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Old 2014-04-30, 10:32   Link #33581
MrTerrorist
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Speaking of laws.....

Brunei introduces tough Islamic penal code
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Old 2014-04-30, 11:30   Link #33582
kyp275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
So anyone going to deathrow deserves to suffer in their last moments?
What happens if that person was an innocent who was wrongly convicted?
Does that person deserves to die a horrible death even though he didn't do it?
Murderers deserves what they get, in my book all the way up to what they inflicted on their victim. A heart attack or whatever hardly constitutes a “horrible death”, this idea that murderers can only be executed if their death is completely painless is one that I completely disagree with.

The whole problem with the wrongly-convicted is another issue entirely with the judicial system, not the technical side of how executions are carried out.

Quote:
The problem with the justice system is it's suppose to protect the innocent and punish the guilty but instead the innocent sometime gets punished for being in the wrong place at the wrong time or corruption while the guilty gets away scott free using connections or loop holes in the law.
No system is perfect, and as long as humans aren’t perfect, I doubt there will be one that is. Are you saying that until it is perfected with no flaws no one should be punished? The system needs to be improved, but that hardly means that it's broken.

Quote:
Even if we uses harsh punishments for terrible criminals, are those actions justified or we not so different with the criminals?
Please explain to me how executing a criminal is no different from said criminal raping/killing innocent people for his own gain/pleasure?

This is why I despise that line of reasoning, by that logic the likes of Hitler/Stalin/Bin Laden/insert mass/serial murderers can never be killed, else we’d just be like them

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Originally Posted by Fireminer View Post
Can we just use a rifle and one bullet?
Fine by me, it’d be cheaper.
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Old 2014-04-30, 11:37   Link #33583
Zakoo
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I don't want to enter the debate, it must have been done, like what, dozens of time on this board and the mods will one day go crazy about it.
But since we finally have a good publication with a scientifical methodology. Irony of the calendar, it was published one day before the failures.

How much sentenced to death are actually innocent?

Nice numbers.
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Old 2014-04-30, 12:09   Link #33584
MrTerrorist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Please explain to me how executing a criminal is no different from said criminal raping/killing innocent people for his own gain/pleasure?

This is why I despise that line of reasoning, by that logic the likes of Hitler/Stalin/Bin Laden/insert mass/serial murderers can never be killed, else we’d just be like them
Corruption of Morality. Killing one criminal seems fine but what happens when you do it many times that you get used to it to the point you enjoy the power of taking another person's life and don't feel guilty about it because your right and everyone else who disagree is wrong and deserves to die.

The reason we don't kill indiscriminately because we're better than that. Humans may do terrible things to each other but at the same time we can do great things as well. If we inspired to help each other to be better people, the next generation will follow our example.

While the justice system is not perfect, at least it tries to help the wrongly convicted and innocent and ensure the guilty may never harm society or try to help them redeem themselves to be a better person.



Anyway,, let's stop talking about this and talk something else.


Government backs UK launch site plan for space tourism
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Old 2014-04-30, 13:14   Link #33585
SaintessHeart
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Here is a simpler reasoning :

The total nominal GDP of the world is around $70 trillion, and there are around 7 billion people in this world.

Each person is therefore estimated to be worth only $10,000. If you can foot that amount, it is fair that you can take a life, simply because you can afford to do so. Also, it is IMPRUDENT to keep a person in prison if it costs more than $10,000 to rehabiliate him (including feeding him and taking care of his personal needs too)

All hail corporatism!
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Old 2014-04-30, 13:24   Link #33586
KiraYamatoFan
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Originally Posted by JokerD View Post
Hanging, then you can donate the organs as well
I agree with this idea. There's an increasing need for healthy organs out there.
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Old 2014-04-30, 21:27   Link #33587
maplehurry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Murderers deserves what they get, in my book all the way up to what they inflicted on their victim. A heart attack or whatever hardly constitutes a “horrible death”, this idea that murderers can only be executed if their death is completely painless is one that I completely disagree with.
They do deserve what they get, in general. It's just that many believe in the ideal that the justice system should be above eye-for-an-eye revenge.

*look at Jesus*
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Old 2014-04-30, 21:58   Link #33588
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
I agree with this idea. There's an increasing need for healthy organs out there.
There's at least two issue with this; the executed might not be healthy and the probability than we start giving the death penalty for crime less and less serious.
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Old 2014-05-01, 00:18   Link #33589
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
There's at least two issue with this; the executed might not be healthy and the probability than we start giving the death penalty for crime less and less serious.
There is also consent; officially even the worst criminals don't lose the right to their own organs. So it is rather legally risky to have organs from people who haven't gave consent.

