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Old 2009-08-07, 14:05   Link #3501
Vexx
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Quote:
comprehensive research ... is lacking ... estimated ... at risk of becoming victims of commercial sexual exploitation.
Key phrase there (bolded by me) ... quite different than "child prostitutes" being actively engaged in such. Also the use of the word "youth" which often means anyone under 25 in these sorts of exercises.

Not saying there isn't a real problem -- just noting a LOT of arm-waving. Virtually all your links involve extensive arm-waving as well though some actually admit the lack of data. Many fail to even define what they mean by "children". Is a 19 year old a child? A 23yr old? I've seen 25 year olds labeled as "children" in some stats for the purposes of inflating numbers.

Follow the numbers quoted in all the links to their source and watch the substance of the numbers vanish in a haze of arm-waving and sometimes sourceless assertions. From the UN link:
Quote:
* There are no statistics available on the numbers of children involved in prostitution in the United States. (ECPAT, CSEC Database, http://www.ecpat.net/eng/ecpat_inter...base/index.asp)
It would really help if the emotional strings arm-waving were put aside and the specific real problems hit with a spotlight. My "bullshit" detector ("think of the children!") just says a lot of grants and budgets depend on this appearing to affect a larger population than it actually does (in the US). The international sex trafficking problem (involving people both underage and adult), OTOH, has real meat to the statistics involving actual raids, captures, and arrests

Last edited by Vexx; 2009-08-07 at 14:32.
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Old 2009-08-07, 18:30   Link #3502
Shadow Kira01
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Reports: Arrest warrant for missing Japan actress

Quote:
TOKYO (AP) -- Japanese police issued an arrest warrant for missing actress Noriko Sakai for drug possession, while her 10 year-old son was found safe in Tokyo, according to media reports Friday.

Sakai has been missing since her husband was arrested earlier this week for alleged drug possession, police said Thursday.
Obama approval rating sinks to 50 percent: poll

Quote:
"The president is right on the magic 50-percent threshold in public approval because of bad grades on the economy and even worse grades on health care," said Peter Brown, assistant director of Quinnipiac's Polling Institute.
It seems that Obama had been taking on too many controversial and difficult issues yet in the end, he solves nothing. Thus, the new American president of hope now has a similar approval rate as the old Bush Administration. I'd say Obama's capability deserves a "D".

Obama unlikely to visit A-bombed cities in Nov.

Quote:
A visit to Hiroshima and Nagasaki has become increasingly unlikely because of concern that such a visit would ignite controversy over historical perceptions of Japan's war in China and World War II and the significance of the U.S. atomic bombing of the two cities, and that this would generate opposition in the United States.
So, that strong speech Obama gave in April was just another empty election promise sort of thing. No wonder why his approval ratings had plummeted so low.
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Last edited by Shadow Kira01; 2009-08-07 at 18:30. Reason: fixed syntax error.
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Old 2009-08-07, 18:58   Link #3503
0utf0xZer0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingle View Post
It only takes 100 nuclear missiles to take care of the Islamist threat. I wonder why politics seem to always get in the way and force armies to fight long, low-intensity conflicts when they clearly aren't built for one.

20,000,000 hostile deaths > 4000 friendly deaths.
Politics gets in the way because it treats suggestions like that with exactly the sort of credibility the suggestions deserve.

Remember to wish India a happy nuclear winter while you try and figure out how to deal with the the Islamists who have already infiltrated your country. You know, the ones that actually are a pressing security threat.

(Israel too actually. But hey, look at the bright side: Intel's Israeli labs would get a chance to learn what it's like to work with silicon made from radioactive sand! Wouldn't a radioactive Core i7 be the l33test thing ever? You could install a readout for a geiger counter in a 5.25 bay.)
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Old 2009-08-07, 20:38   Link #3504
Thingle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
Politics gets in the way because it treats suggestions like that with exactly the sort of credibility the suggestions deserve.
Preferring to see one's own troops dead and risking defeat/ domestic unrest over the issue by "caring about collaterals" isn't a more credible alternative.

