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Old 2010-06-08, 21:26   Link #7741
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
it is now official that NK is completely and utterly nuts?
Now is not the time for the Norks to go and antagonize big brother Dragon. They're pretty much the only people in the region remotely sympathetic to them at this point, especially with the torpedo incident.
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Old 2010-06-08, 22:04   Link #7742
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I can't help but feeling that NK did something so incredibly stupid. Its true, the last thing they want to do is anger China. Without Chinese backing, NK may be very very vulnerable to SK / US force.
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Old 2010-06-08, 23:08   Link #7743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClockWorkAngel View Post
I can't help but feeling that NK did something so incredibly stupid. Its true, the last thing they want to do is anger China. Without Chinese backing, NK may be very very vulnerable to SK / US force.
North Korea still has their whole threatening Seoul with massed artillery thing and nukes to act as a deterrent. Even with Chinese supporting the effort against North Korea, a war would be bloody. Perhaps an even bigger deterrent is the expense of cleaning up the mess that is North Korea after they're defeated though.
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Old 2010-06-09, 00:14   Link #7744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
North Korea still has their whole threatening Seoul with massed artillery thing and nukes to act as a deterrent. Even with Chinese supporting the effort against North Korea, a war would be bloody. Perhaps an even bigger deterrent is the expense of cleaning up the mess that is North Korea after they're defeated though.
You are probably right on this one. Fighting NK will make that place very messy. They have got nothing to lose anyway, even if they lose the war.

However, the collateral damage on the SK's side and even Japan could be disastrous. US doesn't even have enough funds to themselves to help rebuild SK.
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Old 2010-06-09, 06:53   Link #7745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
North Korea still has their whole threatening Seoul with massed artillery thing and nukes to act as a deterrent. Even with Chinese supporting the effort against North Korea, a war would be bloody. Perhaps an even bigger deterrent is the expense of cleaning up the mess that is North Korea after they're defeated though.
The war might be bad, but the aftermath is much worse. Even if the world defeats NK, the world might face a problem with the NK people. Most of the population have been indoctrinated to believe that all foreign invaders are out there to kill em so most of them will try to kill any foreigners that come there to help their country. It will be like the Iraqi Insurgency except everyone including the old & the young will try to kill you. Even if we manage to end their animosity against us (either peacefully or forcefully), the people aren't ready yet for the outside world and might suffer a culture shock since they been living in their 1950's ideal for too long. They don't even know we landed on the moon or who Nelson Mandela is! This culture shock might lead them to use drugs, which in turn may rise a drug cartel in their country, which might form a future North Korean Mafia just like how the Russian Mafiya was born after the fall of the Soviet Union.



Yeah, i'm over estimating things. But still, if there's gonna be a war, the ones who will suffer the most are the people.
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Old 2010-06-09, 07:01   Link #7746
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The people are ALWAYS the ones who suffer the most in any conflict.
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Old 2010-06-09, 07:26   Link #7747
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Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
The war might be bad, but the aftermath is much worse. Even if the world defeats NK, the world might face a problem with the NK people. Most of the population have been indoctrinated to believe that all foreign invaders are out there to kill em so most of them will try to kill any foreigners that come there to help their country. It will be like the Iraqi Insurgency except everyone including the old & the young will try to kill you. Even if we manage to end their animosity against us (either peacefully or forcefully), the people aren't ready yet for the outside world and might suffer a culture shock since they been living in their 1950's ideal for too long. They don't even know we landed on the moon or who Nelson Mandela is! This culture shock might lead them to use drugs, which in turn may rise a drug cartel in their country, which might form a future North Korean Mafia just like how the Russian Mafiya was born after the fall of the Soviet Union.
I don't see this as relevant, given that such a shock will occur sooner or later, since all regimes fall eventually.
As far as I'm concerned, decisively crushing NK and its citizens' morale, public execution of its leaders, immediate reform of the educational system, and sequestering of those who try to spout out the old propaganda will work better than slow change that runs into persistent resistance.
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Old 2010-06-09, 10:39   Link #7748
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Rising China wages may end cheap labour
Quote:
Beijing (June 9): The days of endless cheap labour in the "workshop of the world" could be numbered as a shortage of workers and government fears of social unrest drive up wages in China, experts say.

