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Old 2013-07-14, 14:00   Link #29401
justinstrife
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Had Trayvon not been beating Zimmerman into the concrete, he'd still be alive. Did Zimmernman make some bad decisions in how the night was going on? Yes. Did Trayvon escalate things and pay the price for beating someone into the concrete like the thug that he was? Yep.

The Jury came to the right conclusion. It's a tragedy that the Media and the President had to even blow this thing up into something it wasn't suppose to be.
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Old 2013-07-14, 14:09   Link #29402
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Glad you could use your alternate reality eye for us to tell us what would've 100% happened if something had changed. And completely unbiased too, after all he was a thug! Because he had no reason to defend himself from an armed, agitated idiot or anything!

Know another way to put it? If Zimmerman had done what he had been told by the police, Trayvon would not have been killed by Zimmerman either! Let's see... which of these situations is actually 100% true...

I just love how Florida apparently lets you instigate an armed brawl against an unarmed person, and then kill the person you started fighting with and get away with it under the guise of self defense.
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Old 2013-07-14, 14:15   Link #29403
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Glad you could use your alternate reality eye for us to tell us what would've 100% happened if something had changed. And completely unbiased too, after all he was a thug! Because he had no reason to defend himself from an armed, agitated idiot or anything!

Know another way to put it? If Zimmerman had done what he had been told by the police, Trayvon would not have been killed by Zimmerman either! Let's see... which of these situations is actually 100% true...

I just love how Florida apparently lets you instigate an armed brawl against an unarmed person, and then kill the person you started fighting with and get away with it under the guise of self defense.
George Zimmerman was talking to a civilian dispatcher. There's a difference. They can only offer suggestions.

And Trayvon was no angel like the media played him out to be by showing a picture of him when he was 12 years old. He'd had run ins with authorities and his school involving marijuana, his texts and tweets weren't allowed as evidence, hell just look at the scapegoats who were fired so the state could pursue GZ.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/13/justic...html?hpt=hp_t2

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/10/justic...html?hpt=hp_c2

Don't want to get shot in a state where anyone can be armed? Don't pound someone's head into the sidewalk. It's pretty freaking simple.
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Old 2013-07-14, 14:27   Link #29404
Vexx
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None of which warrant death. Fact is that Zimmerman didn't do any law-abiding gun owner any favors. He violated protocol, started the altercation, and then killed him instead of backing off from something he started.

If I were Trayvon I would have reacted the same way as I was walking legally on a public sidewalk and was being assaulted/threatened by a jackass. If Trayvon had had a gun and shot Zimmerman - *legally* HE would have been fully justified since he was actually defending himself.

Bets that the verdict would have gone differently in that scenario. The damned law of "stand your ground" is broken when you can start fights and kill the target or when you can hire a young lady escort and then shoot her dead for not giving you sex (not part of the explicit bargain -- see recent Texas verdict).
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Old 2013-07-14, 14:33   Link #29405
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What a joke Vexx. Seriousy? Zimmerman killed Trayvon after his nose had been broken and his head was being bashed into the sidewalk. There was no backing off at that point. Only protecting his life. And you have NO idea how those two acted towards each other. The 6 women in the jury heard more evidence than any of us ever will, and decided he was not guilty. If they had been given 100% of the evidence that the Prosecutors had been with-holding, they might have come with that verdict in 1/4 of the time.

There's a reason why the police didn't arrest him and charges weren't filed in the beginning. Because they knew there was no case.
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Old 2013-07-14, 14:35   Link #29406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Florida jury finds George Zimmerman not guilty
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...96C07420130714

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
Looking from both possible perspectives, he should have been guilty of manslaughter.
More like he should have never went to trial.

But what about a follow up at the apartment complex? There was a problem with apartments being burglarized by the likes of Tray. After Tray was killed, what happened to the crime rate there?


For reference:

Quote:
With a crime rate of 66 per one thousand residents, Sanford has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities. One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 15. Within Florida, more than 92% of the communities have a lower crime rate than Sanford.

