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Old 2009-06-05, 17:40   Link #2901
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Actually, more information coming out suggests it might have been simply a terribly embarrassing fatal accident. o.O
Indeed. So allow me to quote Sheba: "RIP David Carradine. I would never understand why you did it."
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Old 2009-06-05, 20:09   Link #2902
Shadow Kira01
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Spoiler for speculation:


All we know is that Flight 447 encountered some strong turbulances and disappeared near the Bermuda Triangle. There are currently a total of 228 people on-board the flight in which 3 are pilots, 9 are cabin crew, and the other 216 are passengers. Everything else cannot be considered as facts as that none of it is confirmed.
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Old 2009-06-05, 21:24   Link #2903
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Actually, more information coming out suggests it might have been simply a terribly embarrassing fatal accident. o.O

wondering if he had call some extra Thai room serivce
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Old 2009-06-06, 00:18   Link #2904
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
Spoiler for speculation:


All we know is that Flight 447 encountered some strong turbulances and disappeared near the Bermuda Triangle. There are currently a total of 228 people on-board the flight in which 3 are pilots, 9 are cabin crew, and the other 216 are passengers. Everything else cannot be considered as facts as that none of it is confirmed.
Are you suggesting that the geologist and doctors who were on board hijacked the plane in order to use the people on it for bizarre experiments of some kind? Planes sometimes crash, and when a plane goes down in the middle of the ocean like that, it's not very likely they'll recover much wreakage. It shouldn't be suprising that no trace of the plane has been found yet. If they manage to find anything at all, it's going to take a while.
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Old 2009-06-06, 01:57   Link #2905
SaintessHeart
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If it would be the plane that crash in the water, the strong undercurrents could just spread the debris all over the world. I seriously doubt the black box would be in one piece by then.
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Old 2009-06-06, 02:33   Link #2906
Vexx
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black boxes area really rugged.... but the location signal only has enough energy for about 30 days. Ocean currents follow fairly predictable patterns... but we are dealing with 14000 ft depths there.

Once the sub with its listening gear gets there - there's a fair chance of finding the recorders (using robosubs to grab them once the location is known).
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Old 2009-06-06, 03:01   Link #2907
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
Spoiler for speculation:


All we know is that Flight 447 encountered some strong turbulances and disappeared near the Bermuda Triangle. There are currently a total of 228 people on-board the flight in which 3 are pilots, 9 are cabin crew, and the other 216 are passengers. Everything else cannot be considered as facts as that none of it is confirmed.
Love your hat. The tinfoil really brings out your eyes.
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Old 2009-06-06, 03:38   Link #2908
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Well like with his most famous show David Carradine's legend will continue. Such a sad end though. Anybody hear anything about why he might have done it?
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Old 2009-06-06, 08:39   Link #2909
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
black boxes area really rugged.... but the location signal only has enough energy for about 30 days. Ocean currents follow fairly predictable patterns... but we are dealing with 14000 ft depths there.

Once the sub with its listening gear gets there - there's a fair chance of finding the recorders (using robosubs to grab them once the location is known).
I am not sure about black boxes in general though, but I do know certain makes have anti-sinking mechanisms so they just keep floating until they get washed up or eaten by sharks.

The transponder (which gives the location signal) can be affected at lower depths due to immense water pressure, even if it is a high frequency transponder I doubt even the most sophisticated ranging device can find it.

And no you can't use sonar, the object is too small compared to a sub.
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Old 2009-06-06, 12:18   Link #2910
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I am not sure about black boxes in general though, but I do know certain makes have anti-sinking mechanisms so they just keep floating until they get washed up or eaten by sharks.
From what I've read, the boxes are in the deepest, "safest" parts of the plane. So unless your flotation device can float a whole A330, we're fresh out of luck.

