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Old 2010-01-20, 22:10   Link #5521
Nosauz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
-off to take care of some household chores as he just got home from work-
trying to be funny, it's your choice to have a job that doesn't allow access to computers. ZOMG you work as if that makes your point any more valid than mine or makes my point invalid.

Also I didn't even mention the second amendment so if you think the 1st amendment is the second amendment masquerading as the freedom to speech then I have no understanding to why you brought up the second amendment.

Quote:
An October 2001 memo from John Yoo, for example, states that the “Fourth Amendment would not apply” for domestic military operations. The memo also restricted basic First Amendment rights:

In perhaps the most surprising assertion, the Oct. 23, 2001, memo suggested the president could even suspend press freedoms if he concluded it was necessary to wage the war on terror. “First Amendment speech and press rights may also be subordinated to the overriding need to wage war successfully,” Yoo wrote in the memo entitled “Authority for Use of Military Force to Combat Terrorist Activity Within the United States.”
In the name of fighting terrorism, the fear doctrine has started to erode our civil liberties. Not to mention the unwarranted tapping and surveillance which in essence is also an attempt to control free speech by turning anything you say into evidence of your possible guilt.
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Old 2010-01-20, 22:28   Link #5522
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
trying to be funny, it's your choice to have a job that doesn't allow access to computers. ZOMG you work as if that makes your point any more valid than mine or makes my point invalid.

Also I didn't even mention the second amendment so if you think the 1st amendment is the second amendment masquerading as the freedom to speech then I have no understanding to why you brought up the second amendment.
If I had internet access at work I'd never get anything done. It's for my own good.

Vexx said people on my side politically are disarming ourselves. I said we aren't, as we're the big supporters of the 2nd amendment, which helps protect the first amendment. As long as we are able to protect those freedoms, we are never disarmed.

I'll try and discuss the other part of our discussion later(after dinner?).

It's kind of fun being on a forum where I'm pretty much alone on my political views. Makes for interesting discussions. Though I wish I had more of my old man's debate skills and his personal experiences. Instead I rely much on what the people around me have been through as I haven't been alive long enough for some topics.
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Old 2010-01-20, 22:54   Link #5523
Nosauz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
It's kind of fun being on a forum where I'm pretty much alone on my political views. Makes for interesting discussions. Though I wish I had more of my old man's debate skills and his personal experiences. Instead I rely much on what the people around me have been through as I haven't been alive long enough for some topics.
Wait? I'm confused? Why would you base your life on someone else's past experiences? This is one of the reasons why there is such a negative affect on black youths in america due to hip hop/gangster rap. Oh well to each his own, and the reason I bring up your response to the second ammendment is because you should at least seperate them since you were quoting what I said.
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Old 2010-01-20, 23:12   Link #5524
Vexx
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Hmmm, I was misinterpreted.... I was implying that it was mostly liberals who were "unarmed" in any hypothetical civil war. Though many more liberals/progressives own guns than conservatives think (or that the vocal anti-gun crowd think). This is kind of derailing the thread methinks.
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Old 2010-01-20, 23:13   Link #5525
iLney
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Wow. This is amazing....

Edit: or my sarcasm detector is broken...
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Old 2010-01-20, 23:16   Link #5526
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Hmmm, I was misinterpreted.... I was implying that it was mostly liberals who were "unarmed" in any hypothetical civil war. Though many more liberals/progressives own guns than conservatives think (or that the vocal anti-gun crowd think).

all those sixties radical would also dust off thier Molotov cocktail recipes.
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Old 2010-01-21, 02:01   Link #5527
Seitsuki
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When did this get so political -_- the election's over! (the war goes on...)
not that war.
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Old 2010-01-21, 02:54   Link #5528
TinyRedLeaf
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Mahathir: 9/11 was staged
Quote:
Kuala Lumpur (Jan 21): There is strong evidence that the Sept 11 attacks on the United States that killed nearly 3,000 could have been "staged" as an excuse to mount attacks on the Muslim world, said Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad.

"I am not sure now that Muslim terrorists carried out these attacks. There is evidence that the attacks were staged. If they can make Avatar, they can make anything," the former prime minister told a press conference here yesterday after delivering his speech at the General Conference for the Support of Al-Quds to aid the Palestinians.