A spate of suicides at Taiwanese high-tech firm Foxconn and an unprecedented strike at Honda's car-parts factory in southern China suggest that employers can no longer take their workforces for granted after decades of rapid growth.

Beijing has reacted to the labour unrest by launching a round of minimum-wage hikes across the nation, reflecting concern among top leaders that frustrated workers could trigger wider social turmoil.

Nearly a quarter of Chinese employees have not had a raise in five years, according to the All-China Federation of Trade Unions. Inflation has stayed low, despite blistering economic growth during the period.

But IT giant Foxconn — which counts heavyweights Apple, Dell, Sony and Panasonic among its clients — has now given staff a 70 per cent pay rise after 11 suicides among its vast Chinese workforce.

Honda, Japan's No. 2 carmaker, last week offered a 24 per cent rise to workers to end a crippling strike that had brought the company's vehicle production in China to a halt for more than a week.

"If you are a factory owner in Guangdong, you have got a few things working against you now and you have definitely got to start making it a bit more attractive to make labour come to you," said Mr Brian Jackson, a senior analyst at the Royal Bank of Canada in Hong Kong.

"All the indications are this is something that is going to continue in the months ahead — assuming you don't have a big impact from European problems on the manufacturing sector," he said, alluding to euro-zone economic worries.

AFP
South-east Asia eyes nuclear energy to meet power demand
Quote:
Singapore (June 9): Despite safety fears, South-east Asia's energy-hungry economies are exploring the nuclear option to keep up with escalating power demand in a region of more than half a billion people.

Vietnam plans to make its first nuclear plant operational in 10 years, while Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand are all exploring the feasibility of tapping atomic energy.

"Everybody wants air-con, everybody wants the latest appliances, and all these translate into demand for electricity," said Mr Anthony Jude, director of the energy and water division at the Manila-based Asian Development Bank.

Detractors pointed to South-east Asia's lack of experience in nuclear power and expressed doubts about the safety culture in a region prone to natural disasters such as earthquakes and volcanic eruptions.

The Philippines built a nuclear plant in the 1970s but it was never operated commercially because of safety concerns and alleged corruption in the contract process.

But the concerns are surmountable, experts said. "You cannot say nuclear power plants in South-east Asia will necessarily be more dangerous than anywhere else," said Ms Martine Letts, deputy director with the Sydney-based Lowy Institute for International Policy.

She pointed to international institutions such as the World Association of Nuclear Operators to get the region up to speed on nuclear-power safety.

Environmental group Greenpeace believes the region would be better off tapping renewable sources such as geothermal and solar power due to its vulnerability to natural disasters.

"What's the reason to have nuclear power plants if we have so much renewable energy potential in this region?" Mr Arif Fiyanto, Greenpeace's Jakarta-based regional climate and energy campaigner, told AFP.

AFP
^ What a travel brochure might say in 2050:

Welcome to South-east Asia, where the sun is bright, the seas are warm and the people glow in the dark.
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Old 2010-06-09, 10:42   Link #7749
Noctis Lucis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Rising China wages may end cheap labour


South-east Asia eyes nuclear energy to meet power demand


^ What a travel brochure might say in 2050:

Welcome to South-east Asia, where the sun is bright, the seas are warm and the people glow in the dark.
Singapore? Nuclear energy? Where's the n-waste going to? The SE Asia region is generally hostile to Singapore. Except Vietnam. So... it's wiser to go solar, right...?
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Old 2010-06-09, 10:52   Link #7750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noctis Lucis View Post
Singapore? Nuclear energy? Where's the n-waste going to? The SE Asia region is generally hostile to Singapore. Except Vietnam. So... it's wiser to go solar, right...?
Well the lack of space problem is worse regarding solar energy... since even if you were to cover the whole surface of Singapore into a solar plant, You'd get only a fraction of a nuclear facility output (at tremendous cost).

