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Old 2010-06-24, 12:56   Link #7941
ganbaru
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I am placing my bets on Afghanistan being the next Vietnam.
It's most likely, unless they find a way to win this war ( and of course establishing what would be considered a victory could help... )
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Old 2010-06-24, 13:06   Link #7942
Kamui4356
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
to listen to allen west say it, the REASON why there is no end in sight, is because the people running the war are doing it without having a real clue about what it is they are trying to actually achieve
and because they fail to notice that their own rules of engagement are being abused by the enemy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhOzIQ1-CmQ

don't get me wrong, i get the point of rules of engagement
but if it gets to the point where they are actively ENCOURAGING your enemy to commit war crimes, then something is very wrong.
And how exactly would you like to see it handled?
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Old 2010-06-24, 13:29   Link #7943
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
And how exactly would you like to see it handled?
Renounce the napalm treaty and level the entire place. *sarcastic*

There isn't really much of a real solution to the Afghan problem other than to secure Kabul wholly, then leave. The whole place is in a mess.
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Old 2010-06-24, 13:53   Link #7944
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
And how exactly would you like to see it handled?
1)if your enemy knows how you conduct yourself, conduct yourself differently (change troop locations all the time, and introduce newer weapons into the fight)
2)if you see an enemy using civilians as human shields, don't let that fact deter you from attacking them (if they see that it works, they will keep on doing it)
3)coordinate between your NATO allies to insure that EVERYONE is following the same lead, and not their own individual orders.
4)give more control to the soldier in the field, so that he doesn't have to wait for confirmation before attacking the enemy.
5)allow the soldiers to laser designate targets at their own discretion (they can see better then the guy at HQ)
6)stop allowing the use of lawfare against your troops by backing your troops up 100% on their decisions at all times, and only conducting investigations yourself
7)take over poppy fields and buy them up instead of letting the taliban do it (you can destory the poppy for all that it matters, just don't let taliban use it)
8)holy places are NOT fire proof, so make if perfecly clear that anyone firing from a church of a masque will be fired upon without a second thought)
9)if you suspect that a "civilian" is aiding the enemy during combat, fire at them even if they aren't armed (at the very least, to scare them away)
10)US and NATO bases and installations are classified areas, and anyone observing them is to be arrested and questioned.
11)there is NO SUCH THING AS AN ENEMY STRONGHOLD (at least not for more then a few minutes). if you know where they are, you attack immediately with full force.
the enemy must NEVER be allowed a single nights rest.
if your enemy has even a single place where they feel safe, then your doing it wrong.

12)understand that attempting to form democracy is much more complex in that part of the world
afganistan is just a collection of tribes who all share a specific territory, so if you want your newly formed goverment to have control, you start with divide and conquer tactics (reward the allies, and crush the enemies of the new government)
you won't have to do this for very long, since word gets around very fast that people who follow you get rewarded and people who oppose you get dead.
the middle east is a place where the strong rules.
show that YOU are the strong, and people would rather become your allies then your enemies.

but most importantly, cancel any plans on leaving any time soon
there is no such thing as a set DATE for a pull out.
if your dealing with an enemy that simply needs to outlast you, then he can just wait until you leave, then make his move.
the US should declare that they would ALWAYS maintain troops and bases in afghanistan, even AFTER the battle is over although it would be in a lesser capacity (like in saudi arabia)
most of the work would be done by the afghan troops, but you'll always be there.
if people think that your going to leave soon, and that the taliban will just take over again, then they aren't going to work with you or your local allies.

