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Old 2014-04-07, 12:06   Link #33421
Tom Bombadil
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Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
A Japanese free man can go where he likes in Japan. I said this before, but if that offends you so much, you can always tell China to pull a Putin and just invade. You have no right to demand the Japanese to do what you want them to do. And if obedience is what you demand for proper relations with Japan, then Japan is right to ignore it.
Ha, I knew this argument will come up since it is the most obvious one. The thing is, I thought this whole topic came up because the Chinese refused to invite the Japanese to party, and people were bashing China for that. Now we can't have a say of whom we invite? We are not free men?


As for being "free" part, come on, we are not dumb juveniles shouting "I am going to do whatever I want!" Sure, one is free to do things, at the same time, he must be ready to take the responsibilities and face the consequences. Abe knew fully well that the visit would irreversibly put the relation in a deep freezing state, if not worse. That is a simple fact.

Seriously, many of these political arguments are more about which sides you are on. Causes and principles are twisted all the time. I am not surprised by any of it. But whatever, some times I can't resist the temptation to "correct" the "ignorant", fully knowing how futile it is.
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Old 2014-04-07, 12:13   Link #33422
SeijiSensei
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The LDP has traditionally protected small-scale agriculture to maintain its support in rural areas. This policy has largely constituted a subsidy from Japanese consumers to those agricultural providers.

Quote:
The first thing we need to recognize is that Japan’s current agricultural policy has been less than a success. If the goal of protection is to give domestic industry a chance to develop and stand on its own feet, then the protection of Japan’s farm industry has failed in its purpose.

But this, in fact, has not been the government’s goal. For agriculture to stand on its own would require improvements in farm productivity, which naturally results in fewer people employed in the farm sector. This would have weakened the political power of the rural districts that constituted the Liberal Democratic Party’s most important political base during its years in power. Consequently, the government did almost nothing to encourage farm consolidation.
See: http://www.tokyofoundation.org/en/ar...liberalization

International trade policies have as much to do with domestic politics as with economics. The US still assesses tariffs on imported vehicles and spends billions to subsidize its relatively tiny agricultural sector.
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Old 2014-04-07, 12:18   Link #33423
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
By now, 2014, the Yasukuni Shrine issue should be a non-issue. It is symbolic at best. It doesn't do anything to China, Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, or the Philippines. It barely does anything in Japan. It doesn't seem like it should stir up trouble anymore since the Emperor isn't going to go there, and Prime Ministers seem to be a yen a dozen this last decade.
if the visit to the Yasukuni Shrine is so insignificant then why don't the Japanese PM stop going?
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Old 2014-04-07, 13:26   Link #33424
Ithekro
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Family? Friends of family? Honoring those that did die in the service of Japan?

I'm pretty sure there are probably some people the Vietnamese would call criminals on the Vietanam Memorial Wall in Washington, D.C., but no one gets bent about that. Nor any other American cemetary or memorial that I am aware would warrent such negative attention internationally, despite what happened in the wars of the 20th century.
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Old 2014-04-07, 18:32   Link #33425
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
if the visit to the Yasukuni Shrine is so insignificant then why don't the Japanese PM stop going?
Because he wants to?

Because he didn't break any laws?

Because China doesn't get to decide which Japanese shrine a Japanese man can or cannot go to?
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Old 2014-04-07, 19:19   Link #33426
maplehurry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post

Because China doesn't get to decide which Japanese shrine a Japanese man can or cannot go to?
Including US, when Biden tried to persuade Abe not to go and expressed disappointment afterward when Abe did.

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Which Japanese leader would China be "happy" with, for that matter? Because if you are going to make a claim like that, you had to be able to offer an alternative.
There was indeed a time when China and Japan's relationship was good, until PRC decided that anti-Japan propaganda's an effective tool to control the mass. (after Tianmen)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Family? Friends of family? Honoring those that did die in the service of Japan?

I'm pretty sure there are probably some people the Vietnamese would call criminals on the Vietanam Memorial Wall in Washington, D.C., but no one gets bent about that.
They aint infamous enough lol. The most famous one (Calley) had made an apology saying how he had nightmare every night.

(Though one can easily make the point that Japan has apologized regularly each year.)

Last edited by maplehurry; 2014-04-07 at 20:01.
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Old 2014-04-07, 19:45   Link #33427
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil View Post
Ha, I knew this argument will come up since it is the most obvious one. The thing is, I thought this whole topic came up because the Chinese refused to invite the Japanese to party, and people were bashing China for that. Now we can't have a say of whom we invite? We are not free men?
Now that is a pathetic argument. It is an international event and you are supposed to invite everyone other than the guy who massacres his own people. Are you all devoid of graciousness?

