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Old 2010-05-31, 13:20   Link #7521
Agito Akiyama
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Join Date: May 2010
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I'm sorry for my half-good English but please read the following:

I'm an Israeli citizen, my parents are Russians but I was born and raised here for almost 18 years.
I live in fear almost every day of terror attacks, Arabs that cause trouble in Israel, Anti-semis that hate Israel and lie about us all the time and I'm afraid that a war will happen.

Them Palestinians are nothing but Jordan shepherds, they were traveling in Israel while there was an Uthmanian control here (in the time of WWI) and later the British came over and took control of this place to reserve the land for the Jews that were long time scattered and banished from this land, the turf that was assigned to us was part of Jordan and the current Israel, well in the beginning before WWII when the Brits took control, the Arabs didn't like that and caused problems and there is the black Friday incident back in the 1920's or the 1930's where Jews were slaughtered by the Arabs that were in Israel.
Later there was the holocaust that 6,000,000 Jews were killed and slaughtered for no reason.

After the second world war UN assigned then 48' borders to Israel and gave other piece of land to the so called "Palestinians", the Jews agreed and Israel were born, the surrounding Muslims countries didn't like that and attacked us, we won and took over some turfs that were assigned to us from the start, plus, it was legal, because they attacked US.
Then there was the war again in 67' where we took some more territories and strategic points so we won't get hurt again.

Back in the 70's, a British reporter decided to reverse the game of war between the Jews and the Muslims and decided Israel were "Goliath" and the Arabs were "David", he called them Palestinians.

Now hold on, statistically there are 1.57 billion across the globe next to 13-14 million Jews and around 6 million in Israel.

Well, they Palestinians decided to use that and keep lying, always, and you probably seen the movie regarding fake dramatization of so called "Palestinian murdering" on YouTube.
Nowadays the lie is what believed to be the truth, for some reason UN and other countries decided it's OK to negotiate with terrorists, they decided the Jordan shepherds that are basically Arabs need a land, and after 8 YEARS of shooting rockets toward Israel, we finally responded and they are claiming we MURDERED "Palestinians" in Gaza.

IDF is the most humanitarian army in the world, no army sent papers by air WARNING the citizens of Gaza before the attack.
Israel is supplying Humanitarian support on a basis and transferred huge amount of money to support Gaza.
We gave them another piece of out land back when Ariel Sharon was the Prime Minister of Israel as a TRIBUTE so they won't kill us, that didn't help and the wall was built, to keep Israeli citizens safe.
Arabs in Israel live very good, and the Palestinians are getting support and the operation in Gaza was to weaken "Hamas" a terror organization that uses kids as shields and blame IDF on it.
The ship to Gaza lately (which is why I'm writing all of this) is a Provocative step from Turkey and the extremists who want to destroy Israel, if they were Humanitarian why they didn't listen to IDF when they told them to stop? Why they didn't respond to our hostage's father when he asked them to support his hostage son?
They just want to cause trouble to Israel, after the IDF went on board of the ship the "passengers of peace" on the ship started to attack them brutally, IDF didn't shoot until they took one of the guns from IDF and one "passenger of peace" started shooting everywhere and probably shot his friends.
Only when our soldier started bleeding hard and got hurt badly then IDF responded to the aggressive attack.

Even in our previous operation IDF warned everyone and they fought with land troopers inside Gaza, threatening the IDF soldiers lives, just for the safety of the people in Gaza.

NO OTHER ARMY IN THE WORLD WILL DO THAT WHEN FIGHTING TERROR AND THE ENEMY.
Think what UK would do in our situation, think what US would do think what Russia would do, people can always point at us and blame us for something we didn't do or start, but look at your countries.

It's important for me to notice that I'm sorry that I used the world Muslims and Arabs a lot, this has no racist intention, it is just to name a population that their ethnicity is that.

Please understand us.
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Old 2010-05-31, 13:22   Link #7522
SaintessHeart
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Ten dead as Israel storms aid ship

Quote:
(Reuters) - Israeli marines stormed a Turkish aid ship bound for Gaza on Monday and at least 10 pro-Palestinian activists were killed, triggering a diplomatic crisis and an emergency session of the U.N. Security Council.

European nations, as well as the United Nations and Turkey, voiced shock and outrage at the bloody end to the international campaigners' bid to break Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip.

Its navy stopped six ships ferrying 700 people and 10,000 tons of supplies toward the Islamist-run Palestinian enclave, but bloody miscalculation left Israel isolated and condemned.

Once-close Muslim ally Turkey accused it of "terrorism" in international waters, and the U.N. Security Council prepared an emergency session. Speaking for Israel's most powerful friend, the United States, President Barack Obama said he wanted the full facts soon and regretted the loss of life.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu also voiced regret as he cut short a visit to Canada and rang Obama to call off a White House meeting planned for Tuesday.

