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Old 2009-10-16, 00:03   Link #4361
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autobachs View Post
The article is a bit misleading. He won't sign a license (they actually say this later on) which in effect means he won't marry them. A license is not being denied. It's the same as a catholic priest refusing to marry anyone to a non-catholic or any other personal rational used to decide who's marriage you will or won't precide over. I still don't understand where the outrage is coming from. The guy has some very screwy beliefs, but they aren't required to match some fixed set.
A judge's job is to execute the law of the land (their duty is to the people). Their personal opinions only matter in so far as their logical interpretation of the law. The law in this case requires that the Judge give the couple their wedding license as so long as they have the appropriate materials (Birth Certificates, etc) and have arranged with the court for the license to be signed. The Judge in this case clearly violated his contract and duty as a judge by deliberately ignoring the law in favour of his own personal beliefs. Consequently, he should be reprimanded somehow (especially in light of the fact that he has a history of denying Interracial couples).
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Old 2009-10-16, 06:29   Link #4362
LynnieS
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Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
It's not the same thing. A justice of the peace works for the state. Unlike a priest or minister, who are marrying people in their capacity as a religious leader and can deny marrying people based on their religious beliefs, he is marrying people as a state official and thus doesn't get to choose who he will or will not marry as long as they're a legal couple. He's discriminating against a couple because they happen to be of mixed race, which is outragous for anyone, but doublely so for a state employee. Then he goes on to defend his position by claiming he has black friends that he lets use his bathroom so he isn't racist. He isn't required to like it, he's allowed to hold racist beliefs, but he is also required to marry the couple as is the law. He can believe it's a mistake all he wants, but by not marrying them he's breaking the law.
Interesting bit of news. I wonder if the LA Judicial Committee is cursing the judge's name at the moment. U.S. federal laws, where they conflict with state laws, preempt state laws. Anti-miscegenation laws (where inter-racial marriages were banned) were put in at various times of the U.S.'s history, but by 1967, the last set was repealed due to "Loving vs Virginia". Unfortunately, that just means no state can stop inter-racial marriages from taking place; the opposite of actively pushing is not automatically true by default, and I don't think even DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act) goes in that direction.

If we have a few lawyers or judges around who can clarify, that would be good.

Is the judge a parish judge? This rule seems to indicate so. There look to be some Louisiana laws devoted specifically for this group (and other parish officials) in terms of what they can and cannot do.

Unfortunately (and we'll need someone with access to the legal precedents to verify), I actually cannot find anything via the Louisiana State Legislature's site on discrimination through marriage. There are discrimination laws in place for age, genetics and even sickle-cell anemia, but not about inter-racial marriage. This and this simply define a "marriage" and a "covenant marriage" as being between a man and a woman. I could be using the wrong key word(s), though; some give back pages of hits.

Technically, though, a state-level judge for Louisiana is supposed to unreservedly obey the laws of the state. He is also not supposed to be swayed by others' opinions. If his parish disagrees, then he won't be re-elected for the next term. If the regulators think he's wrong, they can ask the LA Supreme Court to investigate - and remove the judge if necessary - then.

On the whole, this looks to be the start of a PR black eye for the LA judicial system, and even if the lawsuits and letters don't go anywhere, maybe the state legislature will start something.
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Old 2009-10-16, 07:42   Link #4363
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If this marriage would bring religious conflicts between the famlies of the couple, then I would be worried (although I'd still stick to the couple's side and liase with the families). If the woman were muslim, I'd be concerned about her family considering Islam doesn't allow its women to marry men of another religion (men are though so long as it's abrahamic). But to refute a marriage between a black man and white woman (or is it the other way around?) is just stupid. Those kinds of marriages happen all the time all over the world. Obama's mom is white, just to bring an obvious example. So this is just stupid. I agree with the couple filing a discrimination complaint. The judge deserves a boot to the head and a boot out of his position.
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Old 2009-10-16, 07:51   Link #4364
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Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
But to refute a marriage between a black man and white woman (or is it the other way around?) is just stupid. Those kinds of marriages happen all the time all over the world. Obama's mom is white, just to bring an obvious example. So this is just stupid. I agree with the couple filing a discrimination complaint. The judge deserves a boot to the head and a boot out of his position.
Definitely a racist. And about that:

Quote:
"I'm not a racist. I just don't believe in mixing the races that way," Bardwell told the Associated Press on Thursday. "I have piles and piles of black friends. They come to my home, I marry them, they use my bathroom. I treat them just like everyone else."
That's a lie since he makes a difference between white people on one side, and black people on the other side, and think they shall not mix.

