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Old 2010-09-09, 08:17   Link #8961
Marcus H.
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You have a point there.

The media's not really helping and is adding more fuel to the fire.

On the same article, one guy did give a nice suggestion: when that priest does his stuff, don't watch. Leave him to burn that Quran to ashes.
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Old 2010-09-09, 08:32   Link #8962
Nosauz
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If this guy can burn a bunch of korans, then the people who want to build a mosque/civic center 2 blocks away from ground zero can, freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Doesn't mean I can't call him a bigot/idiot which he is. Again in the United States you don't have the right to be not offended.
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Old 2010-09-09, 08:44   Link #8963
ganbaru
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
For fuck's sake, someone please burn that pastor before his actions engulf the world in flames.
Not sure than burning this moron would calm the crowd.
But would they prefer to get their own bible-for-burning ?
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Old 2010-09-09, 09:45   Link #8964
Ascaloth
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You know, every time I hear about the Internal Security Department in my country inviting people to "have coffee" and start getting angry about them clamping down on the speech of Singaporeans, I just need to look towards the US, and I always go "hmmm, I guess those ISD people aren't so bad after all. Things could certainly be worse without them around."
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Old 2010-09-09, 10:58   Link #8965
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosauz View Post
If this guy can burn a bunch of korans, then the people who want to build a mosque/civic center 2 blocks away from ground zero can, freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Doesn't mean I can't call him a bigot/idiot which he is. Again in the United States you don't have the right to be not offended.
That's what is quintessentially American... and why it scares the parts of the world where people want to dictate what you think, read, or say.

Not that Americans don't have their own "silence the different thinking" faction. Its just that we've got that pesky "rule of law via the Constitution" to trip them up.

And yes, this guy is a maroon... BUT he also exemplifies what is dangerous and wrong about religion. "My version of sky faeries is right and yours is wrong and I'm going to kill you until you see it my way" .... insert any aggressive religious sect of choice.

The proper response to extremist Islamic threats (or Christian threats or Jewish threats, etc) is basically "f*** you, I don't belong to your religion and stop trying to enforce it on me." That's what the proper American response should be to *any* such nonsense (be it the Christian Creationists, the Gush Emunim, Wahhabi, or whatever).
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Old 2010-09-09, 11:12   Link #8966
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But the question is, does this man's planned action have the capacity to cause enough of a potential threat for more than just Americans to the point that it may be better for the greater good just to stop him?

Because at this point in global affairs you'd have to be living under a rock not to know consciously that stunts like this is going to piss someone off in some manner. It may be okay over on that side of the Pacific, but everything pisses someone off somewhere, especially things like this. America can't simply brush this off and tell other nations to fuck off and suck it up when you've gotten too many eyes judging you for blatant insensitivity. Again it may be fair game for the nation, but fair game isn't always fair when you have to play ball with the rest of the world.
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Old 2010-09-09, 11:26   Link #8967
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
But the question is, does this man's planned action have the capacity to cause enough of a potential threat for more than just Americans to the point that it may be better for the greater good just to stop him?

Because at this point in global affairs you'd have to be living under a rock not to know consciously that stunts like this is going to piss someone off in some manner. It may be okay over on that side of the Pacific, but everything pisses someone off somewhere, especially things like this. America can't simply brush this off and tell other nations to fuck off and suck it up when you've gotten too many eyes judging you for blatant insensitivity. Again it may be fair game for the nation, but fair game isn't always fair when you have to play ball with the rest of the world.
Europe is having to deal with this head on (e.g. the Netherlands, etc). Do we kowtow to every zealot and their version of 'sky faeries' who demands you not offend them in any way? Talk about racing to the bottom of the pit of oppression.... :P

Yeah, its a balance. And this idiot in Florida is seeking attention (which the news media is bathing him in rather than covering "actually important stuff"). Basically, he's burning books (ala Catch-22, Tom Sawyer, and other books that have been burned) and should be made fun of and pelted with tomatoes. But I'd probably be hurling watermelons at anyone issuing death threats over it.

Last edited by Vexx; 2010-09-09 at 15:53. Reason: bad choice of nouns....
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Old 2010-09-09, 11:28   Link #8968
justinstrife
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Why people are even giving this Pastor such attention is beyond me. He got exactly what he wanted, and the media, and the rest of the world gave it to him. If everyone just ignored him, he'd eventually go away.

The guy belongs to what, a 50 member church? Not exactly a huge denomination. He's desperate for attention and he's getting it apparently.
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Old 2010-09-09, 12:31   Link #8969
bladeofdarkness
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it was inevitable

Quote:
Iran: Zionists behind Koran-burning initiative
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...951979,00.html
Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki condemned a US church's initiative to burn Koran's on the anniversary of the September 11 attacks, claiming that "the Zionists are behind the move."

According to a report on Iran's official news agency, Mottaki warned that the "despicable initiative will draw Muslim reactions worldwide. He urged US authorities to prevent the burning of the books and safeguard the rights of American Muslims. (AFP)
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Old 2010-09-09, 12:47   Link #8970
sa547
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The damn thing about this... it's comparable to be in the brink of nuclear war; escalation on both sides. :|
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Old 2010-09-09, 13:06   Link #8971
flying ^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Why people are even giving this Pastor such attention is beyond me. He got exactly what he wanted, and the media, and the rest of the world gave it to him. If everyone just ignored him, he'd eventually go away.

