AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-08-12, 08:50   Link #8581
Roger Rambo
Sensei, aishite imasu
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
He's gone public lately as a form of protection against those who want wikileaks shut down, but that only works if the citizens of each country speak up in support. Also, if you can donate time or money to wikileaks, I'd encourage you to do so.
Why should I support some idiot who goes out and reveals the names and locations of informants because he's to lazy to sift through the information he leaks?
Roger Rambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 11:46   Link #8582
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
That's the devil's choice here.... the *purpose* of the press is to keep the government honest. But in this case, we've got an idiot at the "press" wheel who is too lazy to do the "journalist" work.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 12:41   Link #8583
Jinto
Asuki-tan Kairin ↓
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 33
It is always the messenger that gets shot
It doesn't matter if the names were leaked or not. The whole war business is dirty, and every informant that wants to earn money in such a war has to live with the risk to be uncovered... moreso if he works for an incompetent "employer". (I am not saying that other countrie's intelligence services are much better)
Jinto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 13:14   Link #8584
Solace
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
So, the important question here is: What did Wikileaks really do for public interest, in this one very specific example? I really don't see much value-add at all. On the other hand, the information it wilfully revealed carries potential harm to informants, and it certainly goes further towards sapping public and military morale, further hampering already troubled efforts on the ground in Afghanistan.
These leaks don't do anything extra to harm those informants (if they're even still around/in use...something people tend to neglect is that these documents go all the way back to something like 2004-2006). I get that people would be irate about the *possibility* that informants might die from these leaks but it hasn't happened yet...at least not in any publicly known manner that ties those deaths with Wikileaks.

What the documents do show is that the US has been fighting the same crappy fights in Iraq and Afghanistan for at least half a decade with no real improvement. Both nations are unstable, corrupt, and full of opportunists that have found great use in having the US be at war for a decade in two politically charged areas of the world.

In short, it's a losing battle and the Wikileaks have demonstrated that no tactics have really changed things for the better. Meanwhile lots of lives are being lost, lots of money is being spent (much of going to the wrong people), and the US honestly has nothing to show for it. The US can't sustain the wars with the economic damages at home, and the public is tired of money going down the drain and their sons and daughters coming home in body bags with no real results. Is the nation really any safer since the implementation of the Patriot Act, Homeland Security, wiretapping, controversial war prisoner facilities embroiled in highly questionable ethics practices, or these wars? No.

Condemn the practices of Wikileaks, but you can't ignore the truth. The wars were and are a waste of time and money for all but those who gained or stand to gain profit and power from it. Consider this when pondering the rhetoric the US leaders have been giving North Korea and Iran. US foreign policy needs to change, drastically and for the better, or it will be the nations undoing.

Every day, month, year, that these wars continue is a reminder that Eisenhower was so sadly right.
__________________
Solace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 13:19   Link #8585
Xellos-_^
Married
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
These leaks don't do anything extra to harm those informants (if they're even still around/in use...something people tend to neglect is that these documents go all the way back to something like 2004-2006). I get that people would be irate about the *possibility* that informants might die from these leaks but it hasn't happened yet...at least not in any publicly known manner that ties those deaths with Wikileaks.
not just the informant but the informants family as well.

Quote:
What the documents do show is that the US has been fighting the same crappy fights in Iraq and Afghanistan for at least half a decade with no real improvement. Both nations are unstable, corrupt, and full of opportunists that have found great use in having the US be at war for a decade in two politically charged areas of the world.
as TRL said nothing new here.

if anyone was actually surprise, they haven't been paying attention to the last 8 years.
__________________
Xellos-_^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 13:45   Link #8586
Solace
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
not just the informant but the informants family as well.
It's a risk taken regardless of the leaks. And until there's proof the leaks did cause a death, it's speculation of what could happen and not evidence that it will happen.

Quote:
as TRL said nothing new here.

if anyone was actually surprise, they haven't been paying attention to the last 8 years.
And general dismissal and apathy is an excuse because?