Separately, it is always interesting and important to compare a city's crime rate with those of similarly sized communities - a fair comparison as larger cities tend to have more crime. NeighborhoodScout has done just that. With a population of 53,926, Sanford has a combined rate of violent and property crime that is very high compared to other places of similar population size. Regardless of whether Sanford does well or poorly compared to all other cities and towns in the US of all sizes, compared to places with a similar population, it fares badly. Few other communities of this size have a crime rate as high as Sanford.

The crime data that NeighborhoodScout used for this analysis are the seven offenses from the uniform crime reports, collected by the FBI from 17,000 local law enforcement agencies, and include both violent and property crimes, combined.

Now let us turn to take a look at how Sanford does for violent crimes specifically, and then how it does for property crimes. This is important because the overall crime rate can be further illuminated by understanding if violent crime or property crimes (or both) are the major contributors to the general rate of crime in Sanford.

For Sanford, we found that the violent crime rate is one of the highest in the nation, across communities of all sizes (both large and small). Violent offenses tracked included forcible rape, murder and non-negligent manslaughter, armed robbery, and aggravated assault, including assault with a deadly weapon. According to NeighborhoodScout's analysis of FBI reported crime data, your chance of becoming a victim of one of these crimes in Sanford is one in 164.

In addition, NeighborhoodScout found that a lot of the crime that takes place in Sanford is property crime. Property crimes that are tracked for this analysis are burglary, larceny over fifty dollars, motor vehicle theft, and arson. In Sanford, your chance of becoming a victim of a property crime is one in 17, which is a rate of 60 per one thousand population.

Importantly, we found that Sanford has one of the highest rates of motor vehicle theft in the nation according to our analysis of FBI crime data. This is compared to communities of all sizes, from the smallest to the largest. In fact, your chance of getting your car stolen if you live in Sanford is one in 369.
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Old 2013-07-14, 14:41   Link #29407
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
What a joke Vexx. Seriousy? Zimmerman killed Trayvon after his nose had been broken and his head was being bashed into the sidewalk. There was no backing off at that point. Only protecting his life. And you have NO idea how those two acted towards each other. The 6 women in the jury heard more evidence than any of us ever will, and decided he was not guilty. If they had been given 100% of the evidence that the Prosecutors had been with-holding, they might have come with that verdict in 1/4 of the time.

There's a reason why the police didn't arrest him and charges weren't filed in the beginning. Because they knew there was no case.
So how would YOU have reacted to Zimmerman assaulting you? By the current definition of the law, Zimmerman was "not guilty" - I'm holding that the "stand your ground" law is seriously broken and we have multiple examples as evidence.
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Old 2013-07-14, 14:46   Link #29408
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
So how would YOU have reacted to Zimmerman assaulting you?
Did Trayvon show any bruises or cuts from Zimmernman hitting him Vexx? Please do tell the conditions of both of their injuries.

Your choice to use the word assault carries many meanings there Vexx. Want to explain the level of assault Zimmernman was using on Trayvon?

Who was the one with the injuries(other than the bullet wound to the chest)?

If someone does attack me, I'm not going to bash their head against the sidewalk when I'm the one kicking their ass. I was in fights all through high school. Including one, 1v5 where I took the leader out after they jumped me. It took seniors to jump in and save me from the remaining four beating me into a pulp. He deserved it for the months of crap he put me through leading up to it. Funny how he never looked at me, talked to me, or approached me again for the rest of our time in school.

If someone physically attacks me and is bashing my head against the sidewalk, there's only one thing I will do. And that is end the fight as quickly as possible to protect my life. If that means ripping the guy's throat out or putting a bullet hole in his chest, so be it.

So again Vexx. Please explain to me, and everyone else here, the kind of injuries both Trayvon and Zimmerman had on their bodies when Trayvon died?

Facts are not on your side and your argument is as shallow as a kiddy pool.