He said killing innocent people to provide an excuse for war was not new to the US. "But whether real or staged, the 9/11 attacks have served the US and Western countries well. They have an excuse to mount attacks on the Muslim world," he added.

He also said that Israel was created after the Europeans failed to massacre the Jewish community.

"The Jews had always been a problem in European countries. They had to be confined to ghettoes and periodically massacred. But still they remained, they thrived and they held whole governments to ransom... Even after their massacre by the Nazis of Germany, they survived to continue to be a source of even greater problems for the world," said Dr Mahathir, who was noted for his anti-Western and anti-Zionist stand while in power for 22 years, until October 2003.

Dr Mahathir also criticised US President Barack Obama for failing to fulfil his promises concerning the country's commitment in West Asia, including his promise to resolve the prevailing Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

On another issue, Dr Mahathir said he supported the plan to set up the inter-faith council as it could help promote effective understanding among religious groups in the country. Such a council, he said, would provide a platform for people to talk about sensitive religious matters reasonably without taking it to the streets.

- THE STAR ONLINE, THE STRAITS TIMES
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Old 2010-01-21, 03:26   Link #5529
Jinto
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Now if someone like this Dr Mahathir Mohamad (Dr in what anyway) promotes a platform for people to talk about something reasonably, can anyone ridicule their point even more than him... He sure lives in his own funny world - sadly outside of a lunatic asylum.
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Old 2010-01-21, 03:37   Link #5530
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
(Dr in what anyway)
He is a medical doctor who ran a private practice before joining politics in 1964. Source here.

On a more light-hearted note (every pun intended):


Japanese group adds sheen to traditional music
Quote:
Tokyo (Jan 20): Ancient Japanese musical instruments were given a new shine after one group decided to make theirs out of glass, instead of traditional wood.

Unveiling a five instrument ensemble in a Tokyo hotel today, the Hari Gonin Bayashi established to promote the use of glass in traditional Japanese instruments. They played several traditional songs to a mixed audience of media and the general public.

Drums and flutes play a major part in traditional Japanese music, with the tsuzumi, or an hourglass-shaped drum often being the lead instrument. Usually made out of leather and hard wood, the tsuzumi is famed for its high pitched beats and is the only Japanese drum that is hit with one's bare hands.

These glass instruments are the brainchild of the shakuhachi flute player Gazan Watanabe, who says glass is the perfect material for Japanese musical instruments.

- REUTERS

Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2010-01-21 at 03:55.
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Old 2010-01-21, 03:41   Link #5531
MeoTwister5
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Considering the way 9/11 was, and probably still is, used as an excuse for pushing American agendas at the expense of the rest of the world, I actually wouldn't be surprised if it WAS staged.

Whether you like it or not the former Prime Minister of Malaysia AFAIK still has a strong influence on his country.
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Old 2010-01-21, 03:53   Link #5532
Irenicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
Considering the way 9/11 was, and probably still is, used as an excuse for pushing American agendas at the expense of the rest of the world, I actually wouldn't be surprised if it WAS staged.
Look, if you're gonna have fun, mark it with an emoticon. We is stupid. We slow, we not know internet sarcasm.

...or are you actually serious!?
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Old 2010-01-21, 03:54   Link #5533
Dilla
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Oh Gawd, not this crap again.

And it comes off as if this guy isn't even claiming that the US Government blew the towers themselves. It looks like he's saying that they used super-awesome special effects. Wow. . .
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Old 2010-01-21, 03:56   Link #5534
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
He is a medical doctor who ran a private practice before joining politics in 1964. Source here.
A medical doctor, that explains the tendency for a lack of constructing a sound argumentative/logical chain of arguments.

@MeoTwister5,

Its not that I oppose the statement that 9/11 is (mis)used for a variety of things, but to link this with a statement that 9/11 could (most likely) be staged is just... beyond my understanding, how an even halfway decent educated person... well there is no point to further promote this man's ideas here.
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Old 2010-01-21, 05:02   Link #5535
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
I actually wouldn't be surprised if it WAS staged.
You know, I could post a site that debunks most conspiracy claims, but I've discovered it generally doesn't work very well. Instead I'm going to post this link:
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse....i?u=911_morons

As the man says, if the government is willing to stage an attack that killed almost 3000 of it's own citizens in order to further go on to kill tens of thousands of people in other countries, why don't they just kill the people promoting these conspiracy theories? They've already shown that killing thousands of people means nothing to them, so why let the people who stumble across this live? Unless of course it's all bullshit, there is no conspiracy, this is all being made up, and terrorists really did cause 9-11.
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Old 2010-01-21, 05:17   Link #5537
Mystique
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The news thread has almost become like an actual news programme.
Focus on the bad, negative and sad, so let's toss in something 'nice' for a change

This is in regards to the plight in Haiti, which journalists sure are milking as much as they can for ratings at present, but at least some have managed to find some stories of hope/ positivity about in such a sea of tragedy.

