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Old 2013-10-16, 05:24   Link #31181
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
This is a simple matter of political extremists hijacking a political party, who are about to fail an extortion attempt, and who are dead set to rather shoot the hostage than giving in.

Bizarre.
And with Boehner failing to even created a bill that his own people would vote for, at this point we can pretty much ignore him. The GOP controls the House, but the GOP doesn't control the GOP.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...37290701284388

Boehner was "planning" to make something that show the House GOP can actually do something about the shutdown. Now he can't.

But the greatest piece of news coming out of it is that the markets were not shocked; this was already accounted for. Boehner incompetentence is now considered the norm to stock brokers, and they planned accordingly.
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Old 2013-10-16, 06:58   Link #31182
ganbaru
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Senators seek budget deal, House GOP effort flops
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...10-16-07-30-23

Short-term debt deal won't mask big barriers ahead
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...10-16-03-06-06

Greek Parliament lifts 6 MPs' immunity
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/greek...g-mps-immunity
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Old 2013-10-16, 08:36   Link #31183
Mentar
Sore wa himitsu desu!
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
But the greatest piece of news coming out of it is that the markets were not shocked; this was already accounted for. Boehner incompetentence is now considered the norm to stock brokers, and they planned accordingly.
I doubt that this is the case. I feel it's more like "they couldn't possibly DO that, could they?"

Look around: 69% of Tea Partiers say that a default would be no problem. Seriously. If anything, they like the idea of the government collapsing. Anything to topple this Kenyan Muslim Al-Qaeda Lover who is destroying America.

The same day that welfare cheques can't be sent anymore, hell will break lose on the market. This is going to be a disaster.
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Old 2013-10-16, 08:58   Link #31184
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei
Why is all the discussion only about a "grand coalition" between the CDU/CSU and the SPD? What about a CDU/CSU+Green coalition? Is there more antipathy toward Merkel and CDU among the Greens than among the SPD membership?
Yes, absolutely!
Well, apparently there was not so much antipathy as to interfere with negotiations to form a government.

Merkel’s Options Narrow as Greens Withdraw From Talks

Quote:
Despite their roots in the leftist and environmental movements of the 1960s and ‘70s, the Greens have recently appealed to a more centrist audience, and the idea of a coalition had sparked the imaginations many younger conservatives.
However,

Quote:
Conservative leaders said the Greens withdrew from coalition talks early Wednesday after concluding that differences over crucial issues, including a minimum wage, tax increases and changes to the public health insurance system, were too large to overcome.
The SPD also favors a minimum wage law and some increases to government spending. The CDU/CSU, like the Republicans here, refuse to countenance a tax increase. These seem like the same issues that prevented a CDU/Green coalition.
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Old 2013-10-16, 10:14   Link #31185
ArchmageXin
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I think at this point I can effectively say American voters are locked into a prisoner's dilemma-an illusion of choice which is no choice at all.

Oh, in other news, North Korea is now a Monarchy.
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Old 2013-10-16, 10:22   Link #31186
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
I think at this point I can effectively say American voters are locked into a prisoner's dilemma-an illusion of choice which is no choice at all.

Oh, in other news, North Korea is now a Monarchy.
Monarchies don't have presidents.
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Old 2013-10-16, 10:47   Link #31187
Ithekro
The Comet is Coming
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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The ones I find to be the most against the ACA are white lower middle class families that are not on welfare. They tend to have a lot of veterans, either in the family or associate with other families that do have them. Vietnam veterans that did not join the hippie movements. Most tend to speak about loyalty to the Constitution and that the Predident has shat all over it. They want Congress to stand up to Obama and do their job to uphold the Constitution. Otherwise they see civil war in the near future as the "Americans" (I would say Constitutionalist) try to take the country back.
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Old 2013-10-16, 11:00   Link #31188
Sugetsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
try to take the country back.
Try to take the country back from the black man.
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Old 2013-10-16, 11:08   Link #31189
Neki Ecko
"Art"ful Dodger
 
 
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I am a vet and I totally onboard with ACA, sure it has problems but for my Dad who could not get Health Care for the longest of time, can find get some.

I thought about this is that GOP is a falling brand right now, with all of this backlash from this mess and Tea Party is breathing down their necks. This is going to cost them and cost them big, they kind of glad that some of them redraw their districts.
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Old 2013-10-16, 11:09   Link #31190
Ithekro
The Comet is Coming
 
 
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They were talking about defending the Constitution during the Clinton adminitration. And they didn't agree with all Bush did either, though my impression is they at least though the degrading of the Constitution was less at that time or shifted the blame to Congress for not doing their job (or perhaps more along the lines of not upholding their oath to defend the Constitution) since Bush himself seems to not do much at all from their perspective.
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Old 2013-10-16, 11:19   Link #31191
GDB
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Those "Constitutionalists" you speak of realize that there's been many amendments to it, right? And that the Supreme Court ruled it constitutional?
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Old 2013-10-16, 11:34   Link #31192
SaintessHeart
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 26
Bipartisan compromise reached in Senate to raise debt limit, reopen government: Harry Reid

*claps*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sen Joe Donelly
We are not here as Republicans, not as Democrats, but as Americans.
Quote:
Cruz finishes his statement, walking away through the media throng without taking questions. We've returned our video to the Senate floor, where Sen. McCain is thanking the leaders for bringing about an agreement, while also calling the crisis "one of the more shameful chapters" he's witnessed in the Senate
At least he is still sane.