The Media and the President have done more harm for race relations because of this incident, than anyone realizes. It really has set things back decades. President Obama NEVER should have inserted himself into the debate when the facts were still being realized. The news stations should be held accountable for stirring the hornet's nest and mis-representing the facts, and basically fueling the fire for any riots that have resulted in this case(Oakland I'm looking at you).
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Old 2013-07-14, 14:49   Link #29409
Vexx
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Currently, if someone starts a fight with you and realizes they're in over their head when you are kicking their ass - they can shoot you dead because they were in fear of their life. That is the law. The Zimmerman case reflects that.

We also have the case of the jury verdict that acquitted a man for shooting a female escort because she refused to prostitute herself to him (not part of a legal escort contract) and he shot her dead when she didn't return his money (which wasn't for sex). Texas verdict based on "stand your ground".

I should also point out that "table and chair" combat involves using whatever tools are around to end the fight - including the sidewalk. The idea is that the other isn't moving any more so you can get away or call for help. And once you realize they have a gun, you're going to make sure they aren't moving because you really can't get away.


I view Zimmerman the way I view the dumb-as-shit people who shoot someone while "cleaning their gun" or "showing off a weapon", etc. A dumbass that is, in the long run, making it more difficult for me to protect my ability to own weapons because of the rule of "this is why we can't have nice things".
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Old 2013-07-14, 14:55   Link #29410
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Currently, if someone starts a fight with you and realizes they're in over their head when you are kicking their ass - they can shoot you dead because they were in fear of their life. That is the law.

We also have the case of the jury verdict that acquitted a man for shooting a female escort because she refused to prostitute herself to him (not part of a legal escort contract) and he shot her dead when she didn't return his money (which wasn't for sex). Texas verdict based on "stand your ground".
The two cases are very separate and need to be looked at such Vexx. I am unfamiliar with that case in Texas and will need to look into it before I make any comments about it, as I know nothing about it. So forgive me if I can't respond to it with any opinion or thought.

Again Vexx, who had the physical signs that result from fights? Who had bruises, cuts, gashes, and broken bones and who didn't? Take your damn blinders off for one moment and think about that. If a guy swings at you and misses, does that give you the right to break his nose, then bash his head against a sidewalk, potentially killing him? We don't even know who actually, physically, attacked who. Words are nothing, and no reason for a physical fight. So who physically struck at the other first? The only one with the injuries is Zimmerman. Don't you find that odd from your side of the argument?? At all?

People have died from nothing more than tripping and hitting their head on a sidewalk. Trayvon very easily could have killed him with one change in impact with the concrete.
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Old 2013-07-14, 14:55   Link #29411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post

If someone does attack me, I'm not going to bash their head against the sidewalk when I'm the one kicking their ass. I was in fights all through high school. Including one, 1v5 where I took the leader out after they jumped me. It took seniors to jump in and save me from the remaining four beating me into a pulp. He deserved it for the months of crap he put me through leading up to it. Funny how he never looked at me, talked to me, or approached me again for the rest of our time in school.

If someone physically attacks me and is bashing my head against the sidewalk, there's only one thing I will do. And that is end the fight as quickly as possible to protect my life. If that means ripping the guy's throat out or putting a bullet hole in his chest, so be it.

God forbid you end up on TV and get slandered and pummeled 24/7 by the liberal media complex like Bernhard Goetz
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Old 2013-07-14, 15:01   Link #29412
maplehurry
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Had Trayvon not been beating Zimmerman into the concrete, he'd still be alive.
Right, the only mistake Martin made was he wasn't carrying a gun at the time.
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Old 2013-07-14, 15:01   Link #29413
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
God forbid you end up on TV and get slandered and pummeled 24/7 by the liberal media complex like Bernhard Goetz
Don't forget Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson, your own President is taking sides without knowing the facts, the media portrays Trayvon as a sweet little 12 year old, instead of the 6'+ 17 year old.

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Old 2013-07-14, 15:03   Link #29414
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
The two cases are very separate and need to be looked at such Vexx. I am unfamiliar with that case in Texas and will need to look into it before I make any comments about it, as I know nothing about it. So forgive me if I can't respond to it with any opinion or thought.