if you want to win the war against the taliban and their ilk, you can't afford to have your presence seen as a temporary thing.
if it is, then they just have to wait until you leave.
if they know that you aren't GOING to leave, then they will have to choose between going to war with you (which is better for you, since you can mow them down) or to give up.
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Old 2010-06-24, 15:39   Link #7945
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
1)if your enemy knows how you conduct yourself, conduct yourself differently (change troop locations all the time, and introduce newer weapons into the fight)
2)if you see an enemy using civilians as human shields, don't let that fact deter you from attacking them (if they see that it works, they will keep on doing it)
3)coordinate between your NATO allies to insure that EVERYONE is following the same lead, and not their own individual orders.
4)give more control to the soldier in the field, so that he doesn't have to wait for confirmation before attacking the enemy.
5)allow the soldiers to laser designate targets at their own discretion (they can see better then the guy at HQ)
6)stop allowing the use of lawfare against your troops by backing your troops up 100% on their decisions at all times, and only conducting investigations yourself
7)take over poppy fields and buy them up instead of letting the taliban do it (you can destory the poppy for all that it matters, just don't let taliban use it)
8)holy places are NOT fire proof, so make if perfecly clear that anyone firing from a church of a masque will be fired upon without a second thought)
9)if you suspect that a "civilian" is aiding the enemy during combat, fire at them even if they aren't armed (at the very least, to scare them away)
10)US and NATO bases and installations are classified areas, and anyone observing them is to be arrested and questioned.
11)there is NO SUCH THING AS AN ENEMY STRONGHOLD (at least not for more then a few minutes). if you know where they are, you attack immediately with full force.
the enemy must NEVER be allowed a single nights rest.
if your enemy has even a single place where they feel safe, then your doing it wrong.

12)understand that attempting to form democracy is much more complex in that part of the world
afganistan is just a collection of tribes who all share a specific territory, so if you want your newly formed goverment to have control, you start with divide and conquer tactics (reward the allies, and crush the enemies of the new government)
you won't have to do this for very long, since word gets around very fast that people who follow you get rewarded and people who oppose you get dead.
the middle east is a place where the strong rules.
show that YOU are the strong, and people would rather become your allies then your enemies.

but most importantly, cancel any plans on leaving any time soon
there is no such thing as a set DATE for a pull out.
if your dealing with an enemy that simply needs to outlast you, then he can just wait until you leave, then make his move.
the US should declare that they would ALWAYS maintain troops and bases in afghanistan, even AFTER the battle is over although it would be in a lesser capacity (like in saudi arabia)
most of the work would be done by the afghan troops, but you'll always be there.
if people think that your going to leave soon, and that the taliban will just take over again, then they aren't going to work with you or your local allies.

if you want to win the war against the taliban and their ilk, you can't afford to have your presence seen as a temporary thing.
if it is, then they just have to wait until you leave.
if they know that you aren't GOING to leave, then they will have to choose between going to war with you (which is better for you, since you can mow them down) or to give up.
Your strategy seems to be the Israeli strategy. That arguably works (in the short term, at least) when your home country is being attacked and acts out of self-defense.

There's a major flaw with this strategy for the United States in Afghanistan. It's the strategy that was used previously and it did not meet with good results. We are trying to win over the Afghan people. The methods you've described place an emphasis on killing the Taliban. Killing innocent civilians will have a number of negative effects:

1) The United States will be seen as a conqueror, rather than an ally. They already have a very unstable trust relationship with us.

2) Dead innocents incites feelings of hatred against the killer. Where do you think that the Taliban recruits from - people who are peace-loving and friendly to the United States? No, they're recruiting the people who feel that the US is evil for killing innocents. The threat of death will not deter these people from taking action against the US.

3) Retaliating over every little thing is ridiculous. A terrorist in every true term could fire a rocket from a mosque packed with innocents. If we followed your advice, the mosque and its innocent inhabitants would be burned, and the US would have a trust crisis on its hands. We would have been deliberately manipulated by the Taliban. Negative sentiments against the United States are good for them.

I'd also add that in this regard, I wish that Israel would be a little bit less predictable in how it retaliates to attacks, and that it should show more restraint.

4) We cannot take and control areas with our own forces. What you said about the poppy fields has already been tried. We can't burn the fields, because that's there way of life. Our forces have tried paying farmers to do something else, but once the soldiers leave then the Taliban returns and forces the farmers to keep going.