If they don't want to go nuclear, they can still stick to cleaner coal and natural gas, but for those they'll need a foreign supply and still other facilities, like port terminals, pipelines, etc...

I remember my last stay in the Philippines, and the viability of the power supply was a recurring topic in newspapers. At least there geothermal energy provide a significant base supply (one quarter I believe), but decades of limited investment resulted in the current situation, where the capital has to be supplied with a complement of diesel generator barges to fulfill the demand.

I have no doubts that other countries in SEA, with their growing and power hungry economies, share similar concerns (especially since they do not all have geothermal resources).
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Old 2010-06-09, 11:54   Link #7751
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
The war might be bad, but the aftermath is much worse. Even if the world defeats NK, the world might face a problem with the NK people. Most of the population have been indoctrinated to believe that all foreign invaders are out there to kill em so most of them will try to kill any foreigners that come there to help their country. It will be like the Iraqi Insurgency except everyone including the old & the young will try to kill you. Even if we manage to end their animosity against us (either peacefully or forcefully), the people aren't ready yet for the outside world and might suffer a culture shock since they been living in their 1950's ideal for too long. They don't even know we landed on the moon or who Nelson Mandela is! This culture shock might lead them to use drugs, which in turn may rise a drug cartel in their country, which might form a future North Korean Mafia just like how the Russian Mafiya was born after the fall of the Soviet Union.



Yeah, i'm over estimating things. But still, if there's gonna be a war, the ones who will suffer the most are the people.
huh? where they hell did you get this form? People are starving in NK, no matter how much brain washing they know exactly who to blame for their parents and childen starving to death. there wouldn't be any insurgents after the NK government falls. There will be one huge headache for South Korea to integrate NK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMvS View Post
Well the lack of space problem is worse regarding solar energy... since even if you were to cover the whole surface of Singapore into a solar plant, You'd get only a fraction of a nuclear facility output (at tremendous cost).

If they don't want to go nuclear, they can still stick to cleaner coal and natural gas, but for those they'll need a foreign supply and still other facilities, like port terminals, pipelines, etc...

I remember my last stay in the Philippines, and the viability of the power supply was a recurring topic in newspapers. At least there geothermal energy provide a significant base supply (one quarter I believe), but decades of limited investment resulted in the current situation, where the capital has to be supplied with a complement of diesel generator barges to fulfill the demand.

I have no doubts that other countries in SEA, with their growing and power hungry economies, share similar concerns (especially since they do not all have geothermal resources).
Since Singapore is a island how about Tidal power?
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Old 2010-06-09, 12:55   Link #7752
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
South-east Asia eyes nuclear energy to meet power demand


^ What a travel brochure might say in 2050:

Welcome to South-east Asia, where the sun is bright, the seas are warm and the people glow in the dark.
Does that Greenpeace guy study science and geography in the first place?

Geothermal energy in the region is difficult to tap due to the volcano's activity : usually they are tapped from low-damage active volcanoes or dormant ones. As for solar power, alot of land area is required and that is what SEA is lacking due to the island fragmentation.

Not to say that I am skeptical, however I am seeing alot of loopholes in the statements of these people.
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Old 2010-06-09, 19:30   Link #7753
JMvS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
Since Singapore is a island how about Tidal power?
Well the problem is that sea =/= even source of tidal power, as for tide to become usable as a source of energy, you have to get sufficient tide amplitude, which are extremely dependent on a lots of local factors (rivers, seafloor topography, coast shape, salinity, etc...). Also depending on the technology, you'd have to build extensive damn and reservoir, which would hardly fit in space challenged Singapore.

