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Old 2010-08-27, 06:27   Link #8821
MrTerrorist
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That's old news.

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Old 2010-08-27, 06:53   Link #8822
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North Korea tells Carter wants to resume nuclear talks

Quote:
(Reuters) - North Korea's number two leader has told former President Jimmy Carter that the reclusive state is committed to denuclearizing the peninsula and resuming six-way talks, the North's state news agency said on Friday.

Carter left the North on Friday morning, KCNA said. The Carter Center in a statement from the former president said that he was leaving Pyongyang with an American who had been convicted of illegally entering the country.

"Kim Yong Nam expressed the will of the DPRK government for the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula and the resumption of the six-party talks," KCNA said, referring to the meeting of the North's number two with Carter.

Carter's visit took place amid heightened tensions on the peninsula after the torpedoing in March of a South Korean warship, which Seoul blames on the North and which prompted Washington to announce expanded sanctions against Pyongyang.

Shortly after Carter arrived in Pyongyang, the North's reclusive leader, Kim Jong-il, left for ally China on a surprise trip that analysts believe may be to line up Beijing behind his dynastic succession plans.

Carter was leaving Pyongyang with Aijalon Mahli Gomes, who was arrested in January and sentenced to eight years of hard labor. KCNA said last month that he had tried to commit suicide.
EDIT :

Japan opens up "sterile" gallows to media

Quote:
(Reuters) - Japan opened up its gallows to local media for the first time on Friday, a move that could spark debate in a country where the majority supports the death penalty.

Justice Minister Keiko Chiba has called for more disclosure and discussion on executions in light of a lay judge system introduced last year under which ordinary citizens, along with professional judges, can hand down death sentences.

Despite opposing capital punishment, Chiba signed off on the executions of two convicted killers and attended their hangings last month. She also set up a group to study the death penalty.

TV footage from inside the Tokyo Detention House showed the trap door, the viewing room and rooms where the inmate can meet a cleric, with a Buddhist altar and a Buddha statue. The noose was not shown.

"There was the smell of incense ... The impression was that of sterile objects in a clean, carpeted room," said a reporter from broadcaster NTV.

Footage also showed the "button room", where three prison officers press a button at the same time to open the trap door, so that it is not clear which button opened the door.

Japan and the United States are the only Group of Eight rich countries that retain capital punishment. Japan has 107 inmates on death row.

An overwhelming majority supports the death penalty. Last year, 86 percent said in a government survey that retaining the death penalty was unavoidable, up from 80 percent in 1999, though a recent NHK public TV survey put support at 57 percent.

Experts are concerned at how little the public knows about the death penalty. The Justice Ministry in 2007 started releasing the names and crimes of inmates sentenced to death, but critics say the ministry still restricts information.

"(We) demand that the Japanese government ... fully disclose the reality of the death penalty system," human rights group Amnesty International said in a statement.

While some in the public were disturbed by the disclosure of the execution chamber, others welcomed the move.

"I think it's an honest and positive step to show the place where peoples' lives are taken in accordance to Japanese law," said Kazutoshi Yasui, 26. "It's better than hiding it."
I wished the Singaporean government followed suit. And that Amnesty International would STFU....they never did anything to secure release of the US citizens in NK, and now they want to make noise on countries' death penalties?

Seriously, get a life.
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Last edited by SaintessHeart; 2010-08-27 at 13:35.
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Old 2010-08-27, 14:33   Link #8823
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
We really got to do something about our communications with North Korea.

It's getting rather obnoxious how whenever we have to talk to them over something we need to send some ex president to see them.
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Old 2010-08-27, 15:21   Link #8824
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A new Knesset bill submitted by 25 Knesset members this week would make it illegal, if passed, for Israeli citizens to support or aid boycott on Israel or on Israeli products. Israelis who would initiate or help such boycotts – even if they deal only with the settlements – could be fined and forced to pay compensations to those hurt by the boycott.

http://www.promisedlandblog.com/?p=3032
is Israel really a Democracy?
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Old 2010-08-27, 15:54   Link #8825
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
is Israel really a Democracy?
I think they are the result of a long and ugly history of the world and Abrahamic religions.