We're not trying to eliminate the Taliban. That's impossible without committing genocide (and we all know that would probably result in the creation of new "terrorist" organizations, that were all out to get the United States). We're trying to pacify Afghanistan. You don't do that purely with force.
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Old 2010-06-24, 15:50   Link #7946
bladeofdarkness
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i'm not saying kill anyone who looks suspicious.
i'm saying that one should make it clear that hiding behind civilians is a useless tactic, because it wont stop you.

the people who WANT to see the US as a conquerer, will always see it as a conquerer
the key is to make the people who ARE your allies, seem more powerful for their alliance with you.
the choice should be "join the government" who is much more powerful or "help the taliban" who are less powerful
the US should be the "power" part.

the mistake in what you said is "paying them to do other things"
don't try to change how they live
don't try to burn the fields.
BUY the poppy yourself.
doesn't matter what you DO with it, so long as the taliban can't use it.

pacifying Afghanistan means making the central government the actual RULING body in the country
its not easy, but its doable
you just have to sufficiently weaken the enemy, and sufficiently strengthen the government forces
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Old 2010-06-24, 17:00   Link #7947
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
i'm not saying kill anyone wearing a towel
Please don't speak so disrespectfully of other cultures. That sort of disrespect is partly what fuels those opinions of people claiming that Israel wants to commit mass genocide against Arabs (among other such nonsense).

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
i'm saying that one should make it clear that hiding behind civilians is a useless tactic, because it wont stop you.
But of course it will stop us. It should stop anyone. One lone terrorist among hundreds of innocents - wouldn't that stop almost anyone? How about one among a thousand?

Either way, it doesn't matter. Your focus - and the USA's old focus - was on defeating the Taliban by confronting the Taliban directly. The proper focus, which is what we're doing now, is to hack away at the Taliban (and other hostile forces) yet not give them the full focus. Our true focus is to let the Afghanistan people build a stable society, one in which the people are content enough not to become militants. That has always been our end-goal. If we can accomplish that, the Taliban and other militants will wither away because they will not be able to find people who want to join their cause.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
the people who WANT to see the US as a conquerer, will always see it as a conquerer
the key is to make the people who ARE your allies, seem more powerful for their alliance with you.
the choice should be "join the government" who is much more powerful or "help the taliban" who are less powerful
the US should be the "power" part.
One thing I will agree with you on is the power element. This is the major difference between the Middle East and the West - how power is perceived. However, you're still making it out to be more simple than it really is. People in Afghanistan were not cowed by the Russian military's invasion (which arguably offered less humane tactics than the American forces), and they are certainly not any more afraid of the American military. If you choose the "might makes right" path, you'll simply be giving yourself one of two options: give up, or fight them to their death. That's not a situation that we want to get into.

While you're right that people who want to make the USA out as some sort of villain will do so regardless of what action is taken, there are plenty of people who have no opinion. We do not want to turn those people against us or make them suspicious of what we're doing there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
the mistake in what you said is "paying them to do other things"
don't try to change how they live
don't try to burn the fields.
BUY the poppy yourself.
doesn't matter what you DO with it, so long as the taliban can't use it.
I don't remember what Israel's stance on drug use was, but in America we have banned virtually all recreational drugs. We have a very conservative portion of the population, as well. People are already unhappy about how much the war is costing us - finding out that taxpayer money is going into buying drug materials would be very, very unpopular. Remember, options are limited at least in part by what the public opinion is. As restrictive as it can be, that's a good thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
pacifying Afghanistan means making the central government the actual RULING body in the country
its not easy, but its doable
you just have to sufficiently weaken the enemy, and sufficiently strengthen the government forces
The United States has a history of meddling with other nations and ultimately creating brutal dictatorships, that were then toppled and replaced by leaders that were antagonistic to us. Americans may not be the best at world history on average, but many people are quick to remind others of that past. We don't want to repeat that in Afghanistan. For better or for worse, the Afghan government must resemble ours, or else the American people will entirely reject the situation.

Unlike Israel's situation, this is a war of choice. We claim that we were attacked and so we went over there, but the response was arguably overblown. They are not at our border, firing rockets onto our soil regularly. The situation is very different, and simply being there is costing the country a lot of money every day.
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Old 2010-06-24, 17:13   Link #7948
bladeofdarkness
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Age: 30
1st
i'm not talking as an israeli, i'm talking as a person who follows the news
and i'm seeing mistakes being made that cost american lives for stupid reasons (believe it or not, we actually LIKE americans )
sorry for being offensive (it was meant to be a joke, i'll remove it)

2nd
if the terrorist know that using THEIR OWN CIVILIANS as shields is a winning strategy, they will keep doing it.
war criminals shouldn't be REWARDED for their crimes by letting it work.