Fail.
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Old 2009-10-16, 08:16   Link #4365
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"I'm not racist. I even let them into my house."

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Old 2009-10-16, 08:23   Link #4366
LynnieS
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Originally Posted by Theowne View Post
"I'm not racist. I even let them into my house."
Yes, definitely not the statement one should make to convince others. Pet owners let their pets into the house every so often also.
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Old 2009-10-16, 08:28   Link #4367
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I guess it is time to share something as a racial mongrel.

Though I see that the judge is seen as racist, I do understand how he feels with his judgment.

My father and maternal grandmother are half-half, and they received tremendous discrimination from their individual communities. And I do not know if it is a coincidence or what, but out of the few mix-race friends I have, only one came from an intact family. The judge may have sound wrong, but pragmatically speaking, he may be right. While you guys are hammering the man, or are speaking for the couple, it is best to think of the kids because in a failed relationship, they suffer the most.

For those of you living in Asia, you might know Takeshi Kaneshiro. He is half-Jap, and incidentally, born AFTER WWII where anti-Jap sentiments still run thanks to "corrunism". He is still treated as trash and bullied in school because of his heritage.

Regarding his usage of terms, can anyone name me anything better sounding than "black"? Do we call them Afro? Subhuman? I don't think the word matters as long as the point is brought straight across. Such arguments often make hypocrites out of everyone involved as critics scramble for a "moral high ground" to consolidate their seriously flawed stands.

Mix breed may be the politically correct term for mongrel, but it doesn't hide the fact that they are still treated like scum of the earth. Before we mend the problems of racism and interracial marriage, it is better that we project an image of harmony between races to avoid giving others that benefit of doubt, no matter how small that may be.

P.S I must admit, for a legally trained person, he sucks at arguing because he could have quoted something else other than letting blacks use his bathroom and such, opening up to an attack from the masses when emotions run high. But I give him credit for his frankness.
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Old 2009-10-16, 08:40   Link #4368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Mix breed may be the politically correct term for mongrel, but it doesn't hide the fact that they are still treated like scum of the earth. Before we mend the problems of racism and interracial marriage, it is better that we project an image of harmony between races to avoid giving others that benefit of doubt, no matter how small that may be.
And how do you suggest we project this image of harmony? By staying out each other's way? Better to allow these two to get married and maintain this harmony rather than refute their marriage out of concern for their children. Discriminated they could be because of their background, but they will have loving parents that will protect them from harm. Let me bring Obama's example again. His mother is white. Despite this, he became president, with many black supporters. You bring a good example, but that's a historical example. Times have changed now, and there's more than enough evidence to show this, so I don't need to hear people telling me or anyone that the only arguments they have are based on moral high grounds and nothing else.

What the judge has done now is incite the anger of black people for being discriminating toward them. So much for harmony. There are more than just plenty of mixed marriages all over the world: black and white, chinese and white, and the list goes on. You see it in the UK, and you even see it in Italy. Yet, there isn't any discrimination or hard feelings toward the offspring of these marriages. If so many people can do it, why can't this man do it? If he really does have concern for the children, then that means he's ill-informed and bases his arguments on outdated information. I'm basing my argument on what I see and hear with my own eyes and ears, not just what I believe in.
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Old 2009-10-16, 08:51   Link #4369
LynnieS
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Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
And how do you suggest we project this image of harmony? By staying out each other's way? Better to allow these two to get married and maintain this harmony rather than refute their marriage out of concern for their children. Discriminated they could be because of their background, but they will have loving parents that will protect them from harm. Let me bring Obama's example again. His mother is white. Despite this, he became president, with many black supporters. You bring a good example, but that's a historical example. Times have changed now, and there's more than enough evidence to show this, so I don't need to hear people telling me or anyone that the only arguments they have are based on moral high grounds and nothing else. What the judge has done now is incite the anger of black people for being discriminating toward them. So much for harmony.
A mixed set of parents does not automatically mean any child from the union will turn out badly; at the same time, it does not automatically guarantee the child will turn out well. Barack Obama's racial background did not get him his presidency alone, although it did help a bit in getting backers from both sides of the color divide, IMHO; his message did more. The black Americans are angry? Great. Let them write/call their state and federal legislators, and demand change then - as well as fully support inter-racial couples (and their children) as well.
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Old 2009-10-16, 08:55   Link #4370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnieS View Post
A mixed set of parents does not automatically mean any child from the union will turn out badly; at the same time, it does not automatically guarantee the child will turn out well. Barack Obama's racial background did not get him his presidency alone, although it did help a bit in getting backers from both sides of the color divide, IMHO; his message did more. The black Americans are angry? Great. Let them write/call their state and federal legislators, and demand change then - as well as fully support inter-racial couples (and their children) as well.
I'm not saying that's the only reason he came to power. I'm saying if that the product of mixed races was so looked down upon as was suggested, he wouldn't have been as successful as he is.
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Old 2009-10-16, 09:38   Link #4371
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How "mixed races" are treated depends on what part of the planet you're standing on. They aren't the "scum of the earth" in much of the US, Canada, or Britain, etc. They're so prevalent as to make retrogrades like this judge almost seem quaint.

