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Old 2010-11-23, 16:44   Link #9981
Ithekro
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In a renewal of the Korean conflict, the country that should be the most worried (and likely is) is Japan. Aside from in South Korea, any of its allies will be operated from Japanese bases or America bases in Japan.

On the nuclear front, there is still only one country that has ever been on the receiving end of a nuclear attack....again, Japan. Unless someone gets depreate (or stupid) it will likely remain that way. After the Korean War, it was pretty much decided that nuclear weapons are a deturant weapon than anything else. Something to keep the major powers from fighting full out wars because of the threat of mutual destruction. This has not stopped smaller wars from happening, but does play a factor is just what goes down and what doesn't. Because it is pretty much a given right now...the first one to use a nuke is likely going to be on the receiving end from everyone elses nukes. The only exception to this would be if the five nuclear powers agreed on its use against a non-nuclear power that had become nuclear and a threat to all of them.
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Old 2010-11-23, 16:49   Link #9982
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
And he's likely doing it because he knows that North Korea can pretty much act with impunity. The last time war came to the northern part of the Korean peninsula, it ended badly for the largely American-led invasion, no thanks to the human-wave tactics of the People's Liberation Army of China.
If human wave tactics were the only thing the PLA had brought to Korea, they'd have all been merrily wiped out by the much better armed US forces. What actually happened is that the Chinese proved they had excellent Bivouac discipline, which allowed them to move entire infantry divisions without being detected by American air recon. Once they'd gotten to the American formations (who were arrayed completely unprepared for an attack, based on MacArthurs infinite wisdom that the Chinese would never intervene), they'd split their formations up to small levels and encircle the Americans.

The Americans called it human wave tactics because to call it anything else would be admitting that the Chinese outmaneuvered the Americans who weren't paying enough attention. That makes you look stupid, where as being overwhelmed by superior numbers makes you look heroic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
it is not really the same thing this time around. besides the politicians tied McArthur's hands. He wanted to use nukes but they said no.
Probably because Truman wasn't an ego driven lunatic like MacArthur, and realized there would be long term consequences to setting the precedent of using Nuclear weapons flippantly, the concerns of which superseded MacArthurs ego.

The United States had no interest in fighting a war with China. Hence Truman trying to get reassurance from MacArthur that China wouldn't get involved. When China did get involved, Truman considered the objective to broker a cease fire. MacArthur being a dumbass, went over the head of his commanding officer and demanded the Chinese surrender immediately or face the US expanding the war into mainland China.

Truman could have done ALLOT more than fire MacArthur. He could have (and maybe should have) had his ass court martial-ed.
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Old 2010-11-23, 16:52   Link #9983
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
In a renewal of the Korean conflict, the country that should be the most worried (and likely is) is Japan. Aside from in South Korea, any of its allies will be operated from Japanese bases or America bases in Japan.

On the nuclear front, there is still only one country that has ever been on the receiving end of a nuclear attack....again, Japan. Unless someone gets depreate (or stupid) it will likely remain that way. After the Korean War, it was pretty much decided that nuclear weapons are a deturant weapon than anything else. Something to keep the major powers from fighting full out wars because of the threat of mutual destruction. This has not stopped smaller wars from happening, but does play a factor is just what goes down and what doesn't. Because it is pretty much a given right now...the first one to use a nuke is likely going to be on the receiving end from everyone elses nukes. The only exception to this would be if the five nuclear powers agreed on its use against a non-nuclear power that had become nuclear and a threat to all of them.
"You'd have to be crazy to use nukes" isn't as reassuring as it ought to be...
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Old 2010-11-23, 16:56   Link #9984
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
If human wave tactics were the only thing the PLA had brought to Korea, they'd have all been merrily wiped out by the much better armed US forces. What actually happened is that the Chinese proved they had excellent Bivouac discipline, which allowed them to move entire infantry divisions without being detected by American air recon. Once they'd gotten to the American formations (who were arrayed completely unprepared for an attack, based on MacArthurs infinite wisdom that the Chinese would never intervene), they'd split their formations up to small levels and encircle the Americans.
Ironically the US did China the best favor in the KW when they kill Mao's oldest son. He was sent to take part of the Korean war as part of his grooming as Mao eventually successor. The US killing him derail that plan. If US didn't kill him and he had successed Mao, it would be a closer to NK then is current form.
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Old 2010-11-23, 17:25   Link #9985
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
As for kimchi, since it is a Korean product, it must be produced in Korea, right? *puts on a blonde wig and wears fake 36C boobs*
( Do you have a particular blonde in mind ?)
It's a question than could be debated between Korea and Japan...
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Old 2010-11-23, 17:28   Link #9986
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Truman could have done ALLOT more than fire MacArthur. He could have (and maybe should have) had his ass court martial-ed.
He was the guy who planned and help win the Battle of Midway, which severely crippled the Japanese naval forces in World War 2, near Southeast Asia and Australia.