The "Vietnam/Afghanistan scenario" doesn't apply. No power supports the Islamists. Iran? lol. Anyway, there's nothing in Afganistan so it isn't like carpet bombing will destroy any significant infrastructure. It would actually be better because it will pulverize those mountain hideouts. Add building of a Israel-style barrier on the Pakistani border.

Like the colonel from that movie about Gulf war snipers said, "College football" while jets bomb the target.

Edit:
Bombing IS effective
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baitullah_Mehsud

Last edited by Thingle; 2009-08-07 at 20:59.
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Old 2009-08-07, 20:48   Link #3505
Thingle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oompa loompa View Post
Absolutely, just wipe the Middle East, Afghanistan and Pakistan right off the map! Might as well get rid of North Korea while we're at it, I mean they can't get too cocky because they can make a few nukes now .
Actually I wonder why countries spend billions on "military expenses" and do nothing with it. It's like buying a Mercedes and not driving it or training MMA and not actually fighting.

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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I love his certainty that when the bombs fall, he won't be under one of them...
Thank you. I have a reason to be certain.
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Old 2009-08-07, 21:17   Link #3506
0utf0xZer0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingle View Post
The "Vietnam/Afghanistan scenario" doesn't apply. No power supports the Islamists. Iran? lol. Anyway, there's nothing in Afganistan so it isn't like carpet bombing will destroy any significant infrastructure. It would actually be better because it will pulverize those mountain hideouts. Add building of a Israel-style barrier on the Pakistani border.
Ah thank you, I forgot all Islamist hang out in Afghani caves.

No wait... if that's all they did nobody would give a crap. Anyway, I'm sure the other countries in the area will appreciate the radioactivity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingle View Post
Like the colonel from that movie about Gulf war snipers said, "College football" while jets bomb the target.
You're probably thinking of Jarhead. My friend rented that from Rogers Video once... content label said "approximately 382" somewhere in the profanity descriptor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingle View Post
Actually I wonder why countries spend billions on "military expenses" and do nothing with it. It's like buying a Mercedes and not driving it or training MMA and not actually fighting.
They do it because military power is relative and they want to have enough of it to deter anyone else from using theirs. Extremely basic principle of the defensive-realist school of International Relations, which seems to be pretty dominant among world leaders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingle View Post
Preferring to see one's own troops dead and risking defeat/ domestic unrest over the issue by "caring about collaterals" isn't a more credible alternative.
At least the domestic unrest is in their country, not mine.

Last edited by 0utf0xZer0; 2009-08-08 at 01:58.
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Old 2009-08-07, 21:48   Link #3507
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Kira01 View Post
So, that strong speech Obama gave in April was just another empty election promise sort of thing. No wonder why his approval ratings had plummeted so low.
What are you talking about? Obama is trying to reform the entire healthcare system. That's huge, and he's pissing off a lot of people (particularly those who are making tons of money off of the way things are now - and the short-sighted people who buy their garbage propaganda). You think his approval ratings won't take at least a bit of a beating over that fight?

Then of course there's the fact that the recession is, you know, still ongoing. Unless Obama could snap his fingers and make things better tomorrow, his approval ratings would suffer over that regardless. Actually, his approval ratings would still dip a bit if he could do that, because people would be whining that Obama should have snapped those magic fingers a few months - weeks - minutes - seconds earlier than he did.

Not to come off as an Obama fanboy, but I'm displeased with commentary and posts like yours. The guy has been in office for a little over half a year, and he's dealing with some big-time issues. You're giving him a "D" - for what? Things seem to be stabilizing, and he's laying the groundwork for some enhancements to society. A "D" would be more fitting for a situation where things would be continually getting worse, I'd say. Out of curiosity, what would it take to get an "A" out of you? Jesus rises again and declares the United States a great place, thanks to Obama?
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Old 2009-08-07, 21:59   Link #3508
0utf0xZer0
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Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Out of curiosity, what would it take to get an "A" out of you? Jesus rises again and declares the United States a great place, thanks to Obama?
No, that would be at least an S class grade.

(Sorry, bad Nanoha joke...)
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Old 2009-08-07, 22:27   Link #3509
Irenicus
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Don't feed the troll, guys. It's not like we haven't gone through his extremist views before. Genocide slaughter yadda yadda. Whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Out of curiosity, what would it take to get an "A" out of you? Jesus rises again and declares the United States a great place, thanks to Obama?
That's an F (U) from the Atheist crowd!