People keep expecting the smoking gun in these leaks (since the size is comparable to the Pentagon Papers that did have a smoking gun) but that wasn't the point of releasing them. Instead they're more concerned that the leaks might kill informants despite ignoring the irony that these people are involved in brutal wars that shouldn't even be occurring, and despite the attempts of the government to assure the public that things are getting better....they aren't. They're no better now than they were five or six years ago, and yet for some stupid reason the government wants to keep the wars going, throwing precious lives and money into a pit that won't make the efforts worth it (except for the few who've managed to gain quite nicely from it).

They'll happily vote for more money spent on the military but balk at the 15 million (and growing) people unemployed in the US who rely on benefits just to barely make it to the next pay date to avoid being homeless or having their kids go without food. There's something very wrong with that picture.
__________________
Solace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 14:24   Link #8587
Kaijo
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.
Send a message via AIM to Kaijo Send a message via MSN to Kaijo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Why should I support some idiot who goes out and reveals the names and locations of informants because he's to lazy to sift through the information he leaks?
Um, I think you have your facts wrong, because they DID go sift through the information. They revealed that they had it, and it was months before they started posting things, specifically because they were sifting through and redacting things. They had also sent word to the Pentagon, asking for their help in redacting out sensible information. Then they released them a few bunches at a time when the Pentagon blew them off. And not all the documents have been released because they are still going through the remainder to redact anything too sensitive.

Seriously, they took every step they could have. I can understand it if you think they shouldn't have released them at all. I disagree, but i understand that stance. But let's stick with the facts about what they did do.

And like I mentioned before, I would prefer it if Wikileaks weren't necessary; that the US would release this information on it's own (with appropriate redactions to protect innocents on the ground) or that tradtional media would do it's job as the 4th branch and report on this stuff in a wide fashion.

Barring those perfect solutions, this is the next best thing. It's like voting for the lesser of two evils in a presidential election, heh.
Kaijo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 14:29   Link #8588
ChainLegacy
廉頗
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts, US
Age: 24
Indeed, and if anyone has studied history they know empires are usually undone by a combination of overexerted military and economic concerns... we shouldn't be so naive as to pretend the US is immune.
ChainLegacy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 14:43   Link #8589
Xellos-_^
Married
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
Indeed, and if anyone has studied history they know empires are usually undone by a combination of overexerted military and economic concerns... we shouldn't be so naive as to pretend the US is immune.
as long as you are studying real history and not revisionist history. *cough*texas*cough*
__________________
Xellos-_^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 15:35   Link #8590
Kaijo
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.
Send a message via AIM to Kaijo Send a message via MSN to Kaijo
Just as a followup to what I posted earlier, and to show the diligence that's going on:

WikiLeaks preparing to release 15,000 remaining Afghan intelligence files

Spoiler for Article:
Kaijo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 16:19   Link #8591
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
It's a risk taken regardless of the leaks. And until there's proof the leaks did cause a death, it's speculation of what could happen and not evidence that it will happen.
It'd be funny if it happens, the governments try to hide it because they don't want to panic their informants and potential informants, and Wikileak reveals it.
Anh_Minh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-12, 22:00   Link #8592
Hage-bai
Banned
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Just as a followup to what I posted earlier, and to show the diligence that's going on:

WikiLeaks preparing to release 15,000 remaining Afghan intelligence files

Spoiler for Article:
He is combing through them now? If he did it before, he did a shity job.

Hopefully that wannabe whistle-blower loser learnt a thing or 2 from his last few leaks. This guy is getting a lot of PR and money for his recent shitty leaks in regards to Iraq and Afghanistan. Good for him I suppose. Now whats next for him?...fade into anonymity? I hope. But he'll probably spend all his money like the loser he is and try and coax another American into committing treason. One thing everyone is right about....if we continue to be engaged in the middle east, this parasite will always find a reason to get back in the news.