To CM him would be to CM a war hero and make the politicians look bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
( Do you have a particular blonde in mind ?)
It's a question than could be debated between Korea and Japan...
Please don't tell me you are into yaoi!

Well, actually, I used the term "kimchi supply" to denote how the rest of the world probably won't give a shit in a post-recession like this, to bother and boycott a purposeful invasion should one occur. To them (or at least their ill-informed citizens), Korea is just another producer of kimchi and bulgolgi, and has nothing to do with their pensions and university fees screwing up in their home country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
"You'd have to be crazy to use nukes" isn't as reassuring as it ought to be...
OH you don't have to worry if you are on the receiving side. If you are dead, you can't worry.

Reassuring isn't it?
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Old 2010-11-23, 17:43   Link #9987
Nosauz
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Look Truman's handling of MacArthur was kid gloves because of his war hero status, but even to Americans that treated him as such, their patience with his confrontation with Truman seemed to be wearing thin, especially with the political cartoons, and the overall reaction to the Korean War. Drafts just weren't popular especially when there were no implications like Japnese Imperialism or Hitler pushing America to fight.
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Old 2010-11-23, 17:45   Link #9988
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Please don't tell me you are into yaoi!

Well, actually, I used the term "kimchi supply" to denote how the rest of the world probably won't give a shit in a post-recession like this, to bother and boycott a purposeful invasion should one occur. To them (or at least their ill-informed citizens), Korea is just another producer of kimchi and bulgolgi, and has nothing to do with their pensions and university fees screwing up in their home country.
( no I am not , it's just than you gived some details (hair color and breast size ) than could indicate one or many woman, real or not )

It's a stupid behavior ( but still understandable given their lack of knowledge of the situation), given than such war would have a big impact on the national's budjet, and that would impact for sure on all the economy .
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Old 2010-11-23, 18:24   Link #9989
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
He was the guy who planned and help win the Battle of Midway, which severely crippled the Japanese naval forces in World War 2, near Southeast Asia and Australia.

To CM him would be to CM a war hero and make the politicians look bad.
He had nothing to do with midway. Are you thinking of the re-invasion of the Philippines? Though you are right about him being considered a war hero and that it would just make Truman look bad in the eyes of the public.
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Old 2010-11-23, 19:15   Link #9990
flying ^
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Best Quarter ever!
This one's for the record books

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/24/bu...econ.html?_r=1
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Old 2010-11-23, 21:39   Link #9991
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
Also the amount money needed to reconstruct the North is going to be enormous.
More than it cost rehabilitate Eastern Europe, the GDR in particular? I don't know the answer, but I'd bet reconstruction in the DPRK would end up costing less even though they have such a limited base to build on.
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Old 2010-11-23, 21:45   Link #9992
Kaioshin Sama
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My favourite response to the current Korean Peninsula standoff had to be Russia's:

Quote:
The Foreign Ministry stated that "the use of force is an unacceptable path [and that] [a]ny disputes in relations between the North and the South must be settled politically and diplomatically". Additionally, it urged both the sides "to demonstrate restraint and peace," and warned of a "colossal danger" and the "huge responsibility" of those behind the attack.
Source

Does anybody remember the South Ossetia War in 2008 and Russia's retaliation on Georgia for it's incursion into the protected territory? The use of force sure as hell didn't seem to be an unacceptable path then did it?