He said his forces had been attacked. "They were mobbed, they were clubbed, they were beaten, stabbed, there was even a report of gunfire. And our soldiers had to defend themselves."

Netanyahu vowed to maintain a three-year-old embargo to stop Iranian-backed Hamas from bringing arms to Gaza.

His White House meeting had seemed intended to soothe ties with Obama, which have been strained by differences over Jewish settlement construction that had delayed a revival of peace talks with the Palestinians. But Obama must also balance support for Israel, which is popular with American voters, with understanding for an angry Turkey and other Muslim U.S. allies.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas seemed unlikely to hold further sessions soon of U.S.-mediated peace talks that began three weeks ago. He said: "What Israel has committed on board the Freedom Flotilla was a massacre."

PAINTBALL ATTACK

As the captured foreign vessels were escorted into Israel's port of Ashdod, accounts were sketchy of the pre-dawn operation, some 120 km (75 miles) out in the Mediterranean. Marines stormed aboard from dinghies and rappelled down from helicopters.

Military night-vision video, aired on Israeli television, showed some commandos being winched down, only to be surrounded and beaten. Some Israeli commentators asked why commanders put troops in a position where they felt they had to open fire.

An Israeli minister admitted plans to maintain the blockade on Hamas while avoiding an international incident had backfired in spectacular fashion: "It's going to be a big scandal, no doubt about it," Trade Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer said.

One marine told reporters his squad went in with anti-riot paintball guns but, fearing for their lives, some resorted to using live pistols, while others jumped overboard. In military footage, a commando fired a paintball at a man who seemed to be clubbing an Israeli.

Other video showed a commando fire a pistol, two-handed.

Netanyahu said at least 10 activists died on the Mavi Marmara, a Turkish cruise ship carrying 581 people. Military officers said some activists had snatched pistols from the boarding party, which responded to gunfire. Seven troops and 20 protesters were injured, the military said.

Protest organizers said they believed up to 16 people may have been killed, including six Turks. A senior Israeli officer said most of the dead were Turks. The convoy also featured Americans, Israelis, Palestinians and many Europeans.

Israel imposed a communications blackout on those aboard the convoy and other accounts of events were not available. Consular officials were at Ashdod seeking access to detained foreigners.

TURKISH ANGER

The bloodshed sparked street protests and government ire in Turkey, long Israel's lone Muslim ally in the region.

Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, whose Islamist views and outreach to Iran and other Israeli enemies are blamed by many in Israel for souring relations, said before cutting short a trip to Chile: "This action, totally contrary to the principles of international law, is inhumane state terrorism."

Ankara also canceled joint military exercises and recalled its ambassador. Israel told tourists in Turkey to stay indoors.

Israel's deputy foreign minister, Danny Ayalon, dismissed charges that Israel had broken international law by boarding foreign ships far beyond its territorial waters.

Israeli forces were on high alert on the Gaza, Syrian and Lebanese borders as well as around Jerusalem, the occupied West Bank and Arab-populated areas of northern Israel. Aside from a few scuffles, however, there was little violence locally.

There were demonstrations in several world cities.

Israel's Arab enemy Syria, which hosts exiled Hamas leaders, called for an Arab League meeting. The League condemned what it called a "terrorist act." Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called it "inhuman." Tehran urged the world to isolate Israel.

More worryingly for Israel, its friends showed little sympathy. The outrage sounded at times more uniformly hostile to the Jewish state than during its offensive in Gaza, which killed 1,400 Palestinians in December 2008 and January 2009.

Israel said it launched that war to curb Hamas rocket fire on its towns. But it has found it harder to win understanding for an embargo limiting supplies to 1.5 million people in Gaza, including cement the U.N. says it needs to repair bomb damage.

A senior U.N. official responsible for the aid on which Gaza depends said: "Such tragedies are entirely avoidable if Israel heeds the repeated calls of the international community to end its counterproductive and unacceptable blockade of Gaza."

Greta Berlin, a spokeswoman for the Free Gaza Movement that organized the convoy, said: "How could the Israeli military attack civilians like this? Do they think that because they can attack Palestinians indiscriminately they can attack anyone?"
The Israelis are there to search and seize the ship for arms. Why the FUCK did those activists attack them?

The activists are seriously fucked up. Seriously, seriously fucked up. They even snatch pistols from the commandos! How can they call themselves "peace activists" when they did not even let the boarding party search their ship for arms? If they don't have anything bad to show, why should they be angry?

The Turks should be entering a dialogue with Iran to stop the arms smuggling into Gaza rather than directing the anger at the Israelis who are defending themselves.
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Old 2010-05-31, 13:35   Link #7523
yoropa
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
The Israelis are there to search and seize the ship for arms. Why the FUCK did those activists attack them?

