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Old 2010-06-02, 10:48   Link #7621
xris
Just call me Ojisan
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xris View Post
I suggest that everyone cool down as the discussion in this thread is getting too heated.

From the forum rules.

2.8 Avoid flammable and cyclic topics
Please be aware that political and religious discussions often cause very heated debates with little give or take on either side. They normally start out interesting and sensible but degrade rapidly. This produces the same arguments repeatedly for pages and induces many members to start "flaming" each other. Such topics will most likely be closed unless care is taken to keep the thread both interesting and polite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xris View Post
Again, please remember that while you may discuss the various new stories, please do not let any of the debates get out of hand.
It seems a few people here are trying to push the acceptable limits. I'm going to start issuing Infractions and bans if the discussion concerning Gaza (and the off-topic fallout) continues.
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Old 2010-06-02, 10:50   Link #7622
MrTerrorist
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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Anyway here's some nice news.

Volkswagen camper van marks 60 years of production
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Old 2010-06-02, 11:02   Link #7623
chikorita157
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Stuck blade stalls BP effort to cap well

Looks like BP is having further trouble with their plan, thus becoming a lost cause.... This probably means more raeg against BP as the oil further reach the shores of beaches...
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Old 2010-06-02, 11:07   Link #7624
SaintessHeart
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Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by chikorita157 View Post
Stuck blade stalls BP effort to cap well

Looks like BP is having further trouble with their plan, thus becoming a lost cause.... This probably means more raeg against BP as the oil further reach the shores of beaches...
You know, I actually have a plan for this, but I don't know if it works.

My idea is to insert a weighted giant "condom" with its front clipped off, tie the clipped part to the pipe, then float the "condom" so it looks like a funnel. Then we can run vacuum pumps from ships or onshore facilities to pump the oil away, and have onsite pumps to pump water out of the funnel to accommodate the oil gushing out.
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-06-02, 11:11   Link #7625
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
http://newsjunkiepost.com/2010/06/01...-million-fine/

This is the end of America... the rich are not held accountable for their action, the poor are treated on a different standard and corporations have human rights. I can see why republicans hate government so much, although they probably love it now for being the crippled ineffective P.O.S it is now. How can the SEC even contemplate letting Goldmansachs off without an audit, and a trial where they and their cronies basically held the nation for ransom. It just baffles me.
The Government had a role in this whole crisis. As did the lending industry, and the consumers as well. Unfortunately none were allowed to fail, and the economic repercussions continue...
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Old 2010-06-02, 11:20   Link #7626
Nosauz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
The Government had a role in this whole crisis. As did the lending industry, and the consumers as well. Unfortunately none were allowed to fail, and the economic repercussions continue...
I'm pretty sure the record high bankruptcies is a indicator of how the consumer was allowed to fail where as the big banks were bailed out. Let's not beat around the bush just say what you want.
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Old 2010-06-02, 11:53   Link #7627
Vexx
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Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
I'm pretty sure the record high bankruptcies is a indicator of how the consumer was allowed to fail where as the big banks were bailed out. Let's not beat around the bush just say what you want.
Not to mention that personal bankruptcies were "reformed" a few years ago so that consumers couldn't actually get a chance to start over (unlike "the big boys").
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Old 2010-06-02, 12:55   Link #7628
Jinto
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
You know, I actually have a plan for this, but I don't know if it works.

My idea is to insert a weighted giant "condom" with its front clipped off, tie the clipped part to the pipe, then float the "condom" so it looks like a funnel. Then we can run vacuum pumps from ships or onshore facilities to pump the oil away, and have onsite pumps to pump water out of the funnel to accommodate the oil gushing out.
This is not even a medium term solution. I mean once there is bad/rough weather and the waves hit like 7-10 meters, you will have to abandon this approach. Besides part of the oil is like tar, its not easy to pump it through a flexible pipe.
I am not sure, but maybe they should just use a giant load of thermite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite) and seal this oil well with it. The oil that is coming out while the thermit is burning, will just burn/evaporate. The chemical reaction does not need air-oxygen to go on... Fe2O3 + 2Al -->→ 2Fe + Al2O3 + heat.

But maybe its too dangerous... I don't know...

"Although thermite is used to for welding underwater, in a haphazard ignition of thermite underwater, the molten iron produced will extract oxygen from water and generate hydrogen gas in a single-replacement reaction. This gas may, in turn, burn by combining with oxygen in the air."

Maybe this part explains, why a large amount of that stuff could be dangerous for ships above and the surrounding region in general.

Last edited by Jinto; 2010-06-02 at 13:21.
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Old 2010-06-02, 13:55   Link #7629
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
This is not even a medium term solution. I mean once there is bad/rough weather and the waves hit like 7-10 meters, you will have to abandon this approach. Besides part of the oil is like tar, its not easy to pump it through a flexible pipe.
I am not sure, but maybe they should just use a giant load of thermite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite) and seal this oil well with it. The oil that is coming out while the thermit is burning, will just burn/evaporate. The chemical reaction does not need air-oxygen to go on... Fe2O3 + 2Al -->→ 2Fe + Al2O3 + heat.

