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Old 2013-06-07, 20:28   Link #28741
Irenicus
Le fou, c'est moi
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
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The leaks are not yet over: the secret Presidential cyber warfare directive

I've regained some respect for WaPo for being brave enough to publish the PRISM leak, but the Guardian -- which first exposed the Verizon story -- is really going on fire right now. God damn, Mr. Greenwald. I hope you live a long, happy, free, and safe life, safe from the retaliation that will surely come your way.

The irony is intense for the upcoming Obama-Xi summit. I hope the dear new Premier Xi -- of whom I am no fan of (...Tiananmen thread) -- really puts the hurt in Obama. Drip him in sarcasm. Shame him red. And hack the NSA again for the lulz.

Spoiler:
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Old 2013-06-07, 20:59   Link #28742
ganbaru
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Government likely to open criminal probe into NSA leaks: officials
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...95700K20130608

Iran’s election will not be tweeted
http://blogs.reuters.com/david-rohde...tion-internet/

Neither news aren't much of a surprise.
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Old 2013-06-08, 00:03   Link #28743
JokerD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
That revelation makes for a good meme generator (see verizon commercials)


But as for PRISM? I'm no longer shocked.
I was "shocked" once with this revelation years ago and will not be shocked again (on this issue).
Just think of PRISM as the "software" or the final piece of the that's needed to justify and power up that huge "Facility" slated to open in Bluffdale, Utah this fall (and word is that that "Facility" can store data equivalent to 312 billion iPhones!)
I must admit, I am somethings puzzled by why Americans allow private companies access to data that they do not want their government to have... As if Google and Facebook and all financial companies do not do data mining
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Old 2013-06-08, 00:19   Link #28744
synaesthetic
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Google and Facebook can't directly put you in jail for "seditious behavior" or "terrorist activities." They can just use it to show you more ads.
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Old 2013-06-08, 00:19   Link #28745
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JokerD View Post
I must admit, I am somethings puzzled by why Americans allow private companies access to data that they do not want their government to have... As if Google and Facebook and all financial companies do not do data mining
because google, etc give me free stuff.

if the US gov will give some free stuff they can have access to what info they want.
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Old 2013-06-08, 00:20   Link #28746
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JokerD View Post
I must admit, I am somethings puzzled by why Americans allow private companies access to data that they do not want their government to have... As if Google and Facebook and all financial companies do not do data mining
To them, companies only control their money, not their lives. Unlike Asia, it isn't money = personal life there.
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Old 2013-06-08, 00:33   Link #28747
synaesthetic
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Not to mention if you use Google services or Facebook, you're allowing them to have access just as much as we do.
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Old 2013-06-08, 01:50   Link #28748
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Not to mention if you use Google services or Facebook, you're allowing them to have access just as much as we do.
I use Google's Drive with great tentativeness ... and encryption (not that it would help a lot if they got really fascinated).
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Old 2013-06-08, 13:32   Link #28749
Dextro
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Hum... It looks like this whole "PRISM" thing may just be sloppy reporting... Either that or some very effective cover up. Pick your poison:

The real story in the NSA scandal is the collapse of journalism
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Old 2013-06-08, 13:35   Link #28750
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I use Google's Drive with great tentativeness ... and encryption (not that it would help a lot if they got really fascinated).
Vexx, stop reading our emails. And tell that to your colleagues too.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2013-06-08, 13:37   Link #28751
Xellos-_^
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Vexx, stop reading our emails. And tell that to your colleagues too.
if they were reading your emails, you would already be in prison.
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Old 2013-06-08, 13:47   Link #28752
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
if they were reading your emails, you would already be in prison.
Why would I be? I didn't do anything illegal!
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2013-06-08, 13:48   Link #28753
Irenicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
Hum... It looks like this whole "PRISM" thing may just be sloppy reporting... Either that or some very effective cover up. Pick your poison:

The real story in the NSA scandal is the collapse of journalism
I don't know who the fuck is this Ed Bott (or why ZDNET should be considered above the Post and the Guardian -- and it was explicit that the Guardian editorial staff vetted Greenwald thoroughly before publishing their explosive leak) but it was clear this massive surveillance program is, unfortunately, very, very real given the responses from the Administration itself.

Starting from "Top Intelligence Chief" James Clapper's outburst -- a disgusting display of arrogance going against the very notion of public servant -- and then President Obama's desperate downplaying, which came out close to Clapper's at first, but very quickly toned down afterwards.

While the technical capabilities of such a project isn't much of a surprise (Google does it), the very notion that the Administration has the audacity to conduct its surveillance program in such a blanket, unaccountable way is beyond the pale. This is "Washington pragmatism" at its worst, the very same kind of corrosive "common sense above the commons" that allowed rational people to talk in concrete terms about setting the world on fire with nuclear M.A.D. policies, allowed the military-industrial complex to grow bloatedly like cancer cells unchecked, and allowed the "wise men" of Washington to launch two ruinous wars in the past decade -- which, of course, only means death for ordinary American citizens, and many, many more Iraqis and Afghans.