This topic should also have gone away..months ago when he released his Iraq propaganda tape.

*EDIT*
edit here because i got to this a while later and don't want to add more posts about this sorry loser:
Response to Jinto below: uh uh....The Iraq Collateral murder wasn't a propaganda tape..right..Run along now..

Response to Kaijo...I don't know. I defer my answer to "the one" and his minions who run this country and who have commented on it extensively.

Last edited by Hage-bai; 2010-08-19 at 21:11.
Hage-bai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-13, 02:09   Link #8593
Jinto
Asuki-tan Kairin ↓
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hage-bai View Post
...
This topic should also have gone away..months ago when he released his Iraq propaganda tape.
Do you even know what is propaganda and what not? Say, if you were influenced by propaganda, wouldn't you believe that anything that is different from that propaganda (even unbiased "truth") is propaganda?
To separate the facts from propaganda is very hard for everyone here, so don't act like you know it all. At least to me, the mere publication of documents seems to be less biased than any news report... you can read the material and come to your own conclusions - no predefined POV by someone else.
Jinto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-13, 03:11   Link #8594
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
Do you even know what is propaganda and what not? Say, if you were influenced by propaganda, wouldn't you believe that anything that is different from that propaganda (even unbiased "truth") is propaganda?
To separate the facts from propaganda is very hard for everyone here, so don't act like you know it all. At least to me, the mere publication of documents seems to be less biased than any news report... you can read the material and come to your own conclusions - no predefined POV by someone else.
I agree. Not very often when you read news articles then suddenly have that "something is missing" alarm ringing on your intuition-powered radar.

Propaganda is considered lying, presentation of untrue facts. Half-truths are more common than that these days considering that the internet has made possible for bit and pieces of information to float around the web, since it only requires quoting parts of the entire report to make it seem credible. However, either way still makes it biased.

To the end, it still boils down to the "can't be bothered" attitude of most Earthlings. A small proportion of these are lazy, while the rest are just plain stupid.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-13, 09:17   Link #8595
Kaijo
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.
Send a message via AIM to Kaijo Send a message via MSN to Kaijo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hage-bai View Post
He is combing through them now? If he did it before, he did a shity job.
He went through the others, too. They were released in batches as they were completed. Hell, it took months for the first batch to be done, since it took so long to go through. This is just the last batch. And how did he do a "shity" job?
Kaijo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-13, 12:31   Link #8596
MrTerrorist
Takao Tsundere Cruiser
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Classified
US Muslims prep for Islamic holiday — around 9/11

Well ain't that awkward. I hope there won't be any misunderstanding if Eid does fall on 9/11 and politicians on both sides are ready to defend their Muslims citizens should some idiot think it's a celebration of terror when it's not.
__________________
MrTerrorist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-13, 13:01   Link #8597
Haak
CAKE!
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 23
Gaaah. Eid is always wonderful because we can finally stop fasting. I don't want to have it ruined by such an unfortunate coincidence.
__________________
Haak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-13, 14:53   Link #8598
Xellos-_^
Married
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Gaaah. Eid is always wonderful because we can finally stop fasting. I don't want to have it ruined by such an unfortunate coincidence.
can you guys go with lunar calendar 9/11 instead of the Gregorian?
__________________
Xellos-_^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-13, 20:00   Link #8599
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
can you guys go with lunar calendar 9/11 instead of the Gregorian?
But I thought than they where basing the date of Eid on the lunar calendar.
__________________

ganbaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-08-13, 21:38   Link #8600
monir
cho~ kakkoii
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
Here is a good one....

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/14/wo...y.html?_r=1&hp

I hope Germany completes the whole turn around...!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
But I thought than they where basing the date of Eid on the lunar calendar.
They are!
__________________
Eat and sleep! And Solace. Sig by RRW.
Space Brothers Executive member of the ASS. Ready to flee at the first sign of trouble.
monir is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
current affairs, discussion, international, news

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 23:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.