Meanwhile, in related news involving the magicks of the Messiah's Administration, BBC claims that...

Quote:
US loses fewer jobs than expected

The US economy lost 247,000 jobs in July, far fewer than analysts had expected, official figures show.

With fewer workers being laid off, the unemployment rate fell to 9.4%, down from 9.5% in the previous month, the first drop since April 2008.

The unexpected drop is likely to fuel hopes that an economic recovery is gaining ground.

US President Barack Obama said the jobless numbers showed that "the worst [of the recession] may be behind us".

"[But] we have a lot further to go. As far as I'm concerned, we will not have a true recovery until we stop losing jobs," he added, echoing comments made last week.

Since the recession began in December 2007, about 6.7 million jobs have been lost, the Department of Labour said.
The president also stressed that economic meltdown had been avoided.

"We are losing jobs at less than half the rate we were when I took office. We have pulled the financial system back from the brink.

"While we have rescued our economy from catastrophe, we have also begun to build a new foundation for growth."

Analysts had expected non-farm payrolls to drop by 320,000 in July and the unemployment rate to rise to 9.6%.
Source.

Not sure how much is up to Obama and how much is up to the natural business cycle, the article only vaguely says "analysts" (who?) attribute it (how?) to the stimulus package (hmm); but since we're going to blame everything on The One anyway, let's put all the good with the bad. Fairer that way I think.
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Old 2009-08-08, 03:21   Link #3510
solomon
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Honestly, I think it's really silly to try and give all these arbitrary ratings of a president. MAYBE pundits can do it and I am not saying that average joe blow is "stupid" by any means, but given the labyrinth intricacies of government action (not to mention how it constantly changes), I have trouble believing average guys "rating of the president'. In short, too subjective.

If people can't do it for their senator (whom many constituents FREQUENTLY overlook and underrate) how can you for the prez?

It's simple, it's a "What has he done for me" kind of angle. This isn't bad by any means, it's inevitable in such a multipolar, varied society. But it still is skewed.

Polls are down cause people are frazzled due to slow VERY slow recession recovery and other economic malaise. Always happens.

I will be surprised if major health care reform is passed that has a radical change in the status quo. Americans are too afraid of anything that looks like "socialism" whatever that may be. Personally, I think Vexx has pointed out the irony in the fear of "government bureaucrat healthcare" when "insurance bureaucrat healthcare" seems just as stupid.

Once the recession pulls away, I wonder if there will be as much hooting and hollering, it seems to come in cycles. Like how no one is hollering about immigration reform any more.
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Old 2009-08-08, 03:26   Link #3511
LynnieS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Not to come off as an Obama fanboy, but I'm displeased with commentary and posts like yours. The guy has been in office for a little over half a year, and he's dealing with some big-time issues. You're giving him a "D" - for what? Things seem to be stabilizing, and he's laying the groundwork for some enhancements to society. A "D" would be more fitting for a situation where things would be continually getting worse, I'd say. Out of curiosity, what would it take to get an "A" out of you? Jesus rises again and declares the United States a great place, thanks to Obama?
Actually and personally, if we are to talk of ratings, I would rate Barack Obama's administration, so far, as a C at best and a D on average also. Sorry...

Even though he has only been in power for less a year. He still has troops stationed in places and an economy in the doldrums. Even with a strong charisma and popularity, taking on an ingrained establishment like healthcare right now is very risky, IMHO; if he can do it, he would go down in history as one of the better presidents, though, but my gut feeling is he'll fail in all but the small bits. Healthcare isn't like Social Security (the proverbial third rail of American politics), but it has its strong players also. Obama will need to dance really well to make things happen, IMHO, and that'll be hard to do with other problems on his plate. Real estate (personal and commercial) looks bad as well.

Taking on too much and not consolidating your gains before doing something new is risky and prone to backfiring. Everything together is looking like a shotgun approach, and unless you have strong and loyal lieutenants, can be risky.