Democracy or not, they are retreating back into their shell - that isn't good because they will be come the North Korea with nukes and high-tech military equipment of the 21st century.
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Old 2010-08-27, 16:12   Link #8826
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
is Israel really a Democracy?
absolutely.
you can tell by how frustrating it is.
and you can tell by the way that if the law is passed, the supreme court will probably strike it down as being unconstitutional.

boycotts, in this context, means advocating and encouraging other countries and organizations to try and damage Israel's economy as much as possible, for the purpose of aiding its enemies.

and a democracy means majority rule.
i guarantee you that by far the majority of Israelis would support actions taken against useful idiots who actively aid the enemy.
especially when those actions are about nothing more then double standards.

but like i said, the courts would probably deny it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I think they are the result of a long and ugly history of the world and Abrahamic religions.
its a result of a long and ugly history of Israel being singled out and held to standards of perfection that no one else is held to.
compare Israeli civilian to combatant kill ratio with that of the US, and you'll find that the US kills one militant for every ten civilians
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/...militant-za-09
Israel's figures are far better, and yet it gets far more criticism
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...ecise-1.236163

you can't throw a stick in the middle east without it landing on someone with a far worse human rights record then Israel's
and yet Israel remains the only country condemned by name by the UN human rights council (being the subject of over 50% of all its resolutions).
Israel continues to be singled out in the UN security council
by the general assembly
by the UNSCO
by humanitarian groups who routinely ignore everything else in the middle east and focus entirely on the LEAST offensive country there.

hell, the US killed consideably more people in Falija then Israel did in Gaza, and yet there is no special investigation in that regard
there was a boarder despite in saudi arabia/ yemen boarder in 2009 that killed almost 10,000 people, and most will never hear about it.
hell, there is litteraly no mention in the international media concerning the over war in congo this past decade that resulted in 5 MILLION DEATHS !!!!

the main problem with Israel, is the almost pathological obsession that the rest of the world has with it.
you've had over a million deaths in the civil war in iraq this past decade.
but ask people on the street what the "middle east conflict" is, and i damn well guarantee that their response would be the arab israeli conflict (which hasn't produced even 1% of that death toll in the comparable time, and not even 10% of that during its entire HISTORY)

anyone would be touchy after several decades of that shit
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Old 2010-08-27, 18:07   Link #8827
Kamui4356
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
its a result of a long and ugly history of Israel being singled out and held to standards of perfection that no one else is held to.
compare Israeli civilian to combatant kill ratio with that of the US, and you'll find that the US kills one militant for every ten civilians
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/...militant-za-09
Israel's figures are far better, and yet it gets far more criticism
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...ecise-1.236163
Wait, what?
Quote:
Turns out it is possible. Reducing the number of civilian casualties in the attacks on Gaza was one of the first tasks Halutz's heir as IAF chief, Eliezer Shkedi, marked out for himself. The data improved commensurately. From a 1:1 ratio between killed terrorists and civilians in 2003 to a 1:28 ratio in late 2005. Several IAF mishaps in 2006 lowered the ratio to 1:10, but the current ratio is at its lowest ever - more than 1:30.
"From a 1:1 ratio between killed terrorists and civilians." So one terrorist for every civilian killed. That's ok but... "to a 1:28 ratio." So, one terrorist for every 28 civilians killed? Either the way they worded that is backwards, or this is a case of chocolate rations being increased from 65 grams to 30 grams thanks to the benevolence of big brother.

Either way though, do Israel and the US define terrorists in the exact same way? If could very well be some of those terrorists would have been defined as civilians by the US.
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Old 2010-08-27, 18:13   Link #8828
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
Wait, what?


"From a 1:1 ratio between killed terrorists and civilians." So one terrorist for every civilian killed. That's ok but... "to a 1:28 ratio." So, one terrorist for every 28 civilians killed? Either the way they worded that is backwards, or this is a case of chocolate rations being increased from 65 grams to 30 grams thanks to the benevolence of big brother.

