AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-08-22, 04:02   Link #30121
Mr Hat and Clogs
Troublemaker Fanclub
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 31
Isn't he lucky he wasn't executed for espionage though? Since that is what would have happened back in the day.
__________________
Mr Hat and Clogs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 04:05   Link #30122
aohige
( ಠ_ಠ)
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
Well, harsh penalties for espionage is generally when the information leak is in the interest of an enemy state.
This is a leak to the general public, so it's not quite the same gravity or animosity.
__________________
aohige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 04:09   Link #30123
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Justice has been served. The sentence was on the light side, though.
The law has been served.

Justice? We will find that out only after a few decades. Very telling that Obama had to remove the part of his old campaign website that speak of protecting whistle blowers.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3658815.html

This was REMOVED from the website. Presumably because Obama no longer believes in it.
Quote:
Often the best source of information about waste, fraud, and abuse in government is an existing government employee committed to public integrity and willing to speak out. Such acts of courage and patriotism, which can sometimes save lives and often save taxpayer dollars, should be encouraged rather than stifled. We need to empower federal employees as watchdogs of wrongdoing and partners in performance. Barack Obama will strengthen whistleblower laws to protect federal workers who expose waste, fraud, and abuse of authority in government. Obama will ensure that federal agencies expedite the process for reviewing whistleblower claims and whistleblowers have full access to courts and due process.
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 04:14   Link #30124
Sumeragi
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
Treason =/= Whistleblower

Anyone who cannot tell the difference needs to check their definition.
Sumeragi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 04:18   Link #30125
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Treason =/= Whistleblower

Anyone who cannot tell the difference needs to check their definition.
Depends on the definition of Treason. Is it treason to serve the population above the government?

The only way it is treason to tell the population the truth, is if the sum total national population is also the enemy of the State.
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 04:21   Link #30126
Sumeragi
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
I guess there is no reason to talk with those who truly cannot differentiate "serving the population" and treason.
Sumeragi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 04:38   Link #30127
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
I guess there is no reason to talk with those who truly cannot differentiate "serving the population" and treason.
Treason is about betraying your nation. In a nation ruled by its people, the PEOPLE are the nation. If it is treason to serve the people, then the only way to not be a traitor is to be a despot.

And "no reason to talk to me"?
Whatever you say, my lord and master.
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 04:46   Link #30128
Sumeragi
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
And "no reason to talk to me"?
Whatever you say, my lord and master.
Fine fine, no reason to continue discussing this particular issue.
Sumeragi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 04:53   Link #30129
Ridwan
Got A Bad Desire
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: قلوب المؤمنين
From what I've heard so far, the whole Snowden affair is about how this one guy basically threw away his entire life to break a story, and his intended audience couldn't give a damn. My usual circle of friends is mostly lefty Americans in their 20s, and they've never for once brought up the issue. Granted, they're more learned then your average 20s. They read and talk with professors and stuff.
__________________
Ridwan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 05:14   Link #30130
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
China vets brokerages' computer systems after $3.8 billion buy error
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...97L09O20130822

Mugabe sworn in for five more years as Zimbabwe's president
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...97L0CW20130822
__________________

ganbaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 05:51   Link #30131
risingstar3110
Dead Master ★ BRS
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
After careful thought about the case, I admit that there is grey in both side. I can take a "it can't be help", but don't tell me that this was justified.

Firstly my apologise to any Chinese AS member. Your country is antagonised so much in the West that it's easy to make a target for bad example. But look at this scenario...

A Chinese general was found guilty of kidnapping and raping 3 Tibetan teenagers. But due to his high profile, the PLA military court decided to keep matter in their own hand, not release the news to the public but still discharge that general service, and cut off his pensions. One of the attended soldiers found the punishment unjustified, decided to leak the news into public. This sparks backslash from the Tibetan population, and there were reports that Chinese ethnic military and police personnel stationed in Tibet became target for revenges. Due to that, the soldier who leaked the information out was sentenced to 35 years in jail. The sentence said:
"The message will be sent in a loud and clear fashion to all those in uniform that they do not get to make decisions on what is legitimate and what is not, with regard to PLA policy"


.....of course we are talking about China (see above) and sensitive issue like rape so it's easy to brush them off as bad guy. But can you call this anymore wrong than the Manning's case?
__________________
risingstar3110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 05:57   Link #30132
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
The US government won either way. Now we know the next time someone saw the government committing war crimes, they would have to realised they would get 35 years in prison for exposing it.

Glad we got that down on record.

edit: Scratch that, it's if you are a US citizen. If you are a non-American then you would just be killed.
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 06:09   Link #30133
Sumeragi
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
Justice and integrity won. In a world where people ignore the complexities of the battlefield and label anything as war crimes to suit their personal view points, only strict application of the law is justice.
Sumeragi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 06:16   Link #30134
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Justice and integrity won. In a world where people ignore the complexities of the battlefield and label anything as war crimes to suit their personal view points, only strict application of the law is justice.
Currently the "Battlefield" is the entire planet, according to the United States. To talk of complexities of the battlefield is just an excuse for the US government to do what they like to anyone, anywhere.

As others said before... we know you didn't break your own laws; we are just surprised that you didn't have to. Good to know that telling the truth is illegal, we will be far more careful from now on.
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 06:18   Link #30135
Sumeragi
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
"Truth" is just a useless word these days, since everyone thinks their truth is the only truth (including myself, obviously).

For that matter, mind listing those supposed war crimes Manning revealed?
Sumeragi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 06:25   Link #30136
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
"Truth" is just a useless word these days, since everyone thinks their truth is the only truth (including myself, obviously).

For that matter, mind listing those supposed war crimes Manning revealed?
I see that you have gone so far as to give up the very idea of truth entirely. Your choice. But the rest of us would rather not live in lies.


This is just what I found from Google in 10 seconds.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3788126.html
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 06:31   Link #30137
Sumeragi
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
I see that you have gone so far as to give up the very idea of truth entirely. Your choice. But the rest of us would rather not live in lies.
When people tell lies to make themselves the truth, especially the the self-rightous people who endanger all with their myopic crusades, I rather be a pessimist. It's said that it's the very ones who think they uncover the lies of this world are the ones making up the lies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
This is just what I found from Google in 10 seconds.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3788126.html
1. How is this a war crime?
2. How is this a war crime?
3. How is this a war crime?
4. How is this a war crime?
5. How is this a war crime?
6. How is this a war crime?


No really, where are the damn war crimes you alleged were committed and kept to secrecy?
Sumeragi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 06:50   Link #30138
Mentar
Sore wa himitsu desu!
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Treason =/= Whistleblower

Anyone who cannot tell the difference needs to check their definition.
Excuse me? Treason?

So it is treason to uncover American war crimes when the supposed "normal channels" refuse to act?

I'm a bit puzzled by your loose use of the word "justice". Let me point out that for the various documented war crimes, crimes against humanity, homicides during "enhanced interrogation" (torture), literally NOONE was ever held accountable (save some fall guys in Abu Ghraib). NOONE.

Which leads to the interesting result that those who commit crimes are left off the hook, but those who point out these crimes are punished with jail time.

This is "justice" in your book?
Mentar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 06:54   Link #30139
Sumeragi
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
See the post above. Exactly what war crimes were committed at any stage which did not go unpunished?
Sumeragi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-08-22, 07:11   Link #30140
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Here is a fun one:
8 Real Spies And Actual Bad Guys Who Got Shorter Sentences Than Bradley Manning
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
current affairs, discussion, international, news

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 00:18.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.