I doubt death penalties would increase from it. There is no real way to streamline what is made entirely of red tape. Increasing death penalties only happen if the public actually demand it, and they rarely do.
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Old 2014-05-01, 00:28   Link #33590
Fireminer
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If a dog bite you, would you bite it?

Remember Nietzsche's words. These criminals, yes, they are harmful to society. But do you willing to get your hand dirtied for them? Have mercy with the executioner's sanity, will you.

And don't joke with me about the whole "eye for an eye". Death, for example, to an inmate with AIDS, could be a blessing. The whole matter of execution is not for punishment - living forever in jail maybe even worse. It's a parade to scare people: "This is what you get when crossing the line."
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Old 2014-05-01, 00:33   Link #33591
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
There is also consent; officially even the worst criminals don't lose the right to their own organs. So it is rather legally risky to have organs from people who haven't gave consent.
Not true in where I live.

You automatically lose rights to your organs should you become a permanent resident or citizen.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2014-05-01, 01:01   Link #33592
kyp275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireminer View Post
If a dog bite you, would you bite it?
No, but depending on the breed, I may shoot it.

Quote:
Remember Nietzsche's words. These criminals, yes, they are harmful to society. But do you willing to get your hand dirtied for them? Have mercy with the executioner's sanity, will you.
I obviously didn't get the memo that says Nietzsche's words are considered some sort of universal truths. Some people forfeited their right to life by virtue of the crimes they committed, I have no qualm about them losing theirs in turn.

Quote:
And don't joke with me about the whole "eye for an eye". Death, for example, to an inmate with AIDS, could be a blessing. The whole matter of execution is not for punishment - living forever in jail maybe even worse. It's a parade to scare people: "This is what you get when crossing the line."
Nevermind the narrow and ultimately irrelevancy of your scenario, you realize that while AIDS is incurable, it is very much a manageable disease today right? one that the taxpayer will have pay the treatment for?

Life sentence may or may not be preferable to a criminal, it's all subjective. Some can't take it, but most would take that over death in a heartbeat. It is deterrent, punishment and justice all rolled into one, just like any other sentences.
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Old 2014-05-01, 01:22   Link #33593
Fireminer
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Fine! So here is my point: If you kill someone by law, you do it fast. No enjoyment.

And please, don't increase the death penalty. Just look at Egypt and their kangaroo court. The American did it with Lynch law; the Russian, Chinese and even we did it during the land revolution. Now, it's the Egyptian.

To put it simply, the more brutal the menthod is, the more "entertaining" and emotion-related the punishment would be.
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Old 2014-05-01, 01:24   Link #33594
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireminer View Post
Fine! So here is my point: If you kill someone by law, you do it fast. No enjoyment.

And please, don't increase the death penalty. Just look at Egypt and their kangaroo court. The American did it with Lynch law; the Russian, Chinese and even we did it during the land revolution. Now, it's the Egyptian.

To put it simply, the more brutal the menthod is, the more "entertaining" and emotion-related the punishment would be.
How do you even categorise a method as brutal.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2014-05-01, 01:41   Link #33595
killer3000ad
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Hundreds of abducted Nigerian school girls sold off as brides
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Old 2014-05-01, 01:57   Link #33596
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Not true in where I live.

You automatically lose rights to your organs should you become a permanent resident or citizen.
All, yes. Singapore. As I once said before, sometimes I wonder what kind of miracle allowed the country to end up the way it is. Simultaneously prosperous and yet with draconian laws. I wonder if it is what it is like living in a space colony; people try their best to get along with their government because they have so little real estate to stand on.
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Old 2014-05-01, 03:50   Link #33597
Fireminer
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They move to another space colony. Or the moon, mars, jupiter,...

And what is brutal? Well, think about something that make you wish you'd rather die than suffered.
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Old 2014-05-01, 04:56   Link #33598
JokerD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
All, yes. Singapore. As I once said before, sometimes I wonder what kind of miracle allowed the country to end up the way it is. Simultaneously prosperous and yet with draconian laws. I wonder if it is what it is like living in a space colony; people try their best to get along with their government because they have so little real estate to stand on.
The wants/needs of a business (money) and human being is different. Democracy and freedom does not equate to wealth and vice versa.
In fact, businesses value stability, no matter what the foundation of that stability is made of.
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Old 2014-05-01, 05:49   Link #33599
Anh_Minh
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Actually, Lipset's Law states there's a positive correlation between income and democratization.

But researching it, I found quite a few paper calling bullshit on that, so who knows?
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Old 2014-05-01, 06:08   Link #33600
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Actually, Lipset's Law states there's a positive correlation between income and democratization.

But researching it, I found quite a few paper calling bullshit on that, so who knows?
Singapore is special. The nation works, but in theory it really shouldn't. And other similar nation building attempts generally end in collapse and change in the government system or abject poverty.
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