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Old 2010-07-29, 08:39   Link #8421
Irenicus
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
a extremists is a extremists, if wikileaks don't care enough to cross out names that can get real people murder because of their belief in free speech. Then they are no different form taliban or any nationalist who think a few people getting kill is a small price for national security.
I didn't say I agree with them. I think they went too far, personally, and did more harm to their cause than good.

However I read their action as a matter of principle rather than an attempt at media coup precisely because it is such an unwise action. During the helicopter video incident, they might have earned the ire of the military and the more...patriotic section of the populace, but to the rest of us they were the heroes. The military's legal harassment only strengthened their appearance as brave whistleblowers and muckrakers standing against The Man.

This, however, did not reveal any potentially major miscarriage of justice, but instead may have seriously endangered lives. Even the most enthusiastic of the public that supported them will give pause.

So why did they do something so stupid? That's why I read them as free speech extremists refusing to compromise no matter what. And frankly, while this incident may leave a bad aftertaste, in the long run free speech extremists are a much less terrible bunch than the self-appointed defenders of our national security, who in a sense have been responsible for more losses of life than we could legitimately approximate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo
How the fuck is getting some poor mother fuckers heads cut off fucking admirable?

Watch a video of somebody getting their head cut off and tell me how fucking admirable it is.
You yourself practically demanded the head of one of wikileaks' members in outrage, no? To be sure it's not on the same level as actually leaking such "hot" documents, but I don't think this kind of attitude is acceptable either.

As for the other point see my response above.
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Old 2010-07-29, 10:14   Link #8422
Hage-bai
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Heroes?....Whatever. That moonbat liar Assange? L M F A O. The fool was exposed as one. The guy is the LEFT version of Breitbart.
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Old 2010-07-29, 10:48   Link #8423
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hage-bai View Post
Heroes?....Whatever. That moonbat liar Assange? L M F A O. The fool was exposed as one. The guy is the LEFT version of Breitbart.
LOL, I love that comparison, not because it is apt, but because of how ironic and wrong it is. Breitbart is famous for purposely editing/distorting his content to satisfy his own personal ideology, whereas Assange is the exact opposite (though to the extreme), pushing for full disclosure of all information even if it harms him or his country.

To be a little facetious, which would you prefer? Someone that strives to always tell the truth (or at least give you as much information as they can so that you can form some sort of meaningful opinion), or someone who deliberately lies to you (or at least presents information is such a way as to influence you) in order to affect your opinion from the onset?

Wikileaks may or may not have gone too far in this specific case, and their good intentions could mistakenly pave a road to "hell", but damn if I don't personally prefer hearing some real facts about the world (even if I or my loved ones could be potentially harmed) rather than the pasteurized drivel that comes out of 90+% of the media on the right or the left.
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Old 2010-07-29, 11:09   Link #8424
Hage-bai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
LOL, I love that comparison, not because it is apt, but because of how ironic and wrong it is. Breitbart is famous for purposely editing/distorting his content to satisfy his own personal ideology, whereas Assange is the exact opposite (though to the extreme), pushing for full disclosure of all information even if it harms him or his country.

To be a little facetious, which would you prefer? Someone that strives to always tell the truth LMFAO(or at least give you as much information as they can so that you can form some sort of meaningful opinion), or someone who deliberately lies to you (or at least presents information is such a way as to influence you) in order to affect your opinion from the onset?

Wikileaks may or may not have gone too far in this specific case, and their good intentions could mistakenly pave a road to "hell", but damn if I don't personally prefer hearing some real facts about the world (even if I or my loved ones could be potentially harmed) rather than the pasteurized drivel that comes out of 90+% of the media on the right or the left.
You have no clue about what you're talking about.

His videos weren't edited in any way? LOL. Or his website photos not completely illogical? LOL? Doesn't present information in such a way as to influence you? LOL. Colbert exposed this idiot. He is just like Breitbart. Assange is not even American. This shit won't harm his country.

Hopefully his mole gets put away for a number of years for serving this propagandist foreigner.
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Old 2010-07-29, 11:19   Link #8425
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hage-bai View Post
Doesn't present information in such a way as to influence you?
Fair enough. Everyone does wish to influence your/our opinion. So I did overstate this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hage-bai View Post
This shit won't harm his country.
Assange may have committed offence: ADA

Quote:
Wikileaks founder Australian Julian Assange could have committed a serious criminal offence in helping an enemy of the Australian Defence Force (ADF), the lobby group, the Australia Defence Association (ADA) says.
---
Mr James said there were many alternative avenues available for legitimate dissent which did not endanger our troops.