I don't know whether or not the water around Singapore hold any potential, but for sure I know that it would doubtfully be compatible with it being the 1st commercial harbor in the World.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Does that Greenpeace guy study science and geography in the first place?

Geothermal energy in the region is difficult to tap due to the volcano's activity : usually they are tapped from low-damage active volcanoes or dormant ones. As for solar power, alot of land area is required and that is what SEA is lacking due to the island fragmentation.

Not to say that I am skeptical, however I am seeing alot of loopholes in the statements of these people.
Exactly. So many of those activist utterly fails at grasping the context and all the pro and cons that goes with each technology.
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Old 2010-06-09, 23:11   Link #7754
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Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post


Yeah, i'm over estimating things. But still, if there's gonna be a war, the ones who will suffer the most are the people.
Quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/10/wo...agewanted=1&hp

It hardly seemed that life could get worse. And then, one Saturday afternoon last November, his sister burst into his apartment in Chongjin with shocking news: the North Korean government had decided to drastically devalue the nation’s currency. The family’s life savings, about $1,560, had been reduced to about $30.

Last month the construction worker sat in a safe house in this bustling northern Chinese city, lamenting years of useless sacrifice. Vegetables for his parents, his wife’s asthma medicine, the navy track suit his 15-year-old daughter craved — all were forsworn on the theory that, even in North Korea, the future was worth saving for.
“Ai!” he exclaimed, cursing between sobs. “How we worked to save that money! Thinking about it makes me go crazy.”
North Koreans are used to struggle and heartbreak. But the Nov. 30 currency devaluation, apparently an attempt to prop up a foundering state-run economy, was for some the worst disaster since a famine that killed hundreds of thousands in the mid-1990s.

.......

The former teacher gave all she had. After her creditors stripped her of all her money, she said, she walked across the frozen Tumen River at night and into China to seek help from her relatives there. Famished and terrified, she said she banged randomly on doors until a stranger helped her contact them.
Now safe in her relatives’ home, she said, she marvels over how they enjoy delicacies like cucumbers in winter. But temporarily deserting her son and daughter, both in their mid-20s, has left her so guilt-ridden that she sometimes cannot swallow the food set in front of her. “I don’t know whether my children have managed to get some money, or whether they have starved to death,” she said, her eyes brimming with tears.

i am not sure a war could be any worst then what the North korean are going through right now.
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Old 2010-06-10, 02:45   Link #7755
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UK alarmed by Obama attack on BP

Given that BP is a major UK company they probably feel that criticism by the President of the USA(he's looking for someone's ass to kick) is like an attack on Britain itself IMO. Then again Obama who is under pressure himself over the handling of the spill is no doubt trying to divert the blame.
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Old 2010-06-10, 03:59   Link #7756
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Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post
Then again Obama who is under pressure himself over the handling of the spill is no doubt trying to divert the blame.
Then again BP, who is at fault for both the spill and the inadequate response, might be looking to British nationalism to protect them from having to pay for all the damage they caused.
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Old 2010-06-10, 10:34   Link #7757
Roger Rambo
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It's questionable how effective a North Korean resistance movement would be after the regimes collapse. Right now North Korea is highly dependent on foreign food imports to survive. In a situation of the government being destroyed and an occupation ensuing, they'd be totally dependent. I'm not sure how an insurgency could operate under those conditions.

Especially if the South Koreans get especially pissed at the North Koreans in the aftermath of the war. There's a degree of sentimentality now regarding Korean unification, but I don't know how much that will hold up if a good part of Seol got reduced to rubble. The amount of restraint they'd feel compelled to use while putting down a potential insurgency after a war is debatable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
North Korea still has their whole threatening Seoul with massed artillery thing and nukes to act as a deterrent. Even with Chinese supporting the effort against North Korea, a war would be bloody. Perhaps an even bigger deterrent is the expense of cleaning up the mess that is North Korea after they're defeated though.
That's why nobody is willing to even just ignore North Korea. Without the external support the regime would collapse, and even if a shot wasn't fired it'd leave the Chinese and the South Koreans a monumental mess to clean up.
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Old 2010-06-10, 10:38   Link #7758
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMvS View Post
Well the problem is that sea =/= even source of tidal power, as for tide to become usable as a source of energy, you have to get sufficient tide amplitude, which are extremely dependent on a lots of local factors (rivers, seafloor topography, coast shape, salinity, etc...). Also depending on the technology, you'd have to build extensive damn and reservoir, which would hardly fit in space challenged Singapore.
We built a dam and made a freshwater lake, then surround the place with casinos and a sky park.

