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Old 2010-01-23, 01:44   Link #5601
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
see this is a rational statement, yet the problem is Michael savage, Glenn beck, and rush limbaugh are the current "core" that RNC seems to gravitate toward to. The ones that scream socialism at anyone who dissents, somewhat dredges up the fear back during the mcarthy era.
I'm not a big fan of Rush Limbaugh. What he did do though, was get talk radio on the map. A media venue, that Conservatism rules quite strongly. However, I do believe Beck is less extreme, and more of a Libertarian type who tries to educate those who listen. He tends to have more hits than strikes.
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Old 2010-01-23, 01:59   Link #5602
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
I'm not a big fan of Rush Limbaugh. What he did do though, was get talk radio on the map. A media venue, that Conservatism rules quite strongly. However, I do believe Beck is less extreme, and more of a Libertarian type who tries to educate those who listen. He tends to have more hits than strikes.
glen beck is not a libertarian... by any stretches of the imagination. I mean if you consider olberman's name calling out of hand then you should consider beck's to be quite out there too. Considering he's called our president a nazi, a socialist, not an american, a muslim, and a racist. I mean he is in no way an advocate of the constitution. True libertarians are the ones who started the tea parties, whereas glen beck tagged his ideological mess on to it and astroturfed the entire protest yet called it grass roots. Glen Beck plays on the fears and the xenophobic nature of Americans willing to sacrifice our civil liberties for "safety" which is not a libertarian thing at all.

This is why it's hard to take you at face value. These people I listed do name call, and play childish games, yet you look to find excuses for why their name calling is called for. If you can't stand olberman's fear mongering and outraegous accusations and allegations how can you stomach that of rush limbaugh or glen beck or pat obrian.
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Old 2010-01-23, 02:11   Link #5603
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Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
glen beck is not a libertarian... by any stretches of the imagination. I mean if you consider olberman's name calling out of hand then you should consider beck's to be quite out there too. Considering he's called our president a nazi, a socialist, not an american, a muslim, and a racist. I mean he is in no way an advocate of the constitution. True libertarians are the ones who started the tea parties, whereas glen beck tagged his ideological mess on to it and astroturfed the entire protest yet called it grass roots. Glen Beck plays on the fears and the xenophobic nature of Americans willing to sacrifice our civil liberties for "safety" which is not a libertarian thing at all.

This is why it's hard to take you at face value. These people I listed do name call, and play childish games, yet you look to find excuses for why their name calling is called for. If you can't stand olberman's fear mongering and outraegous accusations and allegations how can you stomach that of rush limbaugh or glen beck or pat obrian.
I listen to Glen Beck, and I have NEVER heard him call Obama any of the things you mentioned. Now I've heard Michael Savage call him those names and worse. Are you sure you've ever listened to his show and not just some talking points from a left-wing site? I listen to him everyday as does my dad. And my dad would NEVER listen to someone who would call our President a Nazi or unamerican.

And when the hell did I ever say I find excuses in name calling from people in any position of power?

I find it hard to take many people on this forum seriously when almost no one here EVER posts links proving their accusations.
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Old 2010-01-23, 02:25   Link #5604
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He did call Obama racist after the Gates incident and he did compare the the Obama administration to the Nazi-era Germany regime(without the exermination).

The Obama is racist part(he's defending himself): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_bOmMTIfWM

I would link the video to Nazi comparision but it has liberal comments in the background and I doubt you would like that.
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Old 2010-01-23, 02:34   Link #5605
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Originally Posted by Dilla View Post
He did call Obama racist after the Gates incident and he did compare the the Obama administration to the Nazi-era Germany regime(without the exermination).

The Obama is racist part(he's defending himself): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_bOmMTIfWM

I would link the video to Nazi comparision but it has liberal comments in the background and I doubt you would like that.
Watched the video. If that's the best you have Dilla, you're failing at this discussion. Seriously. Katie Couric did her damnedest to try and bait him. It didn't quite work out that way.

I don't know if Barak Obama is racist or not. I do know, that he keeps some very bad company. Whether it was his Mentor Reverend Wright, or those he surrounds himself with in his Staff and Administration. Company that make Bush's cabinet look like saints(never thought I'd say that). And I don't think it's a mistake that he surrounds himself with such people.
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Old 2010-01-23, 02:37   Link #5606
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Maybe we need a separate thread on "Culture and Politics in the US" so we don't bore the crap out of the rest of the world in the News thread
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Old 2010-01-23, 02:39   Link #5607
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Maybe we need a separate thread on "Culture and Politics in the US" so we don't bore the crap out of the rest of the world in the News thread
Might be a good idea.
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Old 2010-01-23, 02:44   Link #5608
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Watched the video. If that's the best you have Dilla, you're failing at this discussion. Seriously. Katie Couric did her damnedest to try and bait him. It didn't quite work out that way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxLJVVhcDqE

There, then. The original video where he said it from his own mouth. You said you never heard Beck call Obama an racist among many things. The interview with Katie Couric was after the fact where he was defending why he called Obama a racist, whether he is right or not.
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Old 2010-01-23, 02:47   Link #5609
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Well he did say it then. And I have to say I agree with him.
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Old 2010-01-23, 02:49   Link #5610
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Watched the video. If that's the best you have Dilla, you're failing at this discussion. Seriously. Katie Couric did her damnedest to try and bait him. It didn't quite work out that way.

