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Old 2010-06-27, 22:07   Link #8001
Poetic Justice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
Come on, we're talking about Apple fans here.
Good for apple, It's every company's dream to have a legion of shills ready to hype and buy every terrible and featureless product they come out with.
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Old 2010-06-28, 01:25   Link #8002
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Cuts both ways. If you know your stuff, why be afraid of answering questions? Of course, I'm presuming the system itself is fair. Judging from some comments I've read, the amount of injustice in some systems is interestingly high.
Two big reasons, according to the video: you could recall incorrectly, which will then be interpreted as a lie or a revealing slip up, or some other witness could recall incorrectly, and then it's your word against his.
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Old 2010-06-28, 07:42   Link #8003
Kamui4356
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Quote:


Washington (CNN) -- West Virginia Sen. Robert Byrd, the self-educated son of a coal miner who became the longest-serving member of Congress, died early Monday at age 92, the senator's office said.

Byrd, a nine-term Democrat, was known as a master of the chamber's often-arcane rules and as the self-proclaimed "champion of the Constitution," a jealous guardian of congressional power.

His speeches were laced with references to poetry and the Greek and Roman classics, often punctuated by the brandishing of his pocket copy of the national charter.

He was also known as the "King of Pork," using top positions on the Senate Appropriations Committee to steer federal spending to his home state -- one of the nation's poorest.
As he was one of the most conservative democrates, it'll be interesting to see who replaces him in the senate.
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Old 2010-06-28, 07:54   Link #8004
Arbitres
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We're going to have a difficult time replacing him.

That is about all I have to say.
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Old 2010-06-28, 08:38   Link #8005
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
As he was one of the most conservative democrates, it'll be interesting to see who replaces him in the senate.
As long as he is replaced by someone who's against intelligent design and Terri's Law, we should be fine.
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-06-28, 08:48   Link #8006
Vexx
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Byrd was interesting because he *evolved* and his attitudes changed as he learned more in life. He frequently apologized for views he held earlier in life. One of the biggest failures we have in US politics is this notion that someone can't change their mind on the basis of new information. They either maintain their obsolete view by irrational fiat or they try to re-invent history to claim they'd always held their new view.
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Old 2010-06-28, 08:58   Link #8007
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Byrd was interesting because he *evolved* and his attitudes changed as he learned more in life. He frequently apologized for views he held earlier in life. One of the biggest failures we have in US politics is this notion that someone can't change their mind on the basis of new information. They either maintain their obsolete view by irrational fiat or they try to re-invent history to claim they'd always held their new view.
So he was one of the "renegade" conservatives who think differently? Or are there the neo-cons making all the dumb decisions that doesn't regard the ideas and beliefs Byrd, as a normal conservative, held in the US political system?

Meaning which, are the neo-cons and conservatives of the same camp or not in the US?
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-06-28, 09:14   Link #8008
Joojoobees
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Senator Byrd certainly wasn't a "neo-con". For one thing he respected the rule of law, and the limited role assigned to the US Presidency by the Constitution. At a time when neo-cons were falling all over themselves trying to devise new ways to grant the executive branch new and sweeping authorities, Senator Byrd stood practically alone, trying to prevent the Iraq War, and warrantless wire-tapping, as just two examples.

I have a lot of respect for him, as I did for the late Senator Kennedy, but I do wish US senators would use some common sense and retire before they get so old they can't completely participate in the political process. Oh well, he tried to do some good while he was alive, which makes him better than a lot of people in my book.
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Old 2010-06-28, 09:20   Link #8009
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joojoobees View Post
Senator Byrd certainly wasn't a "neo-con". For one thing he respected the rule of law, and the limited role assigned to the US Presidency by the Constitution. At a time when neo-cons were falling all over themselves trying to devise new ways to grant the executive branch new and sweeping authorities, Senator Byrd stood practically alone, trying to prevent the Iraq War, and warrantless wire-tapping, as just two examples.

I have a lot of respect for him, as I did for the late Senator Kennedy, but I do wish US senators would use some common sense and retire before they get so old they can't completely participate in the political process. Oh well, he tried to do some good while he was alive, which makes him better than a lot of people in my book.
Pardon my denseness, can you give me a brief rundown of the neo-con and conservatives agenda from 2005 to now, and how was Byrd faring in the picture?