3rd
either burn the poppy AFTER you buy it, or convert it to morpheme
just make sure the Taliban can't use them

4th
your already THERE
is pulling out an option at this point ?
if not, then you need to rethink.
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Old 2010-06-24, 19:46   Link #7949
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
1st
i'm not talking as an israeli, i'm talking as a person who follows the news
and i'm seeing mistakes being made that cost american lives for stupid reasons (believe it or not, we actually LIKE americans )
sorry for being offensive (it was meant to be a joke, i'll remove it)
The problem with the Afghan War is that it is just a simple planned invasion without any plans for getting out : it is almost the same way many play the stock market without an exit strategy. The soldiers give their lives in the name of justice, not hegemony.

Apparently justice is not delivered as of today as a number of provinces in Afghanistan are still under oppression, corruption by both the Karzai government and the Taliban.

Btw, you shouldn't just follow the news. Use some logic and critical thinking when reading them : newscasters, reporters and editors will do what it takes to make sure their news sell rather than informing people.

Quote:
2nd
if the terrorist know that using THEIR OWN CIVILIANS as shields is a winning strategy, they will keep doing it.
war criminals shouldn't be REWARDED for their crimes by letting it work.
And we can't just bomb them all to oblivion either. Due to secrecy issues, I cannot bring an argument against you, but I will just say that COIN, especially limited-lethality engagements are a few hundred times tougher to carry out than just clearing every town of enemies. SpecOps are given their distinctions due to their high professionalism in carrying out such operations, and not every soldier can do that. It isn't a training issue, it is a naturalised intuition and judgment in that individual himself/herself.

As much as we want to shoot them all and drop JDAMs, it isn't right for an innocent to die just because two sides are fighting. Keeping up just-enough pressure without going all out is the only thing they can do to limit collateral damage.

Quote:
3rd
either burn the poppy AFTER you buy it, or convert it to morpheme
just make sure the Taliban can't use them
They already did, but the Taliban can grow them again.

The problem is that poppies are the SOLE source of livelihood for the people there, you can't just take it away without offering an alternatives with equal returns.

And growing poppy is much more profitable than wheat or anything else : there is a reason why it is called a cash crop.

Quote:
4th
your already THERE
is pulling out an option at this point ?
if not, then you need to rethink.
There isn't a quick exit strategy AT ALL. However I do agree with one part McChrystal candidly put forward : Obama aides are clowns to believe that there is one (yeah there is one, just walk out of it and leave the place in shambles. That hardly counts as a strategy does it?).

The problems faced in Afghanistan are :

1. They have got zero natural resources.
2. Their economy functions by exporting raw material for illegal narcotics.
3. They have got two choices for leadership : the Taliban or Karzai, and neither of them are competent enough to rule the country or engage in PROPER foreign diplomacy.

What US is doing is the bare minimal and the toughest : restructuring the economy. A source of income for that arid piece of desert is the main problem, nobody knows what that place can export LEGALLY in the first place to sustain itself.

They can't run a service industry because their people aren't educated in the usage of modern technology (other than Warsaw Pact firearms, but that isn't considered high-end is it?), the Talidogs aren't helping by restricting education and bombing schools that teach and use modern tech, and there is insufficient money to put into the budget for education.

The place isn't like Vietnam where there is agricultural opportunities to grow something other than opium : making it a potential hotspot for black industries to grow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Unlike Israel's situation, this is a war of choice. We claim that we were attacked and so we went over there, but the response was arguably overblown. They are not at our border, firing rockets onto our soil regularly. The situation is very different, and simply being there is costing the country a lot of money every day.
It isn't a war of choice. There is legitimacy to it...the Al-Qaeda and their affiliates, like Jemaah Islamiah, have run into much larger problems due to heightened security protocols after the war started : and it is better for the world, especially in SEA where I live. I must say that it helped bring to light the asinine and hypocritical behaviour radical Muslims have on their moderate counterparts, as well as stall their funding and operations to attempt building an Islamic caliphate here. They could have just spread their subliminal influences to further destabilise the region after the 9/11 to undermine democratic/autonomous institutions US has helped to build during the Cold War.