Woman freed under rubble as new quake hits.
Trapped for a week, almost 70 years old but still alive and kicking.
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Old 2010-01-21, 05:23   Link #5538
MeoTwister5
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@Everyone who quoted me.

Sarcasm much?

My point being is that the tragedy is been abused so much for personal/nationalistic/imperialistic gain that it doesn't surprise me if people start to think that the entire event was staged as grounds for such a reaction on part of the Bush administration. The rest of the world grieved with you all, but once it became a pretense for invasion of countries in which the gols have become so muddied and questionable over the years, you're going to have screwballs thinking it was all a joke to give the American government an excuse to do what they did.

Add to that of course that most of those denying 9/11 much the same way as denying the holocaust are Muslims, the very same people who feel like they're in the sights of America's rifle scopes after 9/11. Doesn't take a genius again because all this has been in the news for years.

It's so easy to blame the people for denying the tragedy, but so hard to ask yourselves why they deny it in the first place. I would go so far as to say that if the US government didn't act and react as they did, you wouldn't have Malaysia's ex-Prime Minister spouting of anti-American rhetoric while speaking about religious tolerance and Iran's (duly elected?) President supporting hardline Islamic views while battling killing protesters in the streets.

Whether America will admit or not, it help create this growing Anti-American trend, a point outside observers have been poiting out for almost ten years.
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Old 2010-01-21, 05:41   Link #5539
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
@Everyone who quoted me.

Sarcasm much?

My point being is that the tragedy is been abused so much for personal/nationalistic/imperialistic gain that it doesn't surprise me if people start to think that the entire event was staged as grounds for such a reaction on part of the Bush administration. The rest of the world grieved with you all, but once it became a pretense for invasion of countries in which the gols have become so muddied and questionable over the years, you're going to have screwballs thinking it was all a joke to give the American government an excuse to do what they did.

Add to that of course that most of those denying 9/11 much the same way as denying the holocaust are Muslims, the very same people who feel like they're in the sights of America's rifle scopes after 9/11. Doesn't take a genius again because all this has been in the news for years.

It's so easy to blame the people for denying the tragedy, but so hard to ask yourselves why they deny it in the first place. I would go so far as to say that if the US government didn't act and react as they did, you wouldn't have Malaysia's ex-Prime Minister spouting of anti-American rhetoric while speaking about religious tolerance and Iran's (duly elected?) President supporting hardline Islamic views while battling killing protesters in the streets.

Whether America will admit or not, it help create this growing Anti-American trend, a point outside observers have been poiting out for almost ten years.
When you're saying something sarcastically that others frequently say earnestly, you need to put an emoticon in, as Irenicus pointed out. Also, blaming everything on how the US government acts is disingenuous. Anti-US sentiment didn't begin when the US invaded Afghanistan or Iraq after all, and it's perfectly possible to be Anti-US and still not believe in stupid conspiracy theories.
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Old 2010-01-21, 06:24   Link #5540
MeoTwister5
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I'm not blaming everything on the US government. Yes the anti-American sentiments have fostered in the hearts and minds of outsiders for decades, both deservingly and undeservingly. The problem becomes when people start thinking that they have no involvement in the causation of the problems at hand that the problems get worse and start instigating "solutions" when they clearly do not truly understand the root of the issue. The purported solutions themselves become confounders to the problem and further add fuel to the fire. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, I suppose.

I don't know enough about American government and foreign policy to know just what the hell was going on in their minds when they gave to go signal for the tanks to roll in, but personally over the years I just saw that if the Bush administration did have good intentions then they still haven't made it real that now Obama inherited a big problem. I'd say it's both a problem of understanding how to deal with the people they're helping and not knowing how to cull the weeds at the root.
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