"Moreover, as an Australian citizen, Wikileaks' Julian Assange may also be guilty of a serious criminal offence by assisting an enemy the ADF is fighting on behalf of all Australians, especially if the assistance was intentional," he said.
---
Australia is mentioned in some of the documents with the Australian Defence Department forming a task force to assess whether release of this information has endangered Australian troops.

Mr James said whatever Mr Assange's motives, his actions again highlighted the need to amend treachery laws to prohibit reckless assistance to an enemy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hage-bai View Post
Hopefully his mole gets put away for a number of years for serving this propagandist foreigner.
On this point, I do agree. It is one thing for a civilian to show others material leaked to them, it is something else entirely for a soldier to actually leak material.
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Old 2010-07-29, 11:25   Link #8426
TinyRedLeaf
. . .
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
To be a little facetious, which would you prefer? Someone that strives to always tell the truth (or at least give you as much information as they can so that you can form some sort of meaningful opinion), or someone who deliberately lies to you (or at least presents information is such a way as to influence you) in order to affect your opinion from the onset?

Wikileaks may or may not have gone too far in this specific case, and their good intentions could mistakenly pave a road to "hell", but damn if I don't personally prefer hearing some real facts about the world (even if I or my loved ones could be potentially harmed) rather than the pasteurized drivel that comes out of 90+% of the media on the right or the left.
Both extremes are bad and are to be avoided as far as possible.

In principle, I would want information to be freely available to all. People cannot make useful decisions without as much relevant information as possible. That said, people are not created equal, and some information in the wrong hands is likely to cause more harm than good. In such instances, I would think twice before releasing such sensitive information to all and sundry.

These are decisions that senior editors at news agencies are supposed to ponder over every day. Most of the time, it's just the same old, boring routine of sorting out newsworthy stories from the chaff. But every now and then, a case comes along that demands more editorial judgment. In most credible news organisations, this process is (supposed to be; I readily concede that news agencies, like people, are not created equal, either) taken very seriously.

As for Julian Assange? Well, let me just say that I don't have a high opinion of his tactics. I find it amusing how some self-appointed champions of justice use the same methods as their opponents, and yet claim to be unbiased and objective. It's like we always say: One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. There is always an agenda — it's only a question of whether you support it, or not.
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Old 2010-07-29, 14:56   Link #8427
LeoXiao
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Doraneko, that article you posted was quite interesting. I did not know that Cantonese was used in Central China in that time period, but based on other writings I've seen, and also given the differences in Japanese "on-yomi"from modern Chinese, it makes sense taht a variant of Cantonese would have been spoken.

Quote:
Still, never did I say Mandarin should be replaced by English, and never will I advocate such. It would simply be non-practical and a waste of resources. CCP had good success in educating the non-literate public from over 50 races to be at least able to communicate in a common language (whatever it is). This is already a great achievement in itself.
I am aware of Mandarin's history; the focal point of my argument was that Mandarin, despite being a bureaucratic language (classical Chinese is about as close to Orwell's Newspeak as any language has gotten), is still Chinese by nature and is for the Chinese nation much better than English could ever be. The unifying aspect about Chinese is not so much pronunciation as it is the character system, which, btw, was also forced upon the locals (starting from Qin Shihuang IIRC) over time.

India is significant because they didn't have such unification, and because of their (tragic) colonial history, had to adopt English. IMO it would have been better for them to develop their own "Mandarin."
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Old 2010-07-30, 01:19   Link #8428
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
To be a little facetious, which would you prefer? Someone that strives to always tell the truth (or at least give you as much information as they can so that you can form some sort of meaningful opinion), or someone who deliberately lies to you (or at least presents information is such a way as to influence you) in order to affect your opinion from the onset?

Wikileaks may or may not have gone too far in this specific case, and their good intentions could mistakenly pave a road to "hell", but damn if I don't personally prefer hearing some real facts about the world (even if I or my loved ones could be potentially harmed) rather than the pasteurized drivel that comes out of 90+% of the media on the right or the left.
To me, Wikileaks is just like another game of cat-and-mouse by countries vs their dissent. If they shut it down, it will go somewhere else. Even worse, when it goes to the black market, intelligence agencies will have an extra workload of trying to find out what has been leaked and what has not.

The best way to find information is from the ground zero, though there are risks involved (what action doesn't). Sometimes you will trip on stuff you actually find useful. If anyone of you used Wikiscanner, some of the stuff raise a number of questions on credibility and quality of the information we are routinely provided. Also, it proves to an excellent source of information to how some people behave - i.e : try tracking the article of Lee Kuan Yew and watch the edits, then die laughing.