Even the African Union, in which some member regularly engage in tribal genocides to oust their opponents, still meet together. So why is China, a big country, acting like a whiny highschool old money bitch?

Quote:
As for being "free" part, come on, we are not dumb juveniles shouting "I am going to do whatever I want!" Sure, one is free to do things, at the same time, he must be ready to take the responsibilities and face the consequences. Abe knew fully well that the visit would irreversibly put the relation in a deep freezing state, if not worse. That is a simple fact.
The fact you quoted was true with regards to human behaviour, and that means that China has the right to whine about other people's duty to their ancestors?

If the population is as smart as they are, it should be a fact too that the government is doing it to score points at home, with the economy softening, they need a distraction from all the domestic issues at hand.

Quote:
Seriously, many of these political arguments are more about which sides you are on. Causes and principles are twisted all the time. I am not surprised by any of it. But whatever, some times I can't resist the temptation to "correct" the "ignorant", fully knowing how futile it is.
Ad hominem and hypocrisy in a single paragraph. You have admitted that causes and principles get twisted all the time in politics, yet you insist that you are "correcting the ignorant" when people don't agree with you. Why are you taking a side when your statement should be neutral?

The CCP should just stop playing the victim card, or grow thicker skin.
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Old 2014-04-07, 20:41   Link #33428
KiraYamatoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplehurry View Post
Including US, when Biden tried to persuade Abe not to go and expressed disappointment afterward when Abe did.
Well, one can say and rightfully so that Biden knows jack about other cultures. As much as I supported Obama, I think the administration needs a firmer approach in foreign policy instead of bending over further themselves the way they have been. That's my opinion anyway.

Quote:
There was indeed a time when China and Japan's relationship was good, until PRC decided that anti-Japan propaganda's an effective tool to control the mass. (after Tianmen)
Well, that's their problem. By taking enough rope given, expect to hang with it and that hanging time is what Japan decided to execute after saying enough is enough. Meanwhile, I have yet to see how a fully blown anti-China campaign in Japan would look like since I've never seen one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
The CCP should just stop playing the victim card, or grow thicker skin.
Considering how they look even more cuntish than the African nations you slipped a word about, pigs will fly long before that happens.
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Old 2014-04-07, 23:02   Link #33429
Nerroth
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The federalist Québec Liberal Party has swept to power in the 2014 provincial election in la belle Province, sweeping the sovereigntist Parti Québécois from power (and ousting the now-former premier, Pauline Marois, from her own seat).

The new premier-elect is Philippe Couillard, and he will have a solid mandate to govern for the next four years. With the PQ out of power, talk about a third referendum aimed at making Québec independent from Canada (which arguably served as a poisoned chalice for Marois' election campaign) will be off the table for the time being.

On a federal level, the next election to the Canadian House of Commons should take place in 2015.
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Old 2014-04-07, 23:41   Link #33430
KiraYamatoFan
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Yeah! Good riddance with Pauline Marois. I'm happy that the majority showed that no one wants of that same old bigotry and separatist crap from Parti Québécois.

SACKED IN THE MORNING! YOU'RE GETTING SACKED IN THE MORNING!!
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Old 2014-04-08, 04:01   Link #33431
Irenicus
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Slightly happy for you guys up there. It's high time Quebecois separatism is dead. Anglo-French dualism is decades past. Canada is a rainbow country now with a lot more brown people around and, I fear, some of PQ's base are not the most welcoming of their fellow citizens.

Now can you do something about that little piece of #@%$ you call your prime minister?
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Old 2014-04-08, 05:14   Link #33432
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
Slightly happy for you guys up there. It's high time Quebecois separatism is dead. Anglo-French dualism is decades past. Canada is a rainbow country now with a lot more brown people around and, I fear, some of PQ's base are not the most welcoming of their fellow citizens.
I have to agree on you on this, given the events of this past few months.

As much as I have Pauline Marois, I would had preferred her to stay at the top of her party; she's one of the worse chief they ever had and given and the less influence the PQ have the best, her at the PQ would had been bad for the party but good for the province.