The activists are seriously fucked up. Seriously, seriously fucked up. They even snatch pistols from the commandos! How can they call themselves "peace activists" when they did not even let the boarding party search their ship for arms? If they don't have anything bad to show, why should they be angry?

The Turks should be entering a dialogue with Iran to stop the arms smuggling into Gaza rather than directing the anger at the Israelis who are defending themselves.
itt; people thinking that people getting desperate when commandos raid their ship is infinitely worse than said people being killed by those commandos
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Old 2010-05-31, 13:38   Link #7524
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
The Turks should be entering a dialogue with Iran to stop the arms smuggling into Gaza rather than directing the anger at the Israelis who are defending themselves.
turkey's current PM arduan is of the same ideological mind frame as hamas and iran are.
he WANTS confrentations with israel, because he's trying to promote his islamic agenda in turkey (which is still mostly secular) and turn it into another muslim ruled country
and in the middle east, anyone who wants popular support, gets it by picking on the israeli's

its the one constant fact about the mid east
any group that tries to seek popular support to promote their OWN agenda, first attacks israel
and then when they GET popular support, they show their true colors by turning on the REAL enemy, their own people
its what hizballa did, right before taking over beirut by force
its what hamas did, right before taking over gaza by force
and its what iran's doing, right before it would try and take over the gulf states


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Originally Posted by yoropa View Post
itt; people thinking that people getting desperate when commandos raid their ship is infinitely worse than said people being killed by those commandos
if they didn't attack the commandos, no one would have been hurt (there were five other ships the commandos took over, and no one was hurt there)
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Old 2010-05-31, 13:46   Link #7525
yoropa
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if they didn't attack the commandos, no one would have been hurt (there were five other ships the commandos took over, and no one was hurt there)
So I guess if Nazis are coming into the homes of Jewish people then the Jews shouldn't resist the Nazis, and if the Nazis kill the Jews because they were resisting, then it is 100% the fault of the Jews and the Nazis are 100% correct in killing them.

That is what your argument is.
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Old 2010-05-31, 13:49   Link #7526
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by yoropa View Post
So I guess if Nazis are coming into the homes of Jewish people then the Jews shouldn't resist the Nazis, and if the Nazis kill the Jews because they were resisting, then it is 100% the fault of the Jews and the Nazis are 100% correct in killing them.

That is what your argument is.
Except that nobody is going into anyone else's home. These were boats that were in international waters. Yes, they were arguably outside of Israel's jurisdiction (according to reports) but it isn't exactly unusual for security checks to take place - and with no loss of life.
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Old 2010-05-31, 13:49   Link #7527
yoropa
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Except that nobody is going into anyone else's home. These were boats that were in international waters. Yes, they were arguably outside of Israel's jurisdiction (according to reports) but it isn't exactly unusual for security checks to take place - and with no loss of life.
Replace home with boat in my statement.
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Old 2010-05-31, 13:51   Link #7528
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Replace home with boat in my statement.
You can't. A person's home is representative of something much greater. If police barged into my workplace I'd feel a heck of a lot less violated than if they barged into my home. Wouldn't you?
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Old 2010-05-31, 13:51   Link #7529
SaintessHeart
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Well take a look at this propaganda :

http://www.freegaza.org/

Quote:
(Cyprus, June 1, 2010, 6:30 am) Under darkness of night, Israeli commandoes dropped from a helicopter onto the Turkish passenger ship, Mavi Marmara, and began to shoot the moment their feet hit the deck. They fired directly into the crowd of civilians asleep. According to the live video from the ship, two have been killed, and 31 injured. Al Jazeera has just confirmed the numbers.

Streaming video shows the Israeli soldiers shooting at civilians, and our last SPOT beacon said, “HELP, we are being contacted by the Israelis.”

We know nothing about the other five boats. Israel says they are taking over the boats.

The coalition of Free Gaza Movement (FG), European Campaign to End the Siege of Gaza (ECESG), Insani Yardim Vakfi (IHH), the Perdana Global Peace Organisation , Ship to Gaza Greece, Ship to Gaza Sweden, and the International Committee to Lift the Siege on Gaza appeal to the international community to demand that Israel stop their brutal attack on civilians delivering vitally needed aid to the imprisoned Palestinians of Gaza and permit the ships to continue on their way.

The attack has happened in international waters, 75 miles off the coast of Israel, in direct violation of international law.
So, you mean the civilians are allowed to smuggle rockets and mortar bombs in? You call that aid? Apparently the problem is that the activists don't use their heads. When military board your ship, stand down and surrender. When pirates board your ship, fight back. Militaries have their own right of defense within a certain limit OUTSIDE of their territorial waters to defend their sovereignty under the U.N law too.

