possibly be gained by an smaller, unarmed, and slower fishing boat running into a larger armed vessel, nevermind that the fishing boat would more than likely be running away to avoid being confiscated, which the Philippines are known to do (The PCG ship was attempting to board it as a matter of fact).
Yes it was the Coast Guard, which makes the whole Navy thing sound fishy.

Funny you mention that, on article actually did mention some sort of recording, but it was only vaguely mentioned in passing and I didn't see any mention of it anywhere else.

The whole ramming this is weird but not impossible, it was four-to-one in favour of the fishermen.
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Old 2013-05-15, 07:07   Link #28324
SaintessHeart
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I'll just copypaste the relevant part in this new page since people don't read the previous one.

Seriously though, the Chief of PH CG should apologise, just to defuse the tension. And behind the scenes award the men for their actions. This is a grimy political situation in disputed waters that is best put to rest as soon as possible; nobody wants this to happen, but the men are doing their job and they are under-equipped to handle this kind of situation - no radar, rangefinders, automated warning devices and most importantly, watercannons; just a pair of binoculars and 2 heavy machineguns.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2013-05-15, 07:09   Link #28325
NoemiChan
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This is a grimy political situation in disputed waters that is best put to rest as soon as possible; nobody wants this to happen,
When is the next election in Taiwan?
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Old 2013-05-15, 07:10   Link #28326
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
When is the next election in Taiwan?
With impact? Legislative, 2016.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2013-05-15, 07:10   Link #28327
Masuzu
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They've already talked this over, and Taiwan made it clear they want compensation.
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Old 2013-05-15, 07:13   Link #28328
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasumi View Post
They've already talked this over, and Taiwan made it clear they want compensation.
Unfortunately, they deserved it. And that is the best way to go.

Though it is highly suggested that it is paid directly out of the pockets of whichever morons who assigned the budget to the PHCG; don't they have a fucking AWS mounted on each patrol craft? I know water cannons are expensive, so why don't they just mount a simple fire-fighting hose and pump system to the back of each PV?
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2013-05-15, 07:15   Link #28329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasumi View Post
They've already talked this over, and Taiwan made it clear they want compensation.
That's pretty much the only way to go. Some money goes to the victim's families, and we go back to our old lives. There is no historical reason to go any further than that. My memory of Filipinos and their link to Taiwan was people working as cheap home helpers. Don't ever believe there was any animosity nation-wise that I saw as I grew up.

I mean, the furtherest that the Taiwanese government went was threatening military exercises. Is that really a threat? Really, we all know both sides want to go back to normal ASAP.

(The Philippines and Taiwan both have historically quite new governments. Sort of the effect of the Western Colonisation era severing ties of ancient history, combined with Taiwan being colonised twice by two separate Asian populations. I am sure Ancient peoples in Taiwan and the original population of the Philippines could have interacted, but no one cares about that politically these days.)
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Old 2013-05-15, 07:18   Link #28330
NoemiChan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasumi View Post
They've already talked this over, and Taiwan made it clear they want compensation.
Cash? Give the family cash but not a cent to their government.

If they want cash as well, tell them to have a family member fish inside our territorial waters and get shot then we give them money....
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Old 2013-05-15, 07:24   Link #28331
Masuzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Unfortunately, they deserved it. And that is the best way to go.

Though it is highly suggested that it is paid directly out of the pockets of whichever morons who assigned the budget to the PHCG; don't they have a fucking AWS mounted on each patrol craft? I know water cannons are expensive, so why don't they just mount a simple fire-fighting hose and pump system to the back of each PV?
Knowing Malacannang, they'll dilly-dally around it as long as they can.

Our Coast Guard is notoriously under-funded, the only way I see that happening is if we get some second-hand from US but so far it looks like they don't want any part in this issue.
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Old 2013-05-15, 07:31   Link #28332
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Taiwan's President Ma Ying-jeou Wednesday froze the hiring of Philippine workers to express "strong dissatisfaction" over Manila's handling of the killing of a Taiwanese fisherman, his spokeswoman said.

The real fault lies in the under-equipping of the PHCG, not "killers", "fishermen intruding sovereign waters", "inaccurate shooting", or whatever bullshit that can be brought to mind by either side. As much as the Philippines government need to offer a formal apology, Taiwan must also realise that the PH government does not have the money yet to equip their naval assets, be it CG or PN, to stave off low-intensity threats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasumi View Post
Knowing Malacannang, they'll dilly-dally around it as long as they can.

Our Coast Guard is notoriously under-funded, the only way I see that happening is if we get some second-hand from US but so far it looks like they don't want any part in this issue.
Get the US into the negotiating table, then get them to give away or sell those AWS from their older CGCs. Those equipment are built to last for days at sea in humid and corrosive atmospheres.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2013-05-15, 07:35   Link #28333
hawkeyesvn
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Originally Posted by RRW View Post
I heard Dynasty Warrior is good china history learning tool
If you want to believe that Zhuge Liang can shoot laser from his fan and Lu Bu can solo entire army then yes it's true
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Old 2013-05-15, 07:38   Link #28334
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Cash? Give the family cash but not a cent to their government.