The guy belongs to what, a 50 member church? Not exactly a huge denomination. He's desperate for attention and he's getting it apparently.
These guys are taking a page out of Westboro Babptist church.
I won't be surprised if some of their members in that Florida church are as legal-savvy as WBC.

(edit) btw I think that Florida church might be breaking a state/local law and may get fined because they didn't get the permit from state or local authorities to burn trash outside (not implying that a holy book = trash)
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Old 2010-09-09, 13:08   Link #8972
Vexx
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Quote:
According to a report on Iran's official news agency, Mottaki warned that the "despicable initiative will draw Muslim reactions worldwide. He urged US authorities to prevent the burning of the books and safeguard the rights of American Muslims. (AFP)
Well.. that certainly underscores how some don't understand how "rights" work. If someone burns a copy of a book I hold dear and holy, I may be annoyed with them but my "rights" have in no way been violated.

Quote:
These guys are taking a page out of Westboro Babptist church.
I won't be surprised if some of their members in that Florida church are as legal-savvy as WBC.
Yeah, and the nice thing about America's version of 'free speech' is that it makes it easier for the public to keep an eye on the clowns and morons.
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Old 2010-09-09, 13:16   Link #8973
sa547
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Got it from Peter Payne's tweeter feed:

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/09/09...rchs-web-site/
Quote:
Now involved: Rackspace. Yes, the popular Web host has pulled the plug on the church’s Web site, citing a violation in its service’s “hate-speech provision of [its] acceptable-use policy.”
Owned!
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Old 2010-09-09, 13:56   Link #8974
Vexx
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The comments under the Peter Payne article are hilarious....
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Old 2010-09-09, 14:37   Link #8975
Haak
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
I wonder this doesn't happen when the Bible is concerned, though.
To be honest I've trying to find examples of this and have only come across two, both of which were condemned completely. Maybe there are examples of this occuring but if so my google-fu is proving inadequate.
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Old 2010-09-09, 17:40   Link #8976
flying ^
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http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/201...er=rss&emc=rss
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Old 2010-09-09, 18:20   Link #8977
james0246
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^Please, in the future post an explanation of the link you are providing.
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Old 2010-09-09, 19:58   Link #8978
Marcus H.
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OH, GUESS WHAT?

Pastor says Quran-burning suspended, not canceled
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/quran_burning

Spoiler for long text:
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Old 2010-09-09, 20:10   Link #8979
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Suppose the Quran burning does get canceled, would it be a victory for tolerance or a defeat for free speech?

The Christian pastor is an idiot for believing Islam causes more harm than any other religion. But it's troubling that an active military general would ask a citizen not to burn a book in a country where freedom of speech and religion are supposed to be a sacred rights. And I'd be willing to bet more Bibles have been burnt by atheists in America than Qurans by Christians. (Whenever missionaries showed up at my high school many of the Bibles they handed out would end up in the trash.)
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Old 2010-09-09, 20:38   Link #8980
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
You know, every time I hear about the Internal Security Department in my country inviting people to "have coffee" and start getting angry about them clamping down on the speech of Singaporeans, I just need to look towards the US, and I always go "hmmm, I guess those ISD people aren't so bad after all. Things could certainly be worse without them around."
They aren't that bad. It is called a "greater good for everyone" thing. The only documented torture method is that they splash victims with cold water and put them in an office room with the air-con at full blast.

The last one incident about religion was a pastor putting down other religious leaders in a podcast. The ISD didn't do anything at first until those people at STOMP and sgcafe/sgforums started making noise (and someone specifically called for the ISD to lock that pastor up). The ISD called him in for questioning and forced him to denounce his actions.

I don't think Singaporeans are ready for the responsibility of freedom of speech. Remember the IMF protest 4 years ago? The government nicely set up barricades for the people and nobody turned up.

On the contrary, I think that most Singaporeans are a bunch of closet otaku salarymen who only care if their anime/manga/soccer is being capped by the media distribution organisations - see the Odex figurine protest in 2008 and the red-card protest earlier this year for details.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
OH, GUESS WHAT?

Pastor says Quran-burning suspended, not canceled
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/quran_burning

<snip>
+1 for Trump. Although profit motive is in his mind (buying that piece of land would be a huge profit because of the media attention it receives for resale later on), buying up that land deters a mosque from being built on it for the time being, certainly a good move for "out of sight, out of mind" and quelling tensions.

Better for it to remain empty than something built to heckle everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn Demon View Post
Suppose the Quran burning does get canceled, would it be a victory for tolerance or a defeat for free speech?
That is taking the freedom of speech into the wrong concept. Remember that whatever information that comes out of the mouth HAS to go through the cerebal cortex FIRST, thus one is free to say anything as long as it passes through the brain. The pastor never thought of the other religious leaders and their specific communities, so that isn't exactly the freedom of speech in the First Amendment, where it prohibits the making of any law 'respecting an establishment of religion', impeding the free exercise of religion, infringing on the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.

Hence the saying :

Quote:
People often cry out for the freedom of speech when the freedom of thought is seldom used.
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