Treat Wikileaks as a gauge of damage control and open-source information for OSINT. I go there to find articles for my school project last semester, and occasionally, stuff people usually don't want me to know. I don't give a shit about the founder and his politics, I just want information without sifting through thousands of articles on the net or running requests on boards.
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Old 2010-07-30, 01:29   Link #8429
MrTerrorist
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Police seize $1.7bn worth of marijuana in California

Yes. Your reading it right. $1.7bn worth of weed.
Weed lovers are gonna have a heart attack.
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Old 2010-07-30, 11:06   Link #8430
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
And frankly, while this incident may leave a bad aftertaste, in the long run free speech extremists are a much less terrible bunch than the self-appointed defenders of our national security, who in a sense have been responsible for more losses of life than we could legitimately approximate.
Point being? That Jullian Assange lacks the power/reach for his screw ups to kill as many people?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
You yourself practically demanded the head of one of wikileaks' members in outrage, no? To be sure it's not on the same level as actually leaking such "hot" documents, but I don't think this kind of attitude is acceptable either.
Perhaps. But I'm certainly not going to apologize for finding wikileaks lack of concern/sloppiness on this matter atrocious. They were in no rush to release these documents. There really isn't an excuse for them to have better sifted through their documents and censored/cut documents from the release if they gave something specific like the name/residence of an informant.
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Old 2010-07-31, 17:57   Link #8431
Tiberium Wolf
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Age: 35
America's oldest family farm for sale

Ok. I know it's hard to compete with the Supermarkets but I still think they should continue. They are shaming their ancestors. 2010-1635 = 375 years that's a LOT! Damn sons and grandsons don't want the business.
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Old 2010-07-31, 18:02   Link #8432
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberium Wolf View Post
America's oldest family farm for sale

Ok. I know it's hard to compete with the Supermarkets but I still think they should continue. They are shaming their ancestors. 2010-1635 = 375 years that's a LOT! Damn sons and grandsons don't want the business.
their ancestor are dead and buried. whats the point of keeping the farm when the next gen don't want it.
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Old 2010-07-31, 20:51   Link #8433
Nadeko_Sengoku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
Police seize $1.7bn worth of marijuana in California

Yes. Your reading it right. $1.7bn worth of weed.
Weed lovers are gonna have a heart attack.
good! now we need to invent weed-seeking missiles and blow up all the pot-heads!
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Old 2010-07-31, 21:53   Link #8434
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
Police seize $1.7bn worth of marijuana in California

Yes. Your reading it right. $1.7bn worth of weed.
Weed lovers are gonna have a heart attack.
And some peoples where talking to legalize marijuana in that state...
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Old 2010-08-01, 04:10   Link #8435
JMvS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
And some peoples where talking to legalize marijuana in that state...
That speaks tons on the size of the market...

I wonder if studies have been made on how much is consumed on total, and on what would be the share of Marijuana in the agricultural sector for California to be self sufficient?
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Old 2010-08-01, 12:46   Link #8436
TinyRedLeaf
. . .
 
 
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Growing up, one is indeed the loneliest number
Quote:
By Ai Yang
China Daily (July 30)

THE other day I overheard a conversation between two middle-aged mothers: "People like you and me will end up in nursing homes when we grow old — there's no doubt about it. I have only one child and I know there will be too much on his shoulders in the future."

The way she put it, it seemed like she was fine with the idea. But the casual statement sounded to me like a personal accusation, stabbing right into my heart, casting doubt on my ability to care for my own mum-dad-and-me nuclear family.

When I was still a carefree child, oblivious to what I was about to face in the future, I used to express my love for my parents with promises sweeter than honey: "Mummy, when I grow up I'll buy you a fancy house with gardens. And a posh car for you, Dad." Those innocent words never failed to put big smiles on their faces.

As I grew a little bit older, I began to have a better concept of money, but still I would joke about those houses and cars, only now with slightly different words: "I will buy you a big toy house and a big toy car, mum and dad." Yet, they still found it funny.

Now, I am an adult and I have stopped giving out empty promises, for now I realise what it truly means to be the only one, out there on my own, looking after not just myself, but also, more importantly, my parents — with no one else to offer me a helping hand.

Those jokes about houses and cars, they're no longer uttered just for laughs. I know my parents never really expected them from me — all they ever wanted was for me to be happy. But, increasingly, I find myself wondering: Will I be able to provide for my mum and dad when they are old, just as they had provided for me when I was a child?

A gnawing fear grows inside me: I worry that all that I am capable of offering in the future would fail to match everything they had given me over the past 20-something years.

Being born in the 1980s, I was one of the many blessed single children who witnessed huge changes in our lives — changes that were all for the better. Unlike the privileged children of today, I did not grow up having my dad chauffeur me to and from school in an Audi. Nor did I have my own bedroom for sleeping and playing in.

