News Stories

[Fireminer]

Maybe the idea of living in a forest village wouldn't be as bad as it sounded...

[ganbaru]

Fast-moving storm kills five as tornadoes rip U.S. Midwest
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9AG0BS20131118

Gulf airlines splash out over $150 billion as Boeing launches new jet
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9AF0DF20131117

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Fireminer

Hey, how long would this Drama of Hypocritsy came to an end?

The very business of spying is to spy on people and not admit it. It's not really even hypocrisy any more.

[ArchmageXin]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

The only hypocrisy comes from those "human rights" activists who are undermining the security of their countries.

So there is no difference between spying between government entities and spying on common citizens?

Then what the hell was everyone holding up the great Chinese Fire Wall for all these years? I thought spying on common citizens was a vile act decried by mature democracies everywhere.

Then we found out the NSA was violating the privacy of the entire planet...and suddenly it is all ok.

[GDB]

No, it's only ok for Sumeragi. Pretty much everyone else here is opposed to it.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by ArchmageXin

So there is no difference between spying between government entities and spying on common citizens?

Some people seem to like to leap to conclusions when discussing the topic of spying on leaders of countries.

[Ridwan]

Well, it got blown up, and that's good. I'm of course, biased here. But about 90% of Australians, certainly including my friends among them, agree that Tony is the worst answer possible to Australia's virtually non-existent foreign policy.

[ArchmageXin]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Some people seem to like to leap to conclusions when discussing the topic of spying on leaders of countries.

What of the NSA program of collection 1/2 million German telephone calls a month? Seriously, the crux of this sudden spy outrage came from Snowden's revelations, which showed the NSA stepped way out of bounds into 1984 zone, if not outright into the twilight zone.

And how humorous once upon a time Google was willing to pull out of China over "spying on the Dali Lama and American businesses." And Congress investigate/banning Huawei over the fear of "Chinese spying on the entire U.S"

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by ArchmageXin

And how humorous once upon a time Google was willing to pull out of China over "spying on the Dali Lama and American businesses." And Congress investigate/banning Huawei over the fear of "Chinese spying on the entire U.S"

Which makes a lot of sense. It's what they would do.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by ArchmageXin

What of the NSA program of collection 1/2 million German telephone calls a month? Seriously, the crux of this sudden spy outrage came from Snowden's revelations, which showed the NSA stepped way out of bounds into 1984 zone, if not outright into the twilight zone.

And how humorous once upon a time Google was willing to pull out of China over "spying on the Dali Lama and American businesses." And Congress investigate/banning Huawei over the fear of "Chinese spying on the entire U.S"

The moral of the story should be that spy agencies are filled with evil people who don't give a damn about anyone's privacy or rights. Governments all over the world just pretend to not know this until they're forced to. We should simply assume that we are all being spied on at all times and by every agency.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

The moral of the story should be that spy agencies are filled with evil people who don't give a damn about anyone's privacy or rights. Governments all over the world just pretend to not know this until they're forced to. We should simply assume that we are all being spied on at all times and by every agency.

When it comes to a self-interest perspective, that is a smaller evil to a greater good.

It all depends on who you align your interests with.

[Sumeragi]

Evil is relative. I consider activists to be a greater evil most of the time.

[SaintessHeart]

As evil as they are to autocrats/dictators/lawmakers. Other side of the spectrum.

Still the most evil are the elitists who claim racial and institutional superiority over their fellow human beings just because they come from privileged backgrounds, or that their history textbooks tell them so. Put bullets in both their legs and they will still crawl towards the nearest medical kit, if not grovel for mercy.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

When it comes to a self-interest perspective, that is a smaller evil to a greater good.

It all depends on who you align your interests with.

I guess it really depends on whether you believe in things like rights and the rule of law.

[Anh_Minh]

Or on whether you believe you'll be friends with the dictators.

I've seen my share of people who think that, if the dictators come, they'll be able to cozy up with the powerful. I've got my doubts, but maybe they're right.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I guess it really depends on whether you believe in things like rights and the rule of law.

It really depends on whether such "rights" have become "entitlements". I've seen too many examples of the word "rights" being thrown around to hide the (unconscious) selfish intentions.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I guess it really depends on whether you believe in things like rights and the rule of law.

I believe in rights, but I don't exactly believe in rule of law. The latter is often funded by taxpayers, and stupid laws are a waste of money; like controlling exchange of thoughts and ideas through speech, regulating internet, etc. It is a worse sinkhole than the military-industrial complex.

Laws have to be always challenged so it is flexible, while maintaining a line of ethics for people not to cross, because times and paradigms change. A blackwhite enforcement is just another detriment to the progress of society and a waste of money.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Or on whether you believe you'll be friends with the dictators.

I've seen my share of people who think that, if the dictators come, they'll be able to cozy up with the powerful. I've got my doubts, but maybe they're right.

There are two powerful things in this world - interests and information. Since society is always moving, the direction is determined by a leader - a leadership that can be usurped with either of that two.

Usually today it is information thanks to the "1%" inculcated in many people across the world. Class warfare might be just around the corner when the soup boils off the potlid.

And there is PLENTY of money to be made from that. Decentralised markets FTW!

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

It really depends on whether such "rights" have become "entitlements". I've seen too many examples of the word "rights" being thrown around to hide the (unconscious) selfish intentions.

My word! So "rights" is like "national security"?

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

It really depends on whether such "rights" have become "entitlements". I've seen too many examples of the word "rights" being thrown around to hide the (unconscious) selfish intentions.

Rights should very well be synonymous with entitlements. That's why they're rights and not privileges.

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

I believe in rights, but I don't exactly believe in rule of law. The latter is often funded by taxpayers, and stupid laws are a waste of money; like controlling exchange of thoughts and ideas through speech, regulating internet, etc. It is a worse sinkhole than the military-industrial complex.

Laws have to be always challenged so it is flexible, while maintaining a line of ethics for people not to cross, because times and paradigms change. A blackwhite enforcement is just another detriment to the progress of society and a waste of money.

The rule of law is the idea that laws are applicable to everyone and every entity in a society. You're thinking of legalism; which is an altogether different concept. A concept that's probably well-liked by spy agencies at that.

[Ithekro]

What century is this again? I'm fairly sure what is a Right or not was established during the Enlightenment over two centuries ago. It just took time for those Rights to be considered viable for everyone, and not just white males that owned land, or who ever happened to be te dominate culture on said land if no Europeans were involved.