I don't want to read anything from wiki.....high chance the "facts" could be fabbed by the politicians or the CIA.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-06-28, 09:22   Link #8010
justsomeguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
So he was one of the "renegade" conservatives who think differently? Or are there the neo-cons making all the dumb decisions that doesn't regard the ideas and beliefs Byrd, as a normal conservative, held in the US political system?

Meaning which, are the neo-cons and conservatives of the same camp or not in the US?
He was a Democrat, so he's regarded as a liberal regardless of being in the conservative wing. He's definitely not a neocon, or else he would have been a Republican and supported the Iraq War.
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Old 2010-06-28, 12:29   Link #8011
Joojoobees
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The "neo-cons" were a group of "intellectuals" (that is mostly did not hold political office) who provided the intellectual justification for the Iraq War. Byrd was a vocal critic.

Republicans often claim to be conservative, but they typically don't walk the walk. IMO, "conservative" principally means sticking to things as they are, making minimal changes to the established order, being cautious of overreach, and above all respecting the rule of Law. The GWB administration showed none of these tendencies. Instead the 2nd Bush administration (the "neo-cons") decided to go to war with Iraq (starting a second war) lightly, and lied to Congress, the international community, and the American people to do so. When they wanted to wiretap Americans they IGNORED THE LAW, and did so as they chose. When they felt like torturing people, they IGNORED INTERNATIONAL TREATIES, and did as they pleased. When they wanted to hold people without charge, and no possibility of trial, they IGNORED THE US CONSTITUTION and roughly 800 years of legal precedent, did it anyways. Senator Byrd stood against them in these efforts, standing on the traditions of established Law and the US Constitution. So, yeah, you can call Byrd a "conservative", for that reason, if no other.
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Old 2010-06-28, 16:11   Link #8012
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The Third Depression
Quote:
By Paul Krugman for The New York Times
(June 27)

RECESSIONS are common; depressions are rare. As far as I can tell, there were only two eras in economic history that were widely described as "depressions" at the time: the years of deflation and instability that followed the Panic of 1873 and the years of mass unemployment that followed the financial crisis of 1929-31.

...We are now, I fear, in the early stages of a third depression. It will probably look more like the Long Depression than the much more severe Great Depression. But the cost — to the world economy and, above all, to the millions of lives blighted by the absence of jobs — will nonetheless be immense.

And this third depression will be primarily a failure of policy. Around the world — most recently at last weekend's deeply discouraging Group of 20 meeting — governments are obsessing about inflation when the real threat is deflation, preaching the need for belt-tightening when the real problem is inadequate spending.

...In the face of this grim picture, you might have expected policy makers to realise that they haven’t yet done enough to promote recovery. But, no, over the last few months there has been a stunning resurgence of hard-money and balanced-budget orthodoxy.

...Why the wrong turn in policy? The hardliners often invoke the troubles facing Greece and other nations around the edges of Europe to justify their actions. And it's true that bond investors have turned on governments with intractable deficits.

But there is no evidence that short-run fiscal austerity in the face of a depressed economy reassures investors. On the contrary, Greece has agreed to harsh austerity, only to find its risk spreads growing ever wider.

It's almost as if the financial markets understand what policy makers seemingly don't: that while long-term fiscal responsibility is important, slashing spending in the midst of a depression, which deepens that depression and paves the way for deflation, is actually self-defeating.

...And who will pay the price for this triumph of orthodoxy? The answer is, tens of millions of unemployed workers, many of whom will go jobless for years, and some of whom will never work again.
It almost sounds like a face-palm moment: Continued profligacy in the face of imminent sovereign bankruptcy is the solution to all the world's problems.

Right... Repeat after Krugman: Greed is good...
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Old 2010-06-28, 18:56   Link #8013
TooPurePureBoy
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/wo.../29spy.html?hp

Sounds like a Bond movie.
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Old 2010-06-28, 19:37   Link #8014
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooPurePureBoy View Post
I remind me more ''The Cardinal of the Kremlin'' than any Bond movie.
( Bond would make a rather lousy spy in real life ...)
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Old 2010-06-28, 21:28   Link #8015
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
The Third Depression


It almost sounds like a face-palm moment: Continued profligacy in the face of imminent sovereign bankruptcy is the solution to all the world's problems.