The response wasn't overblown, it is badly planned. The country is like a terrorist factory turning Afghanistan civilians and Muslims from around the world into radicalised killers as the ruling party is already a terrorist organisation in the first place. US went in, and had problems getting out because of bad postwar planning.
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.

Last edited by SaintessHeart; 2010-06-24 at 19:56.
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Old 2010-06-24, 21:23   Link #7950
Kamui4356
Aria Company
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
*snip*
It seems that half the things you suggest are already being done. The other half are political impossibilities. The US cares about PR.
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Old 2010-06-25, 01:51   Link #7951
Hage-bai
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Should have nuked that shit hole in 2001 and be done with it. Too bad.



Quote:
Your home needs to be nuked cause obviously nothing of worth is there either.
Comedy gold. Funny shite.

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Old 2010-06-25, 02:04   Link #7952
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hage-bai View Post
Should have nuked that shit hole in 2001 and be done with it. Too bad.
US signed the SALT, START and SORT. They can't nuke.

Though another resort is thermobaric weaponry.
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-06-25, 03:10   Link #7953
Irenicus
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I love it how the armchair tough guys are advocating genocide like it's all shits and giggles.

Look, at least be decent and keep your megalomaniac fantasies safely in video games like I do. I'd prefer it if the USA doesn't take your* advice and make me a citizen of a nation directly responsible for mass war crimes, thankyouverymuch.

*I'm not going to quote anyone here. Think for yourself about who you are and what you're suggesting.
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Old 2010-06-25, 11:02   Link #7954
Ledgem
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No new news has been posted yet, so I'd like to make another response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
1st
i'm not talking as an israeli, i'm talking as a person who follows the news
and i'm seeing mistakes being made that cost american lives for stupid reasons (believe it or not, we actually LIKE americans )
sorry for being offensive (it was meant to be a joke, i'll remove it)
You are an Israeli, and that affects your world view, just as being an American descended from Israelis affects mine, and someone from an Arab nation would have their views affected by their culture and experience from where they grew up as well. I only point it out to say that life and perceptions of terrorism are pretty different in Israel and in America.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
2nd
if the terrorist know that using THEIR OWN CIVILIANS as shields is a winning strategy, they will keep doing it.
war criminals shouldn't be REWARDED for their crimes by letting it work.
It isn't really a winning strategy in the long term, though. Civilians who find out that the Taliban are using them as shields will be unappreciative of that fact. Furthermore, the Taliban can use the alternative form of action to their benefit, as well. As I said, if they know that the Americans will fire back regardless of how many civilians are in the area, then what would stop the Taliban from trying to conduct all of their operations from areas with many civilians? The Americans would be seen as killing dozens, if not hundreds more civilians than Taliban fighters, and we would lose support very quickly.

From what I've read, the Taliban are still largely regarded as violent thugs who harm the people. The Americans are still regarded with suspicion (people are afraid that we're there to invade them and rule them). We ultimately need the local people's support to "win." That is more important than simply killing as many Taliban fighters as possible. We're just lucky that the Taliban have not taken the path of Hamas and Hezbollah, which have charitable arms and thus which can convince their respective populations that they're a good and just organization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
4th
your already THERE
is pulling out an option at this point ?
if not, then you need to rethink.
Yes, it is an option. And as time passes, the public increasingly wants it to happen.
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Old 2010-06-25, 11:04   Link #7955
MrTerrorist
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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Enough with the politics and lets talk something else instead.


Bionic feet for amputee cat

Hooray for the Cat.

Swiss graffiti man faces Singapore caning
Ahhh, canning. The last time i saw one was for that Malaysian woman who drank alcohol but was later pardoned.

Sex tape charges for Indonesian star Nazril Irham
What the? The frontman from the band Peterpan did porn? What does this sound familiar? Speaking of sex...

Sex domain gets official approval
Hello .xxx and goodbye to guys trying to hide evidence watching porn. lol
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Old 2010-06-25, 11:17   Link #7956
ZephyrLeanne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
Enough with the politics and lets talk something else instead.


Swiss graffiti man faces Singapore caning
Ahhh, canning. The last time i saw one was for that Malaysian woman who drank alcohol but was later pardoned.
HO YEAH! Finally! (No, seriously!) Go GAHMEN! Show those Westerners what Asians are made of!!
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Old 2010-06-25, 13:43   Link #7957
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
Swiss graffiti man faces Singapore caning
Ahhh, canning. The last time i saw one was for that Malaysian woman who drank alcohol but was later pardoned.
So much for the 8th Core Value being underused.