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And no you can't use sonar, the object is too small compared to a sub.
The box itself, yes. But what of the plane around it?
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Old 2009-06-06, 12:47   Link #2911
killer3000ad
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Bodies and a suitcase from Air Frace 447 found. I guess that puts to end any tinfoil theory of the plane entering another dimension.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/am...ash/index.html
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Old 2009-06-06, 15:09   Link #2912
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Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post
Bodies and a suitcase from Air Frace 447 found. I guess that puts to end any tinfoil theory of the plane entering another dimension.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/am...ash/index.html
Another dimension? When was that mentioned in the first place? Bermuda Triangle was never spoke of as another dimension. It was just some sort of mysterious scientific base.

Secondly, recovering 2 corpses when the other 226 are still missing don't mean anything, not mentioning that those 2 corpses haven't been confirmed as part of the 228 missing. Considering that the last discovered wreckages wasn't from the plane, could it be that the 2 corpses belonged elsewhere. It isn't strange that there are lots of boats and planes in the area aside from Flight 447. Of course, this approach to the incident may be greatly influenced by tons of Bermuda Triangle stories I keep on hearing from all over the places in regards to this case.

However, based on the information given, I would say that the plane might have sunk to the bottom of the sea or perhaps, it has something to do with the regional sea creatures like what SaintessHeart had speculate on where the black box had went. Although it is good to take a scientific and logical approach to the mysterious disappearance of Flight 447 and also the concept of "always expect for the worst" but I am sure the family and friends of the victims don't like the sound of it, especially when nothing aside from the discovery of 2 corpses and a suitcase has been found. Perhaps, this explains the multiple numbers of Bermuda Triangle stories. Many people with a goodwill out there don't like the idea of telling the family and friends of the victims "forget it, they are dead" when evidences points as otherwise. More over, the location of the disappearance was quite close to Bermuda Triangle and thus, its get linked naturally considering the number of previous disappearance cases in the area. Nobody can still explain what happened to those 50-100 disappearance cases, even as of now.
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Old 2009-06-06, 15:35   Link #2913
Antares
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Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
Secondly, recovering 2 corpses when the other 226 are still missing don't mean anything, not mentioning that those 2 corpses haven't been confirmed as part of the 228 missing. Considering that the last discovered wreckages wasn't from the plane, could it be that the 2 corpses belonged elsewhere. It isn't strange that there are lots of boats and planes in the area aside from Flight 447. Of course, this approach to the incident may be greatly influenced by tons of Bermuda Triangle stories I keep on hearing from all over the places in regards to this case.
Actually, one of the corpses was confirmed to be a passenger. They also found a briefcase containing a ticket to the plane.

The Bermuda Triangle extends from the Florida keys to Bermuda to Puerto Rico. That plane wasn't anywhere near this area when it disappeared.

There were witnesses from an Air Comet flight seeing a bright flash in the vicinity of the disappearance. The struck by lightning theory is probably the most plausible right now.
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Old 2009-06-06, 15:41   Link #2914
Vexx
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One last time, the crash happened somewhere in the vicinity of N4 00 W29 59'. The Bermuda Triangle's closest point is N18 15' and W66 30'.
(flt 447 crash region location citation: http://www.weathergraphics.com/tim/af447/)

The crash region and the Triangle are over 4200km apart (http://williams.best.vwh.net/gccalc.htm).
We might as well start blaming volcanoes at the South Pole, air-gremlins, or space-genies from the inside of the Hollow Earth. The advocates for the "Triangle" connection seem to fail basic geography or ascribe powers to the Triangle that would make no one on Earth safe from it :P
----------------------
The Weathergraphics link makes interesting reading because of all the information it gives about weather in the equatorial Atlantic regions -- makes me wonder why those routes are even considered a "Good Idea" at certain times of the year.

As for the recent recoveries -- Brazil military is saying they have confirmation, but since they messed up earlier this week I'll tend to wait til the French jointly confirm it. The bright flash report from the Air Comet pilot is interesting and implies a fuel tank eruption after a chain of electrical problems that may have been initiated by a an electrical short (or a unlucky lightning strike that the lightning dissipators and wicks couldn't handle). The electrical short weaving through the ship systems to the fuel tanks would be much like the TWA Flight 800 disaster in 1996.

