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Old 2010-12-05, 17:04   Link #10401
Asuras
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Assassins aren't as capable as you'd like to believe.
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Old 2010-12-05, 17:09   Link #10402
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by Asuras View Post
Assassins aren't as capable as you'd like to believe.
its not THAT he was assassinated.
its WHO assassinated him, and more importantly, why.
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Old 2010-12-05, 17:11   Link #10403
Asuras
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You claimed that bombs were surpassed by assassins. I can only see that your point is derailing.
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Old 2010-12-05, 17:16   Link #10404
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by Asuras View Post
You claimed that bombs were surpassed by assassins. I can only see that your point is derailing.
my point is that Iran was the one who assassinated them.
because they suspected that the good professors were working for western intelligence.
and the fact that they would do this means that Iran's under a lot of stress in regards to its nuclear program.
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Old 2010-12-05, 17:19   Link #10405
Asuras
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Then, why say there are stronger weapons than bombs? I'm either dumb, or not registering this properly.
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Old 2010-12-05, 17:28   Link #10406
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by Asuras View Post
Then, why say there are stronger weapons than bombs? I'm either dumb, or not registering this properly.
because while bombs can damage buildings, infomation and the right kinds of pressure can be far more powerful.

I'm saying that Iran's making grand claims of progress, but in practice is suffering severe setbacks.
for example, a recent report seems to indicated that most of their centrifuges in the Nataz uranium enrichment plant are offline at the moment due to technical problems (which some seem to think has something to do with that Stuxnet thing).
add to that the recent sanctions that are having a severe impact on their economy, which just this month meant they had to stop subsidizing fuel for their people (who aren't exactly happy about it).

and you have a very stressful Iran.
they have to be pretty stressed out to openly start murdering their own nuclear scientists for fear of them being moles.

my guess is, that the recent announcement about their "yellow cake" is simply an attempt to negotiate from a position of power so that they get a good deal in exchange for stopping their nuclear program.
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Old 2010-12-05, 17:30   Link #10407
Asuras
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Ah. Now I understand.

Iran's failure however isn't as settling to other countries as we'd like to think. Just the other day, I heard about a rather frightening discovery. After Russia left the Middle East, they left many nuclear reactors in their wake. Most were taken down and their fuel confiscated, but there was apparently one left untouched. British surveilance discovered an abandoned fission reactor filled with enough enriched uranium and weapons-grade plutonium to build over 700 nuclear explosives.

Imagine if someone else found it before we did. Iran may be building nuclear reactors, but there are those around who want these things specifically to hurt others. Bin Laden could have easily grabbed these and made off with it.
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Old 2010-12-05, 17:36   Link #10408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
Well, this would have been counter productive. Since who would control air traffic then? But the declaration of a spanish state of emergency and subsequent military enforcement of the work of the air traffic controlers left a bitter taste.
From what I read in that article, they were going to bring in the military personnel. There are more than a few who are able to do that job, and civilian wouldn't be anymore difficult to be honest.

Reagan had to deal with a similar situation back in the 80's.
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Old 2010-12-05, 17:45   Link #10409
Jinto
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Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
From what I read in that article, they were going to bring in the military personnel. There are more than a few who are able to do that job, and civilian wouldn't be anymore difficult to be honest.

Reagan had to deal with a similar situation back in the 80's.
I wouldn't put too much trust on military air traffic controlers in the civilian sectors (I'ld prefer the civilian staff who is used to the local air traffic anytime). This is at least partly a result of me having served in an european military.

Last edited by Jinto; 2010-12-05 at 17:57.
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Old 2010-12-05, 17:49   Link #10410
bladeofdarkness
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Originally Posted by Asuras View Post
Ah. Now I understand.

Iran's failure however isn't as settling to other countries as we'd like to think. Just the other day, I heard about a rather frightening discovery. After Russia left the Middle East, they left many nuclear reactors in their wake. Most were taken down and their fuel confiscated, but there was apparently one left untouched. British surveilance discovered an abandoned fission reactor filled with enough