I'm actually curious of the muted responses here. I understand that many non-US member don't really give a damn, or even feeling schadenfreude, but I find my fellow US citizens' disinterest almost as deeply disturbing as the shrugs from Congress -- I can't believe I'm standing with Rand Paul as one of the minorities on this one -- and the vitriol and very real dangers directed against the real heroes, the whistleblowers who risked everything for moral principles most American politicians pretend to hold dear.

And the New York Times' coverage has been worse than bad. It is almost open collusion.
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Old 2013-06-08, 13:49   Link #28754
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
if they were reading your emails, you would already be in prison.
Why would he be? He didn't mail about something illegal.
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Old 2013-06-08, 14:08   Link #28755
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
I understand that many non-US member don't really give a damn, or even feeling schadenfreude
I think that non-US members should be much more concerned than we living here in the US. I understand the American legalities that differentiate between domestic and international surveillance, but if I lived outside the US, I'd consider moving my digital life to a service also outside the US. This week's revelations indicate that digital records stored on US servers by anyone who appears to be "foreign" with "51% confidence" can be ransacked by American intelligence services.

If you want a glimpse into what is really going on at the National Security Agency, I recommend this piece by long-time Agency critic James Bamford.
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Old 2013-06-08, 14:36   Link #28756
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
I'm actually curious of the muted responses here. I understand that many non-US member don't really give a damn, or even feeling schadenfreude, but I find my fellow US citizens' disinterest almost as deeply disturbing as the shrugs from Congress -- I can't believe I'm standing with Rand Paul as one of the minorities on this one -- and the vitriol and very real dangers directed against the real heroes, the whistleblowers who risked everything for moral principles most American politicians pretend to hold dear.
Everyone understands the idea of stealing and forcible removal of property (which is partly why the guns issue generates such a forceful response), but not everyone can fully grasp the activities and implications that are going on here. Additionally, the political parties aren't polarized on this issue. After 12+ years of extremely polarized politics, having politicians from both sides in agreement may be confusing to some people. It's no longer a "libtards vs. republiturds" issue. People were good at projecting anger and disagreement with the government onto other Americans from "the other side" (red vs. blue and all that), but when it comes to standing against the government itself they have no idea what to do.
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Old 2013-06-08, 14:40   Link #28757
Sumeragi
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My personal opinion? People take this "privacy" thing too seriously. Every time you write something on the web it's being recorded in one format or another, meaning almost anyone with the right means can access the information. The only way you're going to avoid it is to not do anything on the net you don't want others to know or to not be on the net.

Basically, tough luck. You either accept the cost of convenience, or you don't.
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Old 2013-06-08, 14:51   Link #28758
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
My personal opinion? People take this "privacy" thing too seriously. Every time you write something on the web it's being recorded in one format or another, meaning almost anyone with the right means can access the information. The only way you're going to avoid it is to not do anything on the net you don't want others to know or to not be on the net.

Basically, tough luck. You either accept the cost of convenience, or you don't.
That isn't what the government's monitoring is about, though. Make some calls and you don't expect anyone but the phone company to know who you're calling and how long the calls lasted. Send some emails and you don't expect anyone but the account provider to know who you were messaging nor what the contents of the message were. Make some financial transactions and you don't expect anyone to know about it except for the financial institution involved with that particular account.

But now we know that there is one single entity who is monitoring all of those things. This is far beyond worrying because the government may be able to see what you posted on Facebook without friending you first.
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Old 2013-06-08, 15:03   Link #28759
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
That isn't what the government's monitoring is about, though. Make some calls and you don't expect anyone but the phone company to know who you're calling and how long the calls lasted. Send some emails and you don't expect anyone but the account provider to know who you were messaging nor what the contents of the message were. Make some financial transactions and you don't expect anyone to know about it except for the financial institution involved with that particular account.
I guess this is where my expectations are different from others. I don't expect such privacy, based on the idiom "Daytime is heard by birds and nighttime is heard by bats." Anything we say, anything we do has the possibility of being known by someone else. Therefore, I always act as if someone I don't want knowing might get the information.
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Old 2013-06-08, 15:48   Link #28760
SaintessHeart
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It also has got to do with popularity of use. Avoid the more popular sites, dissect links, and no amount of data crunching can make much sense. Avoiding minute updates like Twitter and Facebook keeps yourself blurred too.

Regardless, reputation is more important than privacy. People will eventually find out who you are, maintaining an reasonable posture and image leaves more to be desired than an man of mystery.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.

Last edited by SaintessHeart; 2013-06-08 at 16:01.
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