Right... Repeat after Krugman: Greed is good...
Since when did Japan become a deflationary trap? The cost of living rose between the 1989 crash through the 1990s.

In the hard irony of all of it, unfortunately, consumerism is the driving force behind all market movement : as long as there is a want, there is a demand, for which a supply can be created and money can be made. If the money doesn't move, the market doesn't move, and as demand drops, suppliers raise price to cover their production costs. This leads to stagflation.

So in a sense, greed is good. Controlling it is good for everyone, however many simply just let their greed run and become victims of fear in the end.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-06-28, 21:38   Link #8016
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
So he was one of the "renegade" conservatives who think differently? Or are there the neo-cons making all the dumb decisions that doesn't regard the ideas and beliefs Byrd, as a normal conservative, held in the US political system?

Meaning which, are the neo-cons and conservatives of the same camp or not in the US?
Actually he was more classically conservative. As I understood it unless it was in the constitution or the constitution allowed it he didn't go far it as far as political debate and policy votes went. Neo-Conservatives ideology strikes me as being about the agenda above all else. Find any way to advance your political bases agenda and if that means reworking the constitution a bit with policy like the PATRIOT act then you argue for it.
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Old 2010-06-28, 23:41   Link #8017
Vexx
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I'd go even farther -- Neocon is basically unitary executive corporatist fascism under all the window dressing. They issue statements meant to manipulate the social conservatives but there's a degree of cynicism that makes even me look puppy innocent. They aren't about small business, they aren't about community, they could care less about the Consititution though they often wrap themselves in it+flag+bible. They want to recreate something akin to the Roman Imperial State.
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Old 2010-06-29, 00:06   Link #8018
yezhanquan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
The Third Depression


It almost sounds like a face-palm moment: Continued profligacy in the face of imminent sovereign bankruptcy is the solution to all the world's problems.

Right... Repeat after Krugman: Greed is good...
I think what Paul meant was for governments to plan stimulus programmes which would benefit the economy even after it picks up. Of course, the devil is in the execution of the policy, to avoid wastage and production which ends up being useless. Of course, past experiences resulted in much warranted suspicions on where the money would actually go to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Since when did Japan become a deflationary trap? The cost of living rose between the 1989 crash through the 1990s.

In the hard irony of all of it, unfortunately, consumerism is the driving force behind all market movement : as long as there is a want, there is a demand, for which a supply can be created and money can be made. If the money doesn't move, the market doesn't move, and as demand drops, suppliers raise price to cover their production costs. This leads to stagflation.

So in a sense, greed is good. Controlling it is good for everyone, however many simply just let their greed run and become victims of fear in the end.
The key is balance. By all means, consume, but please don't borrow money to do it, or make it the only thing you do in life.
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Old 2010-06-29, 09:38   Link #8019
ChainLegacy
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Borrowing money isn't inherently bad. Dumb in some situations, yes, but it has its place in the economy. The thing I'm worried about in the US economy is we don't reward those who save...
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Old 2010-06-29, 09:46   Link #8020
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
The key is balance. By all means, consume, but please don't borrow money to do it, or make it the only thing you do in life.
Borrowing money is fine....as long as you pay it back in the shortest possible time you can. Immediate would be best.

Installment plans are considered credit purchases, which is in turn borrowing money. Henry Ford came up with his idea so people would buy his automobiles (consumerism increases sales, which in turn increases investments in his company to supply the capital for his works), however he incurred losses when many couldn't pay finish them during the Great Depression.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
Borrowing money isn't inherently bad. Dumb in some situations, yes, but it has its place in the economy. The thing I'm worried about in the US economy is we don't reward those who save...
Blame it on advertising and wild marketing, as well as inherent stupidity and refusal to think and analyse critically on the consumer's side.

Advertisers often have this uncanny ability of making "wants" look like "needs". Just another reason for that sucker to buy something to line the pockets of that ass.