But maybe its too dangerous... I don't know...

"Although thermite is used to for welding underwater, in a haphazard ignition of thermite underwater, the molten iron produced will extract oxygen from water and generate hydrogen gas in a single-replacement reaction. This gas may, in turn, burn by combining with oxygen in the air."

Maybe this part explains, why a large amount of that stuff could be dangerous for ships above and the surrounding region in general.
The flexibility of a polymer "condom" could weather the waves and undercurrents since it is not fully solid. But yeah, the bad weather, if it really cooks up a large storm or a hurricane/typhoon, it would be serious trouble.

The thermite idea could be useful if it is supplied at a sustained rate rather than just dumping the whole lot at one time, by sealing area of the pipehole bit by bit. If it does extract oxygen from the water, it would be insufficient to start a fuel-air explosion because the hydrogen will react with the other gases, such as carbon dioxide under the high pressure in the area of the water. Besides the coldness and the higher water pressure at the depth may allow a faster entrophic reaction to conduct away the heat from the area, plus at that depth, the oxygen which floated up to the air surface may have been much less hot to react with the surface gases.

I would suggest they plug it with hydraulic concrete first down the pipe before the welding operation. This should take 2 weeks to one month to complete, but the pressure buildup of the oil inside the pipe could rupture a lower part of the pipe.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-06-02, 14:40   Link #7630
Jinto
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
The flexibility of a polymer "condom" could weather the waves and undercurrents since it is not fully solid. But yeah, the bad weather, if it really cooks up a large storm or a hurricane/typhoon, it would be serious trouble.
I was under the impression, that something (vessel) was floating on top to pump up the oil. It becomes harder for a ship to stay at a certain position, when there are high waves. But certainly I got your concept of doing this wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
The thermite idea could be useful if it is supplied at a sustained rate rather than just dumping the whole lot at one time, by sealing area of the pipehole bit by bit. If it does extract oxygen from the water, it would be insufficient to start a fuel-air explosion because the hydrogen will react with the other gases, such as carbon dioxide under the high pressure in the area of the water. Besides the coldness and the higher water pressure at the depth may allow a faster entrophic reaction to conduct away the heat from the area, plus at that depth, the oxygen which floated up to the air surface may have been much less hot to react with the surface gases.
I was more worried about the hydrogen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I would suggest they plug it with hydraulic concrete first down the pipe before the welding operation. This should take 2 weeks to one month to complete, but the pressure buildup of the oil inside the pipe could rupture a lower part of the pipe.
Maybe they could just fill the whole pipe with the iron up to 100m deep. Something like a heat resistent injection needle would be needed (some device that withstands 2500°C and is thinner then the pipe itself).
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Old 2010-06-02, 14:58   Link #7631
monir
cho~ kakkoii
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
Maybe they could just fill the whole pipe with the iron up to 100m deep. Something like a heat resistent injection needle would be needed (some device that withstands 2500°C and is thinner then the pipe itself).
While that is definitely an idea, it doesn't sound very practical especially since time is the constraint.

As far as I understand, their plan is to drill another hole and start pumping the oil instead of trying to seal that mouth. The argument is that the rate of expulsion slows down from that mouth. What they are not talking about is the risk of another failure which got us into this mess to begin with. The risk is higher this time around since the hurricane season is upon us. Even then we are looking at another two months before such plan can materialize.

I also wonder how the tar will affect the rain in that region. There will be some crazy chemicals in those moisture and I'm sure it won't be unusual too see sporadic acid rain here and there with the right kind of mix.
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Old 2010-06-02, 15:32   Link #7632
Agito Akiyama
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Join Date: May 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
Coolest car evar.
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Old 2010-06-02, 17:43   Link #7633
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
The Government had a role in this whole crisis. As did the lending industry, and the consumers as well. Unfortunately none were allowed to fail, and the economic repercussions continue...
Several investment firms were allowed to fail. The bigger companies weren't because as bad as things are now, they would have been much, much worse if companies like AIG went under. Of course I already know there's nothing I can say or do, short manipulating timelines, that will convince you.

Though I do agree with you that it wasn't just the fault of the lending firms. Everyone had a hand in causing this, from the government failing to put proper regulations in place or even adequately enforce the ones that were there, to the companies that attempted game the system by treating bad debt as a commodity among many many other things, to the consumers who attempted to live far beyond their means by buying everything on credit. The only question is how much of the blame each party has. I put the majority of it on the financial companies and their putting short term profit over long term sustainability.
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Old 2010-06-02, 17:44   Link #7634
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
I was under the impression, that something (vessel) was floating on top to pump up the oil. It becomes harder for a ship to stay at a certain position, when there are high waves. But certainly I got your concept of doing this wrong.
I was thinking along the lines of the area of a cone where it is larger at the top, so the total area on top could be significantly larger than that of the bottom. The problem is how are we going to get enough polymer to stitch this giant thing together, and how are the feminists going to take this in stride.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
I was more worried about the hydrogen.
The hydrogen should already be in their ionised form of H+ when released from the water and ionically attracted to the anions in the solution itself. Even if it does form H2 bonds, the entropy effect will reduce the saturation upon reaching the surface, combined with the idea chemical equilibrium as it travels from a higher to lower pressure, the amount escaping at sea level should be minimal.