I don't know if Barak Obama is racist or not. I do know, that he keeps some very bad company. Whether it was his Mentor Reverend Wright, or those he surrounds himself with in his Staff and Administration. Company that make Bush's cabinet look like saints(never thought I'd say that). And I don't think it's a mistake that he surrounds himself with such people.
Glen beck said something to the tune of, "Barack obama hates white people" it's what lead to the boycott of sponsors for glen beck's show. Progressive, P&G and many more advertisers made sure that Fox did not air their advertising on his show. His methods scream of fear and association, he flashes a picture of nazi germany and begins talking about Obama... clearly there's a reason, and for most the connection is instant. I really don't want to dig through the archives of Glen Becks show and most likely rupert murdoch hasn't allowed fox to archive it but he's a man that uses fear and not reason to explain what he thinks and in the end resorting to fear instead of reason is reason enough for me to discount what he says, because from principal he's not an honest man.

@justinstrife
your latest comment is just ridiculous. Obama is does not hate white people, and my point is if you don't like olbermann because he calls people names that's fine but if the truth is you don't like his message then be honest about it. Don't try to hide that you beleive olbermann is ridiculous if you continue to look for excuses for people you agree with. I may be liberal but I found olbermann's comments about brown completely outrageous and to me it destroyed the image of somebody defending the notion of truth first, and although I rarely watch his show I find him repulsive. I'm just saying you don't have to try to display a fair open mind when you in fact believe the message is more important. You have really solidified the fact that anything said to you will automatically be thrown out because it doesn't match your ideology and it's a shame, because America doesn't need dividers and partisan bickering it needs solutions but as long as the Us vs them mentality continues to fill each party with delusions of grandeur America will be nothing but a sad shell of it's former self.
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Old 2010-01-23, 02:52   Link #5611
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Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
Glen beck said something to the tune of, "Barack obama hates white people" it's what lead to the boycott of sponsors for glen beck's show. Progressive, P&G and many more advertisers made sure that Fox did not air their advertising on his show. His methods scream of fear and association, he flashes a picture of nazi germany and begins talking about Obama... clearly there's a reason, and for most the connection is instant. I really don't want to dig through the archives of Glen Becks show and most likely rupert murdoch hasn't allowed fox to archive it but he's a man that uses fear and not reason to explain what he thinks and in the end resorting to fear instead of reason is reason enough for me to discount what he says, because from principal he's not an honest man.
He's more honest than the guy in the white house. Just sayin'...

I'd still like to see video proof of him calling Obama a Nazi as I still haven't heard it. I have to believe because of the proof shown me tonight that he has called Obama racist. But I still have to see the other accusations proofs.
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Old 2010-01-23, 02:58   Link #5612
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Well he did say it then. And I have to say I agree with him.
Whether you think Obama is racists wasn't really the point, though (despite the They Might Be Giants song, knowing and working with racists does not make you a racist ). Rather, the point was that Beck represents the same extreme-emotional (without many if any actual facts) rhetoric of such left-wing types as Olbermann and Garofalo (and many of the "commentators" on Air America). (When Garofalo painted the entire Tea Party movement as just "racists", I was pissed...much the same as Beck painting the President as a racist or when Kayne West claimed that Bush hated "coloured people" or when Malkin and others claimed that Obama was trying to indoctrinate the youth of America during his brief telecast to the public schools (etc) - none of these accusations are based on facts, rather they are wild accusations based only on emotional interpretations and enforced by vitriolic rhetoric.)