Spoiler for To save space:
This whole talk might belong more in the Economic Crisis thread, though...
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Old 2009-08-08, 03:29   Link #3512
james0246
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@solomon: Honestly, much of the current "popularity" polls are a little unimportant...right now at least. Besides some of the polls detailing what Americans think are the msot important issues (and other issue based polls), these popularity polls will not actually matter until 2010 and then, most importantly, in the 2012 race. Since the Recovery Package/Stimulus Bill is really supposed to take effect in 2010 and finish by 2012 (therebouts), people's opinion of Obama, and their local governors/representatives/senators, will undoubtedly increase in those years quite a bit. Consequently, the current Republican strategy is to try and cut off as much of the Independent support as they can early on, and hope none of them decide to go back in the years to come (after the economy starts chugging along again).

@LynnieS: I partially agree. I would also rate Obama as about a C (average) currently, but my rating is mostly due to the fact that he is not properly handling the discussion/agenda he wishes to enact, instead letting himself be side-tracked by pointless issues and not fully explaining what he wants or why what he wants can be "good" (not to say that everything in his agenda is "good") for the country/people. That being said, even if he could take full command over the discussion, I would still only rate him a B- to a B, considering that several of his policies are still fairly weak.
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Old 2009-08-08, 03:38   Link #3513
LynnieS
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^ Certainly the upcoming elections should prove interesting. Depending on how that looks like beforehand, poll-wise, I see a certain amount of jockeying and "testing the waters" announcements coming out of various agencies and PR offices. If things look particularly bad, I would not be surprised to see people who are presently in Obama's camp disagree and go against him publicly, which can weaken him and his work further, which would be too bad.
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Old 2009-08-08, 03:56   Link #3514
james0246
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^Agreed. 2010 will be pivotal to understanding the next presidential election, and if the Republicans can find a way to repeat their performance from 1994 (which is what they are trying to do now by stirring up the masses), then Obama will become something of a lame duck in 2011 with the odds for a re-election evening out significantly (older members will undoubtedly recall that Bob Dole was the front runner of the 1996 election up until just a month or so prior to the actual election) with whomever runs against him.
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Old 2009-08-08, 05:14   Link #3515
Thingle
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This recession took years to make, naturally it won't take weeks to fix it. Otherwise, you'll be like that fat person who tried to get rid of it all in 3 months and failed.
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Old 2009-08-08, 06:09   Link #3516
solomon
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
^Agreed. 2010 will be pivotal to understanding the next presidential election, and if the Republicans can find a way to repeat their performance from 1994 (which is what they are trying to do now by stirring up the masses), then Obama will become something of a lame duck in 2011 with the odds for a re-election evening out significantly (older members will undoubtedly recall that Bob Dole was the front runner of the 1996 election up until just a month or so prior to the actual election) with whomever runs against him.
Meh, I am not sure. Wasn't the Repubican Revolution of 1994 a remnant of Reagan-Culture influence. Like the Silent Majority really trying to continue the steering of a conservative country? The demos have changed, even if the old heads are the ones who really are the most regular voters.

Barring any HUGE slipups vis a vis the Economic Recovery or Health Care Reform, I fail to see strong coat tail type election waves of Republicans. Particularly in those big Northeast and Midwest suburbs, 's not the early 80s any more and demos have moderated. Local Elections will be very very local in focus, ie those that lean whatever way will go in the most logical direction as to who is most popular on the ground.
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Old 2009-08-08, 06:15   Link #3517
solomon
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
@solomon: Honestly, much of the current "popularity" polls are a little unimportant...right now at least. Besides some of the polls detailing what Americans think are the msot important issues (and other issue based polls), these popularity polls will not actually matter until 2010 and then, most importantly, in the 2012 race. Since the Recovery Package/Stimulus Bill is really supposed to take effect in 2010 and finish by 2012 (therebouts), people's opinion of Obama, and their local governors/representatives/senators, will undoubtedly increase in those years quite a bit. Consequently, the current Republican strategy is to try and cut off as much of the Independent support as they can early on, and hope none of them decide to go back in the years to come (after the economy starts chugging along again).