Sadly, there's little much we can do against '' that little piece of #@%$ you call your prime minister'' he managed to elect only a handful of deputy in this province. If you want Harper out, it would require a pan-Canadian effort, not a single province will be enough for that.
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Old 2014-04-08, 06:39   Link #33433
maplehurry
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The alternative would be Justin Trudeau. More fun time.
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Old 2014-04-08, 07:20   Link #33434
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplehurry View Post
The alternative would be Justin Trudeau. More fun time.
I would prefer to have him than Harper as PM anytime but some might see his young age as a bad thing and his name is kind of a double edge sword: many do still have a good opinion about his father but others, especially in the AlSaMa province, do hate him.
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Old 2014-04-08, 08:11   Link #33435
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
Slightly happy for you guys up there. It's high time Quebecois separatism is dead. Anglo-French dualism is decades past. Canada is a rainbow country now with a lot more brown people around and, I fear, some of PQ's base are not the most welcoming of their fellow citizens.

Now can you do something about that little piece of #@%$ you call your prime minister?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
I would prefer to have him than Harper as PM anytime but some might see his young age as a bad thing and his name is kind of a double edge sword: many do still have a good opinion about his father but others, especially in the AlSaMa province, do hate him.
I think you Canucks should just let US annex you and have John McCain as your PM.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2014-04-08, 08:58   Link #33436
ganbaru
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I think you Canucks should just let US annex you and have John McCain as your PM.
McCain is less crazy than Harper and he wouldn't try to focus on our ''glorious'' war past or our previous status as a british colony.
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Old 2014-04-08, 13:39   Link #33437
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
McCain is less crazy than Harper and he wouldn't try to focus on our ''glorious'' war past or our previous status as a british colony.
I notice that the "Fight for Canada" video that first appeared on the official Canadian War of 1812 site has been remarkably shortened from its original length of nearly four minutes down to one. Most of the more inflammatory segments about how Canada repelled the US invasion are not longer included. I looked on the official YouTube site and notice that one video has been deleted. I wonder which one that was....
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Old 2014-04-08, 22:42   Link #33438
aldw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Because he wants to?

Because he didn't break any laws?

Because China doesn't get to decide which Japanese shrine a Japanese man can or cannot go to?
By that logic there should be no problem of Angela Merkel going to Bitburg to visit the graves of the SS troopers buried there either?

Quote:
Well, that's their problem. By taking enough rope given, expect to hang with it and that hanging time is what Japan decided to execute after saying enough is enough. Meanwhile, I have yet to see how a fully blown anti-China campaign in Japan would look like since I've never seen one.
The only reason why it's being called bad for China (or South Korea for that matter) for complaining about these Yasukuni visits is the lack of political value of the civilians the Japanese killed compared to the East Asian geopolitical order that the US created postwar and wants to maintain at all costs. Of course the anti-China haters don't consider the civilians killed as mattering at all w/ the PRC government being "evil Commies" et al, but that par for the course in geopolitics.

Putin's playbook may yet come in handy...
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Old 2014-04-09, 01:04   Link #33439
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aldw View Post
By that logic there should be no problem of Angela Merkel going to Bitburg to visit the graves of the SS troopers buried there either?
No, simply because causation does not imply correalation. A soldier follows orders becuase under military law he does not have the right to question it. The executor, namely the commander in chief, is the one to be held responsible.

How right is it to vilify someone who carries out his duty in his line?

Quote:
The only reason why it's being called bad for China (or South Korea for that matter) for complaining about these Yasukuni visits is the lack of political value of the civilians the Japanese killed compared to the East Asian geopolitical order that the US created postwar and wants to maintain at all costs. Of course the anti-China haters don't consider the civilians killed as mattering at all w/ the PRC government being "evil Commies" et al, but that par for the course in geopolitics.

Putin's playbook may yet come in handy...
What of those who died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

The death of people, be it a soldier or civilian, is a statistic, that is as much value as it has on paper. The part about human rights and ethics is spun out of the numbers. We can't bring the dead back to life, so it is long due to bury the hatchet so it is not used to indiscriminately hack people to death in a gory fashion again.

Everything else is just scoring political points at home. Raising these issues won't solve the smog in Beijing or the income divide, but it helps to take minds off those issues.

Speaking of which, China did a pretty good job of playing the victim card. It is like a big fat bully insisting that the one he is being bullied, then bringing up about how his "bullies" father was such a criminal - Yang Guo is not Yang Kang.The previous generation of CCP did a good job in raising their current crop of leaders to be whiny little bitches.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2014-04-09, 05:53   Link #33440
maplehurry
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You know... this reminds me of an old debate in my university's online forum about whether it's ok to build a mosque near ground zero. It was a heated debate with many people for both sides and the debates go on for a very long time until the moderators came in and closed it.

It really seems to me it's one of those issues that's sorta subjective yet so sensitive that people can't just "tolerate" the other side to just agree to disagree.
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