Here is a solution to this problem : negotiate with the Israeli government to allow boarding and searching of the ship carrying aid into the Gaza strip. These activists are making the whole world look like idiots.
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-05-31, 13:54   Link #7530
yoropa
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You can't. A person's home is representative of something much greater. If police barged into my workplace I'd feel a heck of a lot less violated than if they barged into my home. Wouldn't you?
In that case you should have found the entire formation of Israel to be utterly despicable.
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Old 2010-05-31, 13:54   Link #7531
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by yoropa View Post
So I guess if Nazis are coming into the homes of Jewish people then the Jews shouldn't resist the Nazis, and if the Nazis kill the Jews because they were resisting, then it is 100% the fault of the Jews and the Nazis are 100% correct in killing them.

That is what your argument is.
oh...
so you're one of those i take it
*sigh*

the commandos were taking over ships carrying blockade runners who were trying to violate a maritime blockade set in place by the israeli Navy
they were repeatedly ordered to turn back, but refused, at which point they were boarded
the soldiers who boarded the ships we're not going to hurt their passangers anymore then the ones on the OTHER five ships were hurt (which is none at all), but they WERE going to prevent them from continuing on their course, and redirect them to the port of ashdod
at which point, the passangers on the BIG ship started violently attacking the soldiers (watch the vids), who ended up having to use lethal force to defend themselves
its an open and shut case
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Old 2010-05-31, 13:55   Link #7532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoropa View Post
So I guess if Nazis are coming into the homes of Jewish people then the Jews shouldn't resist the Nazis, and if the Nazis kill the Jews because they were resisting, then it is 100% the fault of the Jews and the Nazis are 100% correct in killing them.

That is what your argument is.
/facepalm.

The Nazis rounded up the Jews, shipped off to extermination camps.

Did the commandos intend to round up the activists and gas them in camps?

Poor comparison SIR.
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Old 2010-05-31, 13:55   Link #7533
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by yoropa View Post
In that case you should have found the entire formation of Israel to be utterly despicable.
It was a tragedy. What's going on today is also a tragedy. It's a bit late to be crying over events that happened a few decades ago.
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Old 2010-05-31, 13:57   Link #7534
yoropa
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
oh...
so you're one of those i take it
*sigh*
One of those what? Go ahead and say it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
the commandos were taking over ships carrying blockade runners who were trying to violate a maritime blockade set in place by the israeli Navy
they were repeatedly ordered to turn back, but refused, at which point they were boarded
the soldiers who boarded the ships we're not going to hurt their passangers anymore then the ones on the OTHER five ships were hurt (which is none at all), but they WERE going to prevent them from continuing on their course, and redirect them to the port of ashdod
at which point, the passangers on the BIG ship started violently attacking the soldiers (watch the vids), who ended up having to use lethal force to defend themselves
its an open and shut case
That's where our problem is. Lethal force was unnecessary.
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Old 2010-05-31, 13:59   Link #7535
yoropa
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It was a tragedy. What's going on today is also a tragedy. It's a bit late to be crying over events that happened a few decades ago.
So you'd then agree Israel should no longer receive international funds because of the Holocaust? After all, it happened more than a few decades ago.
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Old 2010-05-31, 14:00   Link #7536
Ledgem
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So you'd then agree Israel should no longer receive international funds because of the Holocaust? After all, it happened more than a few decades ago.
Yes, I'd agree with that.
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Old 2010-05-31, 14:01   Link #7537
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by yoropa View Post
One of those what? Go ahead and say it.
people who reject israel's right to exist in the first place
your following statement to ledgem sealed the deal on that one

Quote:
That's where our problem is. Lethal force was unnecessary.
says the guy who wasn't there.
if the soldiers deemed it necessary, they were in a better position to determine it then YOU are.
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Old 2010-05-31, 14:02   Link #7538
yoropa
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Yes, I'd agree with that.
With that, if you don't mind, I'd like to propose my peace plan:

UN stops funding the entire region for a while.
The US takes over the entire region, and stops all insurgents from both sides.
The US enforces the borders and stays there to ensure they remain the same.

It's not a popular idea because it involves US intervention, but that's the only way peace would happen. Because none of us want these news stories to keep popping up.
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Old 2010-05-31, 14:03   Link #7539
yoropa
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
people who reject israel's right to exist in the first place
your following statement to ledgem sealed the deal on that one
Keep putting words in people's mouths.


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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
says the guy who wasn't there.
if the soldiers deemed it necessary, they were in a better position to determine it then YOU are.
You weren't there either. XD
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Old 2010-05-31, 14:04   Link #7540
Agito Akiyama
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I won't even bother responding to this BS.
What IDF did was right, this ship was provocative and was warned before entering the territory and they can't let them in, which was the way they were heading.

Just a few clips about what happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2duPV9MQIc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LulDJh4fWI
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