I remember how happy my dad was when he replaced his old bike with his first car, and I remember how I couldn't believe how bright and spacious my own bedroom was when my family moved into a bigger apartment with wooden floors instead of plastic flooring.

All these happened at a time when opportunities seemed everywhere to be found, a time when development seemed only to race forward ever steadily faster. And now, 20 years later, it's my generation's turn to carry on building the future. All of a sudden, I feel stressed. I feel lonely.

I'm not even certain that I have the ability to create and achieve with the same, if not faster, pace something great like my father and mother did.

And, sometimes, I wish I had a brother or sister to share my doubts and fears with. I wish I had a brother or sister to help ensure our parents' well-being. And I wish I had a brother or sister to turn to, and to cry with, when one day our parents leave us.

At a time when singletons like me have just graduated from universities, entered adulthood, found an okay job, and started realising that all the "me-orientated" love, care and attention really do come at a price — that there is really just only me, and no one else but me — the West, curiously enough, seems to be thinking about following China's model of one-child families.

Earlier this month, Time magazine published a long article debating the pros and cons of having just one child, and the author — a mother of one herself — seems to believe that it's not a screwed-up situation having to raise just one child.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that being a single child screwed me up. But I do believe that being an only child will definitely have an impact on a person's childhood — and it will take more than 10 or 20 years to see the significance of that effect.

For, in my case, one is indeed proving to be the loneliest number.
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Old 2010-08-01, 14:29   Link #8437
Xion Valkyrie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
Police seize $1.7bn worth of marijuana in California

Yes. Your reading it right. $1.7bn worth of weed.
Weed lovers are gonna have a heart attack.
Man, if only CA sold all that weed instead. Think of how much it'd help our budget. Another reason to legalize and regulate Marijuana.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Hmm, as a single Chinese child myself, I feel that while I don't have brothers or sisters, I'm close enough with my cousins that we're basically brothers and sisters.
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Old 2010-08-01, 14:47   Link #8438
WordShaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
While I have siblings myself, I can relate very well to the article. My oldest sister is self-admittedly not "in it for the money" in her career choice as a freelancing graphic designer, those of whom can make a tidy living, but I wonder. Another older sister is still struggling to decide what she wants to do with her future. I, myself, am looking to become a civil rights attorney, so I don't expect much money there, either.

The issue is particularly grating because my parents married and had children at a very late age. My father is 63 years old and, because of recent financial struggles and a not-wise decision to buy a new home at the height of the 2007 housing bubble, is still working. He doesn't have too much saved in his retirement account, either. My mother of 50 works as well, but my parents made the decision of refraining from pulling money from her retirement accounts.

This puts a lot of pressure on my siblings and I because we would have to face the challenge of providing for their parents much earlier than most would. Moreover, they've expressed a lot of discontent with traditional nursing homes, and I wouldn't want to have to do that to them. In fact, they both wish to return to Vietnam to be with the rest of their family, and to possibly hire a housekeeper. They've both tried to tell me that it's an unfeasible goal, but I'd like to do that for them.

Admittedly, this puts me in a tough spot when it comes to higher education and its costs. Oh boy, that's going to take some wrangling.
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Old 2010-08-01, 16:32   Link #8439
JMvS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
I think I can relate to this, even if I am kinda at the opposite end of the spectrum. For I've seen parents burying their children, time take it's toll on them, and some dying more or less alone, or surrounded by their progeny.
As a firstborn, I've observed the peculiar fates of my peers, unrealized single children, and couldn't help but be terrified by many of the "what if" scenarios...
And both as a Swiss and as a Tsinoy, I've seen perhaps both ends of the old age care spectrum...

But perhaps the greatest tragedy for continentals, is that after two generations of Single Child Policy, there won't be anymore uncles, aunts and cousins...
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Old 2010-08-01, 16:46   Link #8440
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Though I have an older sister myself, none of us are admittedly willing to take care of our parents. That is because we don't like them - they are too money-faced and annoying, and they are always at odds with each other. Many people have said that we are unfilial, and we question them too : Are you sure you have the right to say that? In fact - I notice that a number of those who said that did the same, thus making them hypocrites.

Under the law we are required to do so, however most of my generation (between 20-30) just only do the bare minimum of giving money every month, then when they are ill, just lob them into the nearest nursing home - we will just pay for that.

The loneliness stems from long-time communications between the parents and kids, not the number of children the former has. It isn't like playing the stock market of "divide and conquer" where you laterally spread your assets just in case one makes an unexpected loss; your children aren't supposed to be monetary investments in the first place.
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