But to build an EXTENSIVE one to harness tidal power, it's not exactly possible, unless we sink the entire stretch of Indonesia and Philippines to let the bigger waves come in.
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Old 2010-06-10, 11:15   Link #7759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post
Given that BP is a major UK company they probably feel that criticism by the President of the USA(he's looking for someone's ass to kick) is like an attack on Britain itself IMO. Then again Obama who is under pressure himself over the handling of the spill is no doubt trying to divert the blame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joojoobees View Post
Then again BP, who is at fault for both the spill and the inadequate response, might be looking to British nationalism to protect them from having to pay for all the damage they caused.
BP chief executive Tony Hayward and his family are already under police protection as of Tuesday (June 8), after receiving threats and hate mail from campaigners. So, there's no need for national sympathy in that regard.

Moreover, I was in England just last week, and my gut feeling is that there isn't even much public sympathy for either the company or its gaffe-prone CEO. Britain, like much of Western and Central Europe, has a long tradition of labour and social distrust of Big Business, and it isn't normally inclined to coddle major companies, at least not to the same extent as the United States.

This position is already readily apparent in the referenced article, which quoted PM David Cameron's statement: "Ultimately it's a matter for the company to sort this issue out."

That said, the British are very worried about one important problem: the potential impact on their pension funds.
Quote:
London (June 2): The steep slide in BP's share price is bad news for British pension funds — the vast majority of which hold a stake in the company.

Defined benefit pension schemes are typically thought to have around 1.5 per cent of their assets invested directly in BP, accounting for around 6 per cent of all the money they hold in British equities. But some funds may hold considerably more.

For example, a pension scheme that tries to replicate the performance of the FTSE 100 would have around 6 per cent of its total assets invested in the company.

BP's share price has now fallen by around a third since the Deepwater Horizon rig exploded and sank on April 20, killing 11 workers.

It is difficult to put a figure on exactly how much this will have wiped off the value of pension schemes, but it is thought to be hundreds of millions of pounds, if not billions of pounds, once the impact on defined contribution schemes and personal pensions is also factored in.

THE INDEPENDENT
It's worth noting that BP is still considered one of the bluest of the blue chips on the FTSE 100. It was the largest company on the index by market capitalisation (117 billion pounds, or US$170 billion; it's larger than the GDP of some countries) as of March 31, just one month before the Deepwater explosion.

It hires 80,300 employees worldwide, operates 22,400 petrol stations, owns 16 refineries churning out 2.3 million barrels of refined oil daily. It has a retail presence in the US via the convenience-store group Ampm and, more importantly, US investors own 39 per cent of the company, including 25 institutional and 14 big individual investors. So, if BP falls, US investors will feel the pain as much as British investors. (Source: BBC)

Simply put, BP is another one of those companies that are simply "too big to fail" — it's a very safe to assume that if the worst were to happen, it wouldn't be London alone that runs around like a headless chicken...

Still, even after losing around 45 per cent of its value since April 21, BP remains comfortably within the top 10 companies on the FTSE 100. More encouragingly, people are beginning to buy BP stock again, since it seems the company is finally starting to get the oil spill under control.

Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2010-06-10 at 11:32.
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Old 2010-06-10, 12:00   Link #7760
Roger Rambo
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The real question is how BP will fare when it actually has to start paying out the damages. This will depend on how bad things really are.
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