Unless a whole lot of thermite is dumped and used at the same time. Then again, the volume of surrounding water at that point should be more than enough to channel away the heat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
While that is definitely an idea, it doesn't sound very practical especially since time is the constraint.

As far as I understand, their plan is to drill another hole and start pumping the oil instead of trying to seal that mouth. The argument is that the rate of expulsion slows down from that mouth. What they are not talking about is the risk of another failure which got us into this mess to begin with. The risk is higher this time around since the hurricane season is upon us. Even then we are looking at another two months before such plan can materialize.

I also wonder how the tar will affect the rain in that region. There will be some crazy chemicals in those moisture and I'm sure it won't be unusual too see sporadic acid rain here and there with the right kind of mix.
Eh no, tar is relatively chemically stable as compared to the less dense derivatives of crude oil (that is why it is used for laying roads and gives smoking rehab doctors a headache). Usually in organic chemistry, the density is often determined by the complexity of the bonds, so it shouldn't be a problem.

The reason why crude oil floats is due to the pre-distillation density being being very much lower than that of the ocean's water (which isn't very pure in the first place, thus higher density due to impurities). During the fractional distillation process, tar and bitumen sink to the bottom of the tank as they are significantly denser than the other derivatives.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-06-02, 18:11   Link #7635
Roger Rambo
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
Though I do agree with you that it wasn't just the fault of the lending firms. Everyone had a hand in causing this, from the government failing to put proper regulations in place or even adequately enforce the ones that were there, to the companies that attempted game the system by treating bad debt as a commodity among many many other things, to the consumers who attempted to live far beyond their means by buying everything on credit. The only question is how much of the blame each party has. I put the majority of it on the financial companies and their putting short term profit over long term sustainability.
A homeless guy with an alcohol problem is sitting in his beloved shack. A smart banker drives by in a Mercedes and offers to loan him a million dollars at ten percent intrest. The homeless guy accepts and the banker is happy because he thinks he'll make allot of money off the interest. One year later, the Banker is ruined because the Homeless guy can't pay the money back. The alcoholic homeless guy is now even more bankrupt than he was before, having lost his shack.

Now, who exactly in this situation comes off a dumber? The guy offering a million dollar loan to a homeless drunk, or the homeless drunk accepting a million dollar loan?




If all these buisness people are going to walk around congratulating each other about how smart they are, then they sure as hell better hold themselves to a higher standard than the people they're "supposedly" smarter than.
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Old 2010-06-02, 18:13   Link #7636
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
A homeless guy with an alcohol problem is sitting in his beloved shack. A smart banker drives by in a Mercedes and offers to loan him a million dollars at ten percent intrest. The homeless guy accepts and the banker is happy because he thinks he'll make allot of money off the interest. One year later, the Banker is ruined because the Homeless guy can't pay the money back. The alcoholic homeless guy is now even more bankrupt than he was before, having lost his shack.

Now, who exactly in this situation comes off a dumber? The guy offering a million dollar loan to a homeless drunk, or the homeless drunk accepting a million dollar loan?
It seems that the banker is playing a numbers game rather than a qualitative analysis one.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-06-03, 01:14   Link #7637
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
It seems the banker failed to do what every other banker did in that mess: camouflage the debt and sell it to some other sucker.

Last edited by Anh_Minh; 2010-06-03 at 16:49.
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Old 2010-06-03, 02:09   Link #7638
Arbitres
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Quote:
It seems the banker failed to do what every other banker else did in that mess: camouflage the debt and sell it to some other sucker.
There are things called loopholes after all. Then again... it's both their faults. My perspective? Serves them right. The homeless for being a drunkard and being greedy. The banker for being shallow-minded and greedy.

Oh well.
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Old 2010-06-03, 03:01   Link #7639
0utf0xZer0
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
Ex-US Vice President Al Gore to split from wife Tipper
40 years together and now this. This is sad.
I bet his wife was thinking, "He spent so much time campaigning for global warming and forgot about warming my body!"
Maybe she just got ticked about the mess.

Should have taken some cues from how my mom convinced me to clean my room: if I didn't clean it, she would. Which means I would have no clue where anything was afterwards.

(Yeah, I keep things pretty clean now. Although that's also because I like to keep things classy... or at least as classy as you can make a room with two life sized catgirl wallscrolls.)
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Old 2010-06-03, 03:02   Link #7640
Azuma Denton
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Apple boss defends conditions at iPhone factory

Hmm, i am not sure it was all suicide.
13 "suicides" this year already?
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