In any case you can bet China and the U.S are on high alert and ready to step in in some capacity should things escalate from here.
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Old 2010-11-23, 23:55   Link #9993
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
More than it cost rehabilitate Eastern Europe, the GDR in particular? I don't know the answer, but I'd bet reconstruction in the DPRK would end up costing less even though they have such a limited base to build on.
Errr,I don't exactly follow. I'd think North Korea having literally nothing to build on significantly increases the cost of rebuilding.


You also need to factor in things like Health Cost. Starvation/malnutrition has created a large segment of the North Korean populace with chronic medical conditions that will be very expensive to treat under the South Korean health care system. And those costs aren't going to be balanced out with new revenue from the North.
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Old 2010-11-24, 01:10   Link #9994
ChainLegacy
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Does NK have any natural resources that SK could use? I'm sure the cost will be high initially, but I can't help but feel 50 years down the road from reintegration the 'investment' would pay off. That's just my assumption though, I don't really know too much about the issue.
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Old 2010-11-24, 01:30   Link #9995
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainLegacy View Post
Does NK have any natural resources that SK could use? I'm sure the cost will be high initially, but I can't help but feel 50 years down the road from reintegration the 'investment' would pay off. That's just my assumption though, I don't really know too much about the issue.
I believe North Korea has more natural resources than the south. Though I'm not 100% sure on that.
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Old 2010-11-24, 01:36   Link #9996
GundamFan0083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Errr,I don't exactly follow. I'd think North Korea having literally nothing to build on significantly increases the cost of rebuilding.


You also need to factor in things like Health Cost. Starvation/malnutrition has created a large segment of the North Korean populace with chronic medical conditions that will be very expensive to treat under the South Korean health care system. And those costs aren't going to be balanced out with new revenue from the North.
According to many of the people who've escaped North Korea, that is very true.
Some claim that there is even cannibalism in N. Korea in certain areas where conditions are so horrible they have no other choice.

If these claims are in fact true, then this country's dictatorship needs to fall.
I realize the N. Korea/S. Korea situation is a dangerous powder-keg, but it's hard to hear about these poor people living in these conditions and not want to help them become free.
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Old 2010-11-24, 02:06   Link #9997
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
According to many of the people who've escaped North Korea, that is very true.
Some claim that there is even cannibalism in N. Korea in certain areas where conditions are so horrible they have no other choice.

If these claims are in fact true, then this country's dictatorship needs to fall.
I realize the N. Korea/S. Korea situation is a dangerous powder-keg, but it's hard to hear about these poor people living in these conditions and not want to help them become free.
This is similar to the difference of achieving something yourself and getting it forced down the throat. Which one of the both has a stronger, longer lasting effect... North Korea was a dictorship for many generations now, establishing a stable democracy cannot happen over night, because the system is too deep in the people's minds.

Btw. when you flee your country and you face potential extradiction from where you fled to... what would you claim in order to not to be send back? (The result is similar to torturing someone to get the "truth" out of him/her). So if you care about actual people, you don't want to wage a proxy war there. Because ideology likely plays into the hands of the northern regime. I suppose any action that is not coming from inside of North Korea will make the north korean people side with their regime. And the resulting blood bath is a disservice when you actually meant to help those people.
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Old 2010-11-24, 02:19   Link #9998
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
According to many of the people who've escaped North Korea, that is very true.
Some claim that there is even cannibalism in N. Korea in certain areas where conditions are so horrible they have no other choice.

If these claims are in fact true, then this country's dictatorship needs to fall.
I realize the N. Korea/S. Korea situation is a dangerous powder-keg, but it's hard to hear about these poor people living in these conditions and not want to help them become free.
I feel terrible for those poor people How can these upper officials live with themselves, causing such suffering?
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Old 2010-11-24, 04:41   Link #9999
Vexx
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Best Quarter ever!
This one's for the record books

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/24/bu...econ.html?_r=1
Apparently, its still Good To Be King ... or at least a robber baron. It just sucks for the vast majority.
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Old 2010-11-24, 05:48   Link #10000
ganbaru
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U.S. aircraft carrier heads for Korean waters
http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNew...6MN0SQ20101124
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