Last time is Michael Fay where US made a fuss. I am glad the Swiss didn't do anything and let us whip the cheese out of him.
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-06-25, 14:13   Link #7958
ZephyrLeanne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
So much for the 8th Core Value being underused.

Last time is Michael Fay where US made a fuss. I am glad the Swiss didn't do anything and let us whip the cheese out of him.
Uh? AN 8th core value? I thought there were five: democracy, peace, progress, justice and equality. And the one here is probably the 5th. Or fourth.
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Old 2010-06-25, 16:42   Link #7959
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZephyrLeanne View Post
Uh? AN 8th core value? I thought there were five: democracy, peace, progress, justice and equality. And the one here is probably the 5th. Or fourth.
I take it that you didn't serve.

Now this is an interesting article :

Salesmanship Lessons From Donald Trump

Quote:
In his bestselling book The Art of the Deal, Donald Trump provided a unique perspective on constructing and negotiating business transactions. But as much as we know Trump as a deal-maker extraordinaire, his greatest skill is his salesmanship.

Think of The Donald as a salesman on steroids. And in this lesser-recognized role, Trump practices the art of the thrill.

Want to know what I mean by this and what we can learn from it for our own salesmanship?

Consider the following:

Never do things for your customers and prospects in a small way. Make it big and important or don't do it at all.
I can assure you that when Trump takes a banker out to lunch to discuss a construction loan, he takes him out for a feast. He's not out to save money on the meal; he's determined to make money from it.

Now think of your own mental gymnastics when you invite a prospect out to dine. Chances are you think through the options, searching for a nice enough place but affordable.

Affordable?! If you've set aside $100 for dinner and drinks, push it to $200. If the prospect is big enough, consider $300 or even $500. Is it extravagant? Yes, but you're out to practice the art of the thrill. No one will remember another run-of-the-mill dinner, but an over-the-top feast will make you the thrill-maker they remember.

Everyone likes to do business with a winner. No matter what stage of your career, you need to look like you've made it.That means wearing a suit that will impress. As a universal rule, make it your business to be the best-dressed in the room. If you lack the fashion sense, a premier store will be more than happy to assign a knowledgeable salesperson to assist you.

And if you're thinking of the budget thing again, forget it. Put it this way; a smashing, well-tailored suit will last you for years. Allocate the upfront cost over dozens or possibly hundreds of business meetings and the investment becomes a mere pittance. Remember that your goal is not to save money; it's to make the sale--leave the penny pinching to others.

Bring your ego with you in full bloom. It's not enough to look successful; you need to act it as well. This demonstrates that you are alsoone of the smartest people in the room.

Again, take a page from Trump. Sure, he can be garish and way over the top, but no way is he going to check his ego at the door. Neither should you. So find a way to bring up your most significant achievements, tell an intriguing story and talk up your travels, discoveries and epiphanies.

The timid and the small thinkers will talk sports and weather. They will pale in comparison to the bold winners who regale their prospects and customers with compelling ideas and stories.

I'll never forget the afternoon I spent with legendary Washington attorney and presidential advisor Clark Clifford. He didn't just "meet" with me; he held court in a walnut-paneled office, wore a suit fit for a monarch and fascinated me with vividly colored stories that thrilled as much as educated and entertained. He established himself as one of the most important people in a town filled with big egos and left the impression that when it came to lawyers in the nation's capital, there could be only one choice.

This is the challenge and the opportunity before you--to make certain that of all the salespeople your customers and prospects come in contact with, you are the one indelibly imprinted on their brains. You don't sell. You thrill.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-06-25, 19:43   Link #7960
Tiberium Wolf
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Age: 34
All McNuggets not created equal

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Marion Nestle, a New York University professor and author of “What to Eat,” says the tertiary butylhydroquinone and dimethylpolysiloxane in the McNuggets probably pose no health risks. As a general rule, though, she advocates not eating any food with an ingredient you can’t pronounce.
I really can't pronounce those words. Dunno how ppl invent those words. Interesting quote nevertheless.
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