Either way though, do Israel and the US define terrorists in the exact same way? If could very well be some of those terrorists would have been defined as civilians by the US.
bingo
in 2005, IDF strikes killed 28 terrorist/militants/combatants for every civilian.

and the US defines it the same way that Israel does.
Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the varius other groups in Gaza are considered terrorist groups by both, and militants belonging to those groups are therefore terrorists
and you can substitute the word "terrorist" for "militant" if it matters all that much to you.

the MAIN point being that the US record when it comes to targeted killings results in much more civilian deaths then the Israel one.
guess who gets more blame.
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Old 2010-08-27, 18:26   Link #8829
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
bingo
in 2005, IDF strikes killed 28 terrorist/militants/combatants for every civilian.

and the US defines it the same way that Israel does.
Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the varius other groups in Gaza are considered terrorist groups by both, and militants belonging to those groups are therefore terrorists
and you can substitute the word "terrorist" for "militant" if it matters all that much to you.

the MAIN point being that the US record when it comes to targeted killings results in much more civilian deaths then the Israel one.
guess who gets more blame.
But how do they define who is a member of the terrorist group, and who's some random guy in the wrong place at the wrong time? Most terrorists don't have a membership card and secret decoder ring saying they belong to such and such a group.
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Old 2010-08-27, 18:40   Link #8830
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
But how do they define who is a member of the terrorist group, and who's some random guy in the wrong place at the wrong time? Most terrorists don't have a membership card and secret decoder ring saying they belong to such and such a group.
either the target is identified beforehand by sources on the ground (Gaza is packed with informants) and you know exactly who and where they are.
or you pick up radio/cellular chat indicating who they are.
or there is evidence on the ground on them carrying weapons (weapons don't simply mean guns, they could mean rocket launchers and stuff) and setting up for a launch.
or they are hiding inside structures known to belong to Hamas/Islamic jihad/whatever
or they can be secretly approaching the security fence around Gaza (the boarder between Gaza and Israel) which they have no reason doing other then trying to cause mischief (read: plant IEDs)
there are many ways to identify the target before attacking (otherwise, whats the point of attacking)

Israel has a considerably easier time at this then the US does.
Gaza is a small area, just a couple of miles from Israel proper, and completely covered by UAV's at all times.
smalelr area, means a handful of UAV's can cover it completely.
also, the size of Gaza and the massive presence of informants means that you can take your time tracking the target.

the US strikes in Pakistan are in a very large area, which most of the time happen with rather limited Intel
there is so much ground to cover, and limited UAV's to cover it, that you can't really take your time.
you have a target right now, but in a couple of minutes you might lose it forever.
so the US often attacks targets even though there will be massive collateral damage, mainly because its a now or never deal.

the Israeli air force can track a target for hours on end, and only strike when there is a limited civilian presence.
also, US strikes (and in the past, Israeli strikes) use hellfire missiles that are originally designed to kill tanks (and therefore have much more explosives)
Israeli strikes (either from UAV or Helo) use smaller missiles that cause much less collateral damage (i'm pretty sure the US is also developing better ones)
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Old 2010-08-27, 19:33   Link #8831
Kamui4356
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
either the target is identified beforehand by sources on the ground (Gaza is packed with informants) and you know exactly who and where they are.
or you pick up radio/cellular chat indicating who they are.
or there is evidence on the ground on them carrying weapons (weapons don't simply mean guns, they could mean rocket launchers and stuff) and setting up for a launch.
or they are hiding inside structures known to belong to Hamas/Islamic jihad/whatever
or they can be secretly approaching the security fence around Gaza (the boarder between Gaza and Israel) which they have no reason doing other then trying to cause mischief (read: plant IEDs)
there are many ways to identify the target before attacking (otherwise, whats the point of attacking)

Israel has a considerably easier time at this then the US does.
Gaza is a small area, just a couple of miles from Israel proper, and completely covered by UAV's at all times.
smalelr area, means a handful of UAV's can cover it completely.
also, the size of Gaza and the massive presence of informants means that you can take your time tracking the target.

the US strikes in Pakistan are in a very large area, which most of the time happen with rather limited Intel
there is so much ground to cover, and limited UAV's to cover it, that you can't really take your time.
you have a target right now, but in a couple of minutes you might lose it forever.
so the US often attacks targets even though there will be massive collateral damage, mainly because its a now or never deal.