Again Vexx, who had the physical signs that result from fights? Who had bruises, cuts, gashes, and broken bones and who didn't? Take your damn blinders off for one moment and think about that. If a guy swings at you and misses, does that give you the right to break his nose, then bash his head against a sidewalk, potentially killing him? We don't even know who actually, physically, attacked who. Words are nothing, and no reason for a physical fight. So who physically struck at the other first? The only one with the injuries is Zimmerman. Don't you find that odd from your side of the argument?? At all?

People have died from nothing more than tripping and hitting their head on a sidewalk. Trayvon very easily could have killed him with one change in impact with the concrete.
Who stalked the other? Zimmerman could have stayed in his car.

Yes, we don't know how aggressively Zimmerman tried to... what? Run Treyvon off? Get him to admit he was a criminal? But we are pretty sure he's the one who initiated the confrontation.

So, hey, maybe he was super polite about it, though I have trouble picturing that. Maybe he only used harsh words, which I suppose is possible. Or maybe he started the fight and shot when Treyvon got the upper hand. Which is also possible. So's anything in between. But we'll never know either way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Don't want to get shot in a state where anyone can be armed? Don't pound someone's head into the sidewalk. It's pretty freaking simple.
The way the case went, "shoot first" looks like a better bet. Right behind "don't be in that state at all".
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Old 2013-07-14, 15:06   Link #29415
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Who stalked the other? Zimmerman could have stayed in his car.

Yes, we don't know how aggressively Zimmerman tried to... what? Run Treyvon off? Get him to admit he was a criminal? But we are pretty sure he's the one who initiated the confrontation.

So, hey, maybe he was super polite about it, though I have trouble picturing that. Maybe he only used harsh words, which I suppose is possible. Or maybe he started the fight and shot when Treyvon got the upper hand. Which is also possible. So's anything in between. But we'll never know either way.
Trayvon had no injuries other than a bullet wound. So Trayvon didn't just 'get an upper hand'. Have any of you ever been in fights before? Serious ones not middle school scuffles.





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Old 2013-07-14, 15:08   Link #29416
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Remember that "Assault" doesn't always mean physical violence. In 'Assualt and Battery' the battery is the phyical violence.

Common Law: Assualt: "an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact."
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Old 2013-07-14, 15:10   Link #29417
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
If a guy swings at you and misses, does that give you the right to break his nose, then bash his head against a sidewalk, potentially killing him?
Regardless of any harm to his body, if some fool comes yelling at you while brandishing an armed weapon that you're a "fucking criminal", and has been following you for quite some ways... what are you supposed to do? Just hope he keeps his cool and doesn't fire off a shot? Please, he was trying to, in your own words, "end the fight as quickly as possible to protect [his] life".

Besides, you can start a fight without causing harm. Zimmerman could have just as easily flashed the gun, started shouting things, or even physically harassed him (such as shoving) while doing either.

The main issue, as stated before, that lead to the "Not Guilty" is likely the prosecution attempting to force a murder charge without necessary evidence instead of just going for manslaughter or even reckless endangerment.
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Old 2013-07-14, 15:11   Link #29418
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Trayvon had no injuries other than a bullet wound. So Trayvon didn't just 'get an upper hand'. Have any of you ever been in fights before? Serious ones not middle school scuffles.
So it turned against Zimmerman very fast. What about it?
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Old 2013-07-14, 15:11   Link #29419
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Remember that "Assault" doesn't always mean physical violence. In 'Assualt and Battery' the battery is the phyical violence.

Common Law: Assualt: "an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact."
And again, Vexx has no evidence of such an action. The jury saw 100x the evidence the rest of us have, and all reached the same agreement on the charges.

He has avoided almost every single question I've asked him. I wonder why...
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Old 2013-07-14, 15:13   Link #29420
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
So it turned against Zimmerman very fast. What about it?
Wow. I can't believe that post of yours. The guy's getting his damn head bashed in and that's what you say in response.
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