In the end, the popular commentators seldom have any legitimate facts (they will have names, and sometimes real quotes, but more often those quotes are taken way out of context or they are so out-of-date that even mentioning them seems silly (considering how politicians change their opinions with the populus) to support their wild accusations)...

edit: Beck doesn't directly call Obama a Nazi, rather he compares Obama's potential policies (often, before they are even written) to Nazi policies. More often, Beck, and many others, will simply settle for the almost umbrella terms "fascists" or "socialist").
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Old 2010-01-23, 03:03   Link #5613
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Maybe we need a separate thread on "Culture and Politics in the US" so we don't bore the crap out of the rest of the world in the News thread
Eh, not just the US. Most of us around the world have issues with politics in their countries. The name Lynne Kosky mean anything?
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Old 2010-01-23, 03:05   Link #5614
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"She was a beautiful English princess who married one of Europe's most powerful monarchs and dazzled subjects with her charity and charm. Now an international team of scientists say they think they've found the body of Princess Eadgyth (pronounced Edith) - a 10th-century noblewoman"

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

... from a period of time that tends to fascinate me.
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Old 2010-01-23, 03:07   Link #5615
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...n_AboveLEFTTop

On C-Span tonight Clinton called for freedom of information yet did not call for net neutrality. The irony of her statement just made me sad, with out net neutrality there is no freedom of information because that information is no longer free. It clearly was a potshot at China, and after the drumming at the Coppenhagen Environment Summit it's understandable that the U.S. is trying to maintain dominance.
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Old 2010-01-23, 03:08   Link #5616
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Whether you think Obama is racists wasn't really the point, though (despite the They Might Be Giants song, knowing and working with racists does not make you a racist ). Rather, the point was that Beck represents the same extreme-emotional (without many if any actual facts) rhetoric of such left-wing types as Olbermann and Garofalo (and many of the "commentators" on Air America). (When Garofalo painted the entire Tea Party movement as just "racists", I was pissed...much the same as Beck painting the President as a racist or when Kayne West claimed that Bush hated "coloured people".)

In the end, the popular commentators seldom have any legitimate facts to support their wild accusations...

edit: Beck doesn't directly call Obama a Nazi, rather he compares Obama's potential policies (often, before they are even written) to Nazi policies. More often, Beck, and many others, will simply settle for the umbrella words "fascists" or "socialist").
Well at least you admit that Beck didn't call Obama a Nazi. That's good to hear.

As to Beck's using the word facist...

Wikipedia's definition fits to some degree.

In the economic sphere, many fascist leaders have claimed to support a "Third Way" in economic policy, which they believed superior to both the rampant individualism of unrestrained capitalism and the severe control of state socialism.[15][16] This was to be achieved by establishing significant government control over business and labour (Italian fascist leader Mussolini called his nation's system "the corporate state")

No common and concise definition exists for fascism and historians and political scientists disagree on what should be in any such definition.[19]

Depending on your view of facism, the definition can work, or can't work. Seems like there's arguments for all sides.
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Old 2010-01-23, 03:09   Link #5617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
"She was a beautiful English princess who married one of Europe's most powerful monarchs and dazzled subjects with her charity and charm. Now an international team of scientists say they think they've found the body of Princess Eadgyth (pronounced Edith) - a 10th-century noblewoman"

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

... from a period of time that tends to fascinate me.
I have to admit, that is rather fascinating to me as well.
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Old 2010-01-23, 03:13   Link #5618
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Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
On C-Span tonight Clinton called for freedom of information yet did not call for net neutrality. The irony of her statement just made me sad...
some people will say there's method to her madness...I think it's just madness
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Old 2010-01-23, 03:15   Link #5619
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Well at least you admit that Beck didn't call Obama a Nazi. That's good to hear.

As to Beck's using the word facist...

Wikipedia's definition fits to some degree.

In the economic sphere, many fascist leaders have claimed to support a "Third Way" in economic policy, which they believed superior to both the rampant individualism of unrestrained capitalism and the severe control of state socialism.[15][16] This was to be achieved by establishing significant government control over business and labour (Italian fascist leader Mussolini called his nation's system "the corporate state")

No common and concise definition exists for fascism and historians and political scientists disagree on what should be in any such definition.[19]

Depending on your view of facism, the definition can work, or can't work. Seems like there's arguments for all sides.
Glen Beck's use of the word implies nazi/communist russia/china/musolini type facists. How can I say this for sure? Because as he says facists he has on the screen a picture of hitler and nazi flag waving in the background, he's not beating around the bush, the point is he masks his opinions as facts and he uses fear to "enlighten" his listeners/veiwers.
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Old 2010-01-23, 03:27   Link #5620
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Depending on your view of facism, the definition can work, or can't work. Seems like there's arguments for all sides.
But, there is a very common conception of what facism means, and for Beck's general audience, the only known defintion of facism is used for groups like the Nazi party, etc. He may claim to be using a different defintion, but since he never defines it outside of the audiences initial conception, it really doesn't matter...

The same is true of a Liberal commentator using "conservative" or any Conservative commentator using the words "liberal" or "progressive", though. In fact, it could be said that no commentator uses the word(s) quite right. The right, despite their history of progressive and liberal reform, turns the word(s) "liberal" into a slur. And, the left equally turn the word "conservative" into a slur, despite their positive use of conservatism in the past.
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