the Israeli air force can track a target for hours on end, and only strike when there is a limited civilian presence.
also, US strikes (and in the past, Israeli strikes) use hellfire missiles that are originally designed to kill tanks (and therefore have much more explosives)
Israeli strikes (either from UAV or Helo) use smaller missiles that cause much less collateral damage (i'm pretty sure the US is also developing better ones)
You say yourself, though, the US doesn't do it that way. If they aren't using the same method of determining who's the terrorist and who's the civilian, comparing the numbers is pointless.
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Old 2010-08-27, 19:48   Link #8832
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
You say yourself, though, the US doesn't do it that way. If they aren't using the same method of determining who's the terrorist and who's the civilian, comparing the numbers is pointless.
my main point is that the US uses less credible intel, and kills many more civilians, and yet israel gets much more blame and is held to a higher standard that can't possibly be lived up to.

i'll give you another example of this obsession.
the entire Israeli palestinian conflict, in all 62 years of it, has produced roughly 20,000 casualties on all sides (again, its in 62 years)
during the same time, you have had, just to name a few :
Kurdish-Iraqi War 100,000-105,000 deaths
North Yemen Civil War 100,000-150,000
Lebanese Civil War 150,000-170,000
Gulf War 40,000-57,000
Iranian Revolution 7,500-80,000
Black September in Jordan 25,000 killed (more palestinians were killed in one MONTH by Jordan, then Israel killed during its entire existence)
1991 uprisings in Iraq 60,000-100,000
Al-Anfal Campaign in Iraq 182,000
Muslim Brotherhood-Syria conflict 40,000
Iran-Iraq war 1,000,000
Iraq War around 1,000,000
and many other conflicts all around.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...he_Middle_East
chances are that you've never even heard about most of these conflicts, but they all happened in the middle east, and are all far more brutal and bloody then the Israeli palestinian conflict.

what exactly, makes the Israeli Palestinian conflict so unique that its called "the middle east conflict" ?
why are people talking about peace talks in the context of that conflict as "peace in the middle east" ?
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Old 2010-08-27, 23:39   Link #8833
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
what exactly, makes the Israeli Palestinian conflict so unique that its called "the middle east conflict" ?
why are people talking about peace talks in the context of that conflict as "peace in the middle east" ?
Because they are useful idiots.
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Old 2010-08-28, 02:49   Link #8834
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I doubt very highly, that we will ever see peace between Israel and Palestine. Not as long as the Palestinians brainwash their kids into suicide bombing themselves in Israeli pizzerias...
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Old 2010-08-28, 03:27   Link #8835
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I doubt very highly, that we will ever see peace between Israel and Palestine. Not as long as the Palestinians brainwash their kids into suicide bombing themselves in Israeli pizzerias...
If at least it was the only problem; the situation is way more complicate than that.
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Old 2010-08-28, 04:07   Link #8836
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If at least it was the only problem; the situation is way more complicate than that.
Well, most ME parents and societies still brand Jews as unclean and Israel as an illegitimate state.

Suposedly in 1948, that stretch of land had evicted all non-Jews to make it a full jewish state. It is a huge mistake that US made at that time against the Russians during the Cold War - Israel is nothing but a proxy state for the US as the Russians are supplying the other ME countries with arms.

It is a 21st century crusade. It is not like the Jews wanted to give the Muslims trouble - the part in the Koran where Prophet Muhammad hammered the Jews for going back on their promises is overquoted as a "crusade against the Jews". That is racism known as anti-semitism, not a religious belief.
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Old 2010-08-28, 05:16   Link #8837
MrTerrorist
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Beck under fire for rally on civil rights anniversary

What an idiot. He should have just move the rally on Sunday or something.
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Old 2010-08-28, 06:04   Link #8838
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
Beck under fire for rally on civil rights anniversary

What an idiot. He should have just move the rally on Sunday or something.
Quote:
"I've heard it over and over again in the media that because of this event, on the date of this event, I'm somehow or another hijacking Dr Martin Luther King's speech. I'm not big enough to do that. No-one is."
You know, it's funny to see such modesty after seeing this.
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Old 2010-08-28, 06:33   Link #8839
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
Beck under fire for rally on civil rights anniversary

What an idiot. He should have just move the rally on Sunday or something.
Isn't this supposed to be in the Silly news thread?
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Old 2010-08-28, 08:00   Link #8840
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Isn't this supposed to be in the Silly news thread?
He's taking back the Civil Rights movement for the white folks. It's major news!
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