@LynnieS: I partially agree. I would also rate Obama as about a C (average) currently, but my rating is mostly due to the fact that he is not properly handling the discussion/agenda he wishes to enact, instead letting himself be side-tracked by pointless issues and not fully explaining what he wants or why what he wants can be "good" (not to say that everything in his agenda is "good") for the country/people. That being said, even if he could take full command over the discussion, I would still only rate him a B- to a B, considering that several of his policies are still fairly weak.
The act isn't supposed to take action till NEXT year??! Damn, could have fooled me with all the hype. The most high profile result of that is public works programs, primarliy relating around infrastructure. There would have been more visible action (IMHO) if the application process wasn't so cumbersome and states actually managed their previous tax/savings policies effectively, so a good chunk of the stimulus cash WOULDN'T have been eaten up by paying off state debt.

I guess you can blame the prez for not making drastic enough action, but states have a big share of fault mismanaging their budgets which helped lead into this pickle (Michigan, Penn and Cali are particular offenders)
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Old 2009-08-08, 08:54   Link #3518
SeedFreedom
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Im actually a bit happy that his popularity is slipping slightly. The democrats are now stronger than they have been in a very long while. If there was ever a time to try some Liberal views and show that they could work, now is the only time to do it and afford a short term hit to popularity.
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Old 2009-08-08, 09:25   Link #3519
iLney
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And hopefully it doesn't take 10 years+ to work. Who knows, as much as I detest liberal policies, I would care less. It's much more efficient to try getting as much as possible out of it and if things go bad, I can always move to another place
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Old 2009-08-08, 12:03   Link #3520
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
That's an F (U) from the Atheist crowd!

Hey, I'd think it'd get massive ratings from the athiests, because it'd finally put to rest the debates about religion (including its fallacies). But saying Obama would get an "A" for raising Jesus was a bit presumptuous - most people would probably only rate that an A-. The point deduction would come because it was only Jesus Christ Himself, rather than God Almighty. If you're going to have high expectations, why settle for anything less, right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnieS View Post
Actually and personally, if we are to talk of ratings, I would rate Barack Obama's administration, so far, as a C at best and a D on average also. Sorry...

Even though he has only been in power for less a year. He still has troops stationed in places and an economy in the doldrums. Even with a strong charisma and popularity, taking on an ingrained establishment like healthcare right now is very risky, IMHO; if he can do it, he would go down in history as one of the better presidents, though, but my gut feeling is he'll fail in all but the small bits. Healthcare isn't like Social Security (the proverbial third rail of American politics), but it has its strong players also. Obama will need to dance really well to make things happen, IMHO, and that'll be hard to do with other problems on his plate. Real estate (personal and commercial) looks bad as well.

Taking on too much and not consolidating your gains before doing something new is risky and prone to backfiring. Everything together is looking like a shotgun approach, and unless you have strong and loyal lieutenants, can be risky.
That's a fair evaluation. On the whole, he's been advancing the agendas that he had promised. He alone can't fix everything or make things happen, yet we're already seeing troop reductions in Iraq (finally). It's counter-balanced against increasing the troop size in Afghanistan, but I feel that one is slightly justified.

Furthermore, the military is finally getting smart. Rather than taking the "we killed X bad guys" approach, they've recently adopted a new strategy of not focusing on the kill count, and instead focusing on protecting the civilians and encouraging stability that way. I think that's a much better approach. I'm not sure how much of it can be attributed to Obama (if any), but it did happen under his administration, so he gets partial credit at least.

The healthcare thing seems really badly placed in terms of timing, but who knows? We're in a rebuilding sort of stage now; maybe this is actually the better timing to do it. And even if Obama fails at it, I'd rather that he try than not. Someone has to take that risk and accept a few cuts in their ratings to even suggest it. I don't imagine that his potential failure at implementing it would make it any harder to implement in the future.

Maybe I just have low expectations. I want the president to make peace with other countries and, to but it bluntly, make it his priority to not piss other people off. That's about it. Congress should be doing the rest, not the president. Obama lost some of my approval by very early taking sides in the Gates vs. Crowley race issue, but at least that was a domestic thing, not an international one. I'm still pretty happy with what he's doing. I'd be even happier if he'd stop increasing the debt, but I guess you can't do that without having people complain that you're doing too little. Hell, if the average American doesn't understand the importance of saving in their own life, why should they understand why it's important on the national level?
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