Dow jumped 188 points.
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Old 2013-10-16, 11:42   Link #31193
Libros
I never hid my hurts.
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Thank god. This better not happen again, probably will though unless something's done.
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Old 2013-10-16, 11:51   Link #31194
Ithekro
The Comet is Coming
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Those "Constitutionalists" you speak of realize that there's been many amendments to it, right? And that the Supreme Court ruled it constitutional?
For the ACA they tend to think it was illegally passed in Congress while it was out of session. At least that is the story they tell me.

For the mindset, look up the party known as the "American Independent Party" from probably the 1970s. This is were some conservative people ended up that didn't care for the Republican Party after Nixon and might not have voted for Reagan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neki Ecko View Post
I am a vet and I totally onboard with ACA, sure it has problems but for my Dad who could not get Health Care for the longest of time, can find get some.

I thought about this is that GOP is a falling brand right now, with all of this backlash from this mess and Tea Party is breathing down their necks. This is going to cost them and cost them big, they kind of glad that some of them redraw their districts.
Baby Boomer generation and some slipping forward to being in their early 50s. This is the age group I hear bitching about these things the most. Sometimes I hear from world War II vets or familes. But then my impression is that my grandparents didn't like FDR.
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Last edited by Ithekro; 2013-10-16 at 12:13. Reason: double post
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Old 2013-10-16, 12:10   Link #31195
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libros View Post
Thank god. This better not happen again, probably will though unless something's done.
It sounds like this only buys time until March or so. Expect this exact same thing to happen again, but with a different spin than "No Obamacare", since that'll have been in effect already.
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Old 2013-10-16, 12:31   Link #31196
Libros
I never hid my hurts.
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
It sounds like this only buys time until March or so. Expect this exact same thing to happen again, but with a different spin than "No Obamacare", since that'll have been in effect already.
I won't be surprised if we end up with a riot or two against this kind of thing one of these days. That or a mass protest against congress. We'll see.
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Old 2013-10-16, 12:38   Link #31197
Neki Ecko
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I think that they will be calm down since 2014 is mid-terms for some of those seats and with what was going on this year, I have a strange feeling that Dem is going to have control of the House again.
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Old 2013-10-16, 12:44   Link #31198
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neki Ecko View Post
I think that they will be calm down since 2014 is mid-terms for some of those seats and with what was going on this year, I have a strange feeling that Dem is going to have control of the House again.
the Dems will make gain on the house and keep the senate but Repubs will keep the house.

One thing i like to see the Dems do is step up the ground game on the local level. School boards, county seats and state legislature. Getting control of the State legislature is crucial to gaining control of the house.
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Old 2013-10-16, 15:03   Link #31199
GDB
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The only seats in jeopardy are the ones in swing areas. Most of those actually responsible are not in swing areas, because those areas do not vote in crazies.
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Old 2013-10-16, 15:13   Link #31200
SeijiSensei
AS Oji-kun
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
For the ACA they tend to think it was illegally passed in Congress while it was out of session. At least that is the story they tell me.
And as we all know it is an untrue story. You can go back and look at my other post with the vote for the ACA in both chambers.

Maybe they are confusing the ACA vote with the controversy over Presidential appointments which did concern whether the Senate was in session. The resolution of that question is working its way through the courts.

My guess is that they are not confusing anything with anything. They are simply very unhappy with an America that looks less and less like the whitebread culture of the 1950s and early 1960s. Few people on the far right in America today have any comprehension of the complexities of governing a large and unruly country in a period of global disruption and change. The election of a black as President just confirmed their view that the country as they think of it is going down the tubes. Take a look at these "word clouds" that represent the results of focus groups with Republicans. When asked about the future of our country, the dominant emotion is fear.

Partly these responses are the result of the incessant right-wing propaganda machine, but a lot of it represents a real loss of status, especially among white men with less than college educations. The types of jobs that these men held when I was growing up are simply not available any more. In the meantime, all the economic and taxing decisions made over the past three decades have sucked most of the benefits of economic growth and placed them in the hands of the wealthy. Thus we get the "what's the matter with Kansas" phenomenon, where the people who have been most adversely affected by Republican policies nevertheless continue to vote for that Party. Marx would call it "false consciousness."
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