... and we still can't totally discount a bomb though so far no one has taken credit (which one would expect them to do for the act to have a point). No one taking credit tends to put that in the 'meteor strike' probability area for now.

People doing risk analysis and accident analysis don't rule anything completely out --- but they weight explanations by the amount of supporting data. At some point, a particular one rises to the top of the matrix -- people who play the game "Clue" get a beginner idea of how it works if they play the game well.

Last edited by Vexx; 2009-06-06 at 16:09.
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Old 2009-06-06, 15:41   Link #2915
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Antares View Post
Actually, one of the corpses was confirmed to be a passenger. They also found a briefcase containing a ticket to the plane.

The Bermuda Triangle extends from the Florida keys to Bermuda to Puerto Rico. That plane wasn't anywhere near this area when it disappeared.

They were witnesses from an Air Comet flight seeing a bright flash in the vicinity of the disappearance. The struck by lightning theory is probably the most plausible right now.
Can't have been just that. Planes get hit by lightning all the time, and nothing happens to them.
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Old 2009-06-06, 16:16   Link #2916
Vexx
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Right, large commercial aircraft are designed to take most lightning strikes. From the way the skin is attached to the frame to the wing dissipators - they're designed to lead the current along the outside of the aircraft and wicked off safely.

That doesn't mean a really big strike or a *really lucky* strike might not overload that system. But it makes it less likely. Now the reported flash may have been the fuel tank exploding but again, we don't yet know whether the plane came down in chunks, missing a wing, or simply spiraled down after stalling at high altitude (certain weather conditions can make the airspeed go way below the minimum -- and then the plane drops like a rock. Fast action can recover the situation in most instances). What we have right now are simply a set of clues and not enough to give weight to any particular theory.
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Old 2009-06-06, 17:44   Link #2917
Anh_Minh
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Well, from what I read, the last automated messages indicated a problem with the speed-o-meters.
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Old 2009-06-06, 17:56   Link #2918
Vexx
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As a former pilot ... the airspeed indicators are vital to ensure you're moving enough air across your wings to stay "afloat". If the pitot tubes (air data sensors) freeze up, clog with ice, get plugged -- you can get very bogus airspeed data.

The flight computer does have a "goodness filter" (Kalman filter processing) to account for that using velocity indications from GPS, inertial guidance, accelerometers, and from doppler radar (ground speed) but you and the flight computer really need to know airspeed to understand how to set the flaps, engine power, etc.

Again, we need the black boxes to know what the pilots and/or flight computer were doing and what sensor readings they were getting.

Thunderstorms are real bastards when it comes to channels or big tubes of rapid vertical air movement. The superstorms over the deep ocean can rear up as high as 45000 feet. At that altitude and low pressure, it doesn't take a huge vertical draft or a sudden humidity change (vapor being shot up from lower altitudes and flash frozen) to really screw things up.

One scenario: If the plane were sent into freefall by entering a vertical draft region and the senior pilot was in the potty... a younger pilot might not handle the situation successfully.
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Old 2009-06-06, 18:16   Link #2919
Anh_Minh
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Next recommendation from the BEA: wear diapers.
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Old 2009-06-06, 18:35   Link #2920
Shadow Kira01
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Can't have been just that. Planes get hit by lightning all the time, and nothing happens to them.
Perhaps, the plane had defective parts that wasn't mentioned. Some old planes are still in service as passenger planes in which either the system within the plane needs serious repairs or the exterior plane itself. Plane with leaky tanks, wing-folding issues, etc.. are quite common, so maybe the same goes with the anti-shock armor of the plane. I don't know, lack of information these days.. Tons of Bermuda Triangle conspiracies yet actual information regarding the details of the plane are somewhat unknown.
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