Analysis: Arrests show U.S.-Russia spies' covert war lives on

Quote:
At first sight the latest U.S.-Russian spy row seems a Cold War flashback, with the drama played out against a deceptively genteel backdrop of cafes, embassies and suburbs.

Adorned with the Internet-era gadgetry of 21st century modernity, the story told in court papers filed in New York poses a series of conundrums about sources, targets and contacts -- as yet unsolved -- redolent of 1970s and 1980s spy scandals.

But whatever the truth about the people rounded up in the United States, analysts say the case illustrates a stubborn truth of big power relations -- Cold War or no, spy catchers are as busy as ever in a secret world that relies on deception.

Nor will there be any doubt, say observers based in the West, about the mood this morning among Russian intelligence chiefs following the announcement by U.S. authorities that they had broken up a big spy ring.

"In Moscow, they will be angry," former KGB Colonel and British double agent Oleg Gordievsky told Reuters.

"'How much of the information we got was planted by the FBI -- that's what they'll be wondering in Moscow Center," said Robert Ayers, a former U.S. intelligence officer.

Saying the alleged spy group had recruited political sources and gathered information for the Russian government, U.S. authorities have charged 11 individuals with carrying out deep-cover work to learn about U.S. economic and foreign policy and intelligence and the world gold market.

Russia's Foreign Ministry called the allegations baseless and said it was regrettable that they came after Washington's call for a "reset" in ties between the Cold War foes.

Ayers said the U.S. revelations will have led to a profound "damage assessment" among Moscow's espionage leadership.

He said Russian spy chiefs would also be asking themselves: "If this group did manage to obtain classified information, will the FBI choose to reveal this in open court?"

Court papers show the group was under surveillance for years.

"You're positive no one is watching?" one of the alleged agents asks at a meeting at a New York coffee shop with an FBI agent posing as a Russian, court papers published online show.

The Justice Department documents say the group was given orders to live for years in the United States to cultivate credible backgrounds and spend time getting to know well-placed sources of information.

HEROES AND CURSES

According to the papers, a decoded Russian message defined the group's goal as becoming "sufficiently Americanized such that they can gather information about the United States for Russia, and can successfully recruit sources who are in, or are able to infiltrate, United States policy-making circles."

U.S. authorities accuse the group of operating under orders of Russia's SVR agency as "illegals" -- an intelligence term used for agents living under false identities, as opposed to officers who use diplomatic cover or other legitimate cover.

Gordievsky said Russia had "dozens and dozens of unofficial" spies working in the United States.

Over the years, he said, Moscow had come to believe these were "immune" to detection, and had sent an increasing flow of agents not only to United States but also to other Western powers like France, Germany and Britain.

"This is a case of the United States simply telling Russia, 'For 20 years we have tolerated your activities in our country and we are now saying we are watching you and we will act if you do not stop'," he said.

Some attention is likely to focus on the sources approached by the agents, said Ayers.

Many appeared to be former government officials, and it was not yet clear whether these individuals had been told by the FBI at the time that their contacts were under surveillance.

"It's a question to watch, because such individuals tend to run their mouth about their time in office," said Ayers. "There's no one more likely to run to hyperbole that a former official. These guys puff up with pride like a toad frog."

The latest espionage rumpus between Washington and Moscow is the latest in a long line. It is unlikely to be the last.

One of the Soviet Union's most successful intelligence officials, Boris Solomatin, once said in a rare interview that U.S.-Russian spying would never end, although he argued it could and should become less "uncivilized" in a post Cold war era.

"The activity of both intelligence services will not stop, never will," said Solomatin, who oversaw the recruitment of John Walker, a naval communications specialist who sold U.S. secrets for cash in the 1970s and 1980s.

"We make heroes of those who help us and give them medals, and curse those who betray us," he told journalist Pete Earley.
Okay, whether this is true or not, being a global intelligence enthusiast, it still merits a facepalm.

FFS, the goddamn Cold War is over. Keep your spies in foreign territory to the necessary minimum. SVR thought it would be a good idea to just leave their old spies in US after the USSR collapsed, apparently it is a stupid one after all since the FBI busted them. Either that, or the US needs to address their real economic issues rather than cooking up spy stories to distract the populace from their woes.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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