When my wife (japanese-american) and I (euro-31flavors-american) started dating in the 1970s, we got some negative feedback from odd places. My mother (which surprised the heck out of me because she had raised me "liberally" but turned out to be a closet racist/conservative unlike my dad)... a random aunt that said "they make good wives I hear" when seeing my future wife (obviously 3rd gen Texans make "good wives", duh ). The only other flack we got was the horrified glare of the occasional Japanese businessman when we'd shop in the Houston Galleria back in the 80s. Hasn't been a problem since.

My older son has been pulled over in small towns for "driving while Hispanic" (oh, the officer would make some shit up and scuttle back to their cars embarrassed but it was pretty obvious - especially when his 'white' girlfriend would be asked if she was okay. They'd walk up and speak in Spanish and he'd answer in Japanese and English).

The whole concept of "mixed races" is basically bull**** to anyone who has some science under their belt. Every human being is a "mixed" race - you just have to go back a few generations (more if there's been some regional isolation) and then you have to define race successfully (good luck with that).

There's a bit more substance to worrying about "mixed cultures" or "mixed religions" because there you're having to deal with the intersection of possibly incompatible ideologies (like the Islam-anyone.else example). Nonetheless, the STATE should NOT be interfering in such personal decisions. The STATE's job is only to record the transaction for legal purposes. As an employee of the STATE, the judge failed to do his job.
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Old 2009-10-16, 10:33   Link #4372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
And how do you suggest we project this image of harmony? By staying out each other's way? Better to allow these two to get married and maintain this harmony rather than refute their marriage out of concern for their children. Discriminated they could be because of their background, but they will have loving parents that will protect them from harm. Let me bring Obama's example again. His mother is white. Despite this, he became president, with many black supporters.
i have seen plenty of photos of Obama and His wife and kids and even his half brother in Kenya. But when was the last time anyone seen photos or interview form Obama's White relative.

i could be wrong but I really doubt Obama would get as much Black support if

1. his wife wasn't black

2. he doesn't look black

3. he surround himself with his White relatives.

Quote:
You bring a good example, but that's a historical example. Times have changed now, and there's more than enough evidence to show this, so I don't need to hear people telling me or anyone that the only arguments they have are based on moral high grounds and nothing else.
a few yrs ago when i was working fro a Bank of America i had a co-worker that was black but she was actually black black but more of a light brown color. She told me that she divorce her husband because of his drug use, his relative who were black black blame her for the his drug problem and call her a white woman.

this isn't historical, this crap still goes on and it is 2 way street. Whites discriminate against Blacks and Blacks discriminated back and not just against Whites but also other Blacks whose color is on the lighter side.
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Old 2009-10-16, 10:56   Link #4373
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
i have seen plenty of photos of Obama and His wife and kids and even his half brother in Kenya. But when was the last time anyone seen photos or interview form Obama's White relative.

i could be wrong but I really doubt Obama would get as much Black support if

1. his wife wasn't black

2. he doesn't look black

3. he surround himself with his White relatives.
He doesn't do it publicly, but it's public knowledge that his mother is white. My point was not the fact he surrounds himself with white relatives, but that he's the product of a mixed marriage but he still has support from the majority despite that. Go look it up if you don't believe me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
a few yrs ago when i was working fro a Bank of America i had a co-worker that was black but she was actually black black but more of a light brown color. She told me that she divorce her husband because of his drug use, his relative who were black black blame her for the his drug problem and call her a white woman.

this isn't historical, this crap still goes on and it is 2 way street. Whites discriminate against Blacks and Blacks discriminated back and not just against Whites but also other Blacks whose color is on the lighter side.
Does the fact he was on drugs justify their racism? I won't deny that racism still exists. The point I'm trying to make is that it's wrong, just as it was wrong for the judge to justify his racist behavior and then saying he isn't racist on top of that. But while it still exists, it is slowly on the downfall, and there is plenty of evidence that there's a lot of mixed marriages going around.
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Old 2009-10-16, 11:57   Link #4374
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Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo View Post
If this marriage would bring religious conflicts between the famlies of the couple, then I would be worried (although I'd still stick to the couple's side and liase with the families). If the woman were muslim, I'd be concerned about her family considering Islam doesn't allow its women to marry men of another religion (men are though so long as it's abrahamic).
I don't see why religion should matter any more than "race". Consenting adults, unattached - he doesn't get to tell them whether they can marry or not.