If they want cash as well, tell them to have a family member fish inside our territorial waters and get shot then we give them money....
You can play tough all you like. This will blow over one way or another, both sides have more important things to focus on.
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Old 2013-05-15, 07:45   Link #28335
kyp275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Thanks to USS Cole, everyone is scared of boat bombs now.
to be fair though, I doubt a VBIED is what they had in mind, unless they thought it's standard equipment on fishing boats they chase down

Quote:
If you have tried shooting from a boat before, you will realise that your orientation is completely screwed up when you take aim
Indeed, though it would also depend on the condition of the water and what the ship you're on was doing at the time, both of which I do not know. From what I've read the shots were fired from M14s and M16s.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
They're making us look like idiots. One apology is enough. I don't want to think that racism is on the minds of one side. Why would the entire nation apologies? Do we even knew? Do we even care? Just complain to the personnels who did the crime. Do not involve the whole nation.
From Taiwan's side they don't see there being an actual apology, but rather an insincere attempt that amounted to "yea yea yea, we're sorry, whatever". This notion was reinforced by Manila's rather poor decision in announcing they're going to handle this based on the "one-china policy", which pretty much just added "bitch" after "whatever". The decision to issue the not-quite-apology from an lowly administrator with little authority instead of the higher levels of govt. was just the proverbial slap to go with the "bitch" to complete the whole thing In short, intentional or not, as far as Taiwan is concerned, Philippine somehow managed to further insult them while attempting to "apologize".

Also, they don't want everyone in Philippines to apologize, just the government:

Quote:
But Taiwan's Premier Jiang Yi-huah said it was unacceptable that the apology came from the "people of the Philippines" rather than the government as it was the coastguard that was responsible for the shooting.

"Philippine civil servants killed a person and damaged the boat, the Philippine government cannot avoid responsibility," he said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Cash? Give the family cash but not a cent to their government.

If they want cash as well, tell them to have a family member fish inside our territorial waters and get shot then we give them money....
Not sure where you got the idea that the Taiwan govt is asking for compensation for itself, it has always been to the family. Meanwhiler:

Quote:
Jiang said Perez would offer a donation from the Philippine people to the fisherman's family and it was not clear "whether the Philippine government will be responsible for the compensation".
yea...
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Old 2013-05-15, 07:57   Link #28336
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
to be fair though, I doubt a VBIED is what they had in mind, unless they thought it's standard equipment on fishing boats they chase down
I think so too, but in hindsight, shooting at any vehicle charging straight at you until it stops is the safest method, although it is a PR nightmare.

In a marine environment where you can't set up permanent roadblocks without them floating away, shooting is still the best option when you don't have a really loud warning device or a watercannon.

Quote:
Indeed, though it would also depend on the condition of the water and what the ship you're on was doing at the time, both of which I do not know. From what I've read the shots were fired from M14s and M16s.
Then they are REALLY under-equipped. The SPCG has GPMGs on every PC. And I believe the MMEA also has the same on their boats.

Quote:
From Taiwan's side they don't see there being an actual apology, but rather an insincere attempt that amounted to "yea yea yea, we're sorry, whatever". This notion was reinforced by Manila's rather poor decision in announcing they're going to handle this based on the "one-china policy", which pretty much just added "bitch" after "whatever". The decision to issue the not-quite-apology from an lowly administrator with little authority instead of the higher levels of govt. was just the proverbial slap to go with the "bitch" to complete the whole thing

In short, intentional or not, as far as Taiwan is concerned, Philippine somehow managed to further insult them while attempting to "apologize". They don't want everyone in Philippines to apologize, just the government.
Now that you have highlighted it, it kind of seems to me that Manila screwed it up.

Big time.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2013-05-15, 07:59   Link #28337
Masuzu
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Our current administration is much more a circus than a government usually is.

Most of our current officials lack any sort of backbone or presence of mind.


And the average voter is no better.
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Old 2013-05-15, 08:21   Link #28338
ArchmageXin
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
May I ask on what basis you're calling anyone "like-minded Hitler types"? That's quite the use of Godwin's law there.
I thought Godwin's rule isn't enforced here?
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Old 2013-05-15, 08:24   Link #28339
kyp275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasumi View Post
Our current administration is much more a circus than a government usually is.

Most of our current officials lack any sort of backbone or presence of mind.
heh, that's pretty much what most Taiwanese people say about their government as well
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Old 2013-05-15, 08:27   Link #28340
ArchmageXin
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Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
heh, that's pretty much what most Taiwanese people say about their government as well
The Chinese think so too. So to American republicans.

Come to think of it, maybe all countries can do better with a fewer arm chair heroes?
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