Quote:
But to refute a marriage between a black man and white woman (or is it the other way around?) is just stupid. Those kinds of marriages happen all the time all over the world. Obama's mom is white, just to bring an obvious example. So this is just stupid. I agree with the couple filing a discrimination complaint. The judge deserves a boot to the head and a boot out of his position.
I'm not sure Obama's such a great example. His parents did separate not long after his birth, after all. Besides, it's just a guess, but I don't think Democrat presidents are all that popular with that judge. And you may consider him "successful", but really... He's a lawyer and a politician. Do we really need more of those?


Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I guess it is time to share something as a racial mongrel.

Though I see that the judge is seen as racist, I do understand how he feels with his judgment.

My father and maternal grandmother are half-half, and they received tremendous discrimination from their individual communities. And I do not know if it is a coincidence or what, but out of the few mix-race friends I have, only one came from an intact family. The judge may have sound wrong, but pragmatically speaking, he may be right. While you guys are hammering the man, or are speaking for the couple, it is best to think of the kids because in a failed relationship, they suffer the most.

For those of you living in Asia, you might know Takeshi Kaneshiro. He is half-Jap, and incidentally, born AFTER WWII where anti-Jap sentiments still run thanks to "corrunism". He is still treated as trash and bullied in school because of his heritage.

Regarding his usage of terms, can anyone name me anything better sounding than "black"? Do we call them Afro? Subhuman? I don't think the word matters as long as the point is brought straight across. Such arguments often make hypocrites out of everyone involved as critics scramble for a "moral high ground" to consolidate their seriously flawed stands.

Mix breed may be the politically correct term for mongrel, but it doesn't hide the fact that they are still treated like scum of the earth. Before we mend the problems of racism and interracial marriage, it is better that we project an image of harmony between races to avoid giving others that benefit of doubt, no matter how small that may be.

P.S I must admit, for a legally trained person, he sucks at arguing because he could have quoted something else other than letting blacks use his bathroom and such, opening up to an attack from the masses when emotions run high. But I give him credit for his frankness.
Yeah, yeah. It can be a pain. So can a lot of things. Being poor, being the wrong color, the wrong religion, whatever. Doesn't mean that the prospective couples are any less of majors, with all the rights that go with it. And bending to such pressures isn't going to make them go away.

Besides, if we're going to forbid all the... demographics that tend to fail their marriages, let's start with everyone under the age of 30.
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Old 2009-10-16, 12:00   Link #4375
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If he is an elected or appointed official then he has no right to refuse to marry people based on race. If the city appointed him then the city could be sued along with him on discrimination.
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Old 2009-10-16, 12:23   Link #4376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I don't see why religion should matter any more than "race". Consenting adults, unattached - he doesn't get to tell them whether they can marry or not.
Perhaps, but it's bound to cause more conflict that a marriage between two people of different color

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I'm not sure Obama's such a great example. His parents did separate not long after his birth, after all. Besides, it's just a guess, but I don't think Democrat presidents are all that popular with that judge. And you may consider him "successful", but really... He's a lawyer and a politician. Do we really need more of those?
Obama lived with his mother in Hawaii for most of his life, not with his father. While they separated, he was still the product of a mixed marriage and lived with white relatives as he grew up. That's also public knowledge.
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Old 2009-10-16, 13:16   Link #4377
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Baby OK after train hits stroller in Australia

Just saw this on the news, Holy Shi....! That was sure lucky.
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Old 2009-10-16, 13:18   Link #4378
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Originally Posted by Zwei View Post
Baby OK after train hits stroller in Australia

Just saw this on the news, Holy Shi....! That was sure lucky.
Some parents are just FAIL.
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Old 2009-10-16, 13:23   Link #4379
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Originally Posted by Zwei View Post
Baby OK after train hits stroller in Australia

Just saw this on the news, Holy Shi....! That was sure lucky.
It's not much effort to put the breaks on the stroller >.>
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Old 2009-10-16, 13:58   Link #4380
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Baby OK after train hits stroller in Australia

Just saw this on the news, Holy Shi....! That was sure lucky.
Baby falls in front of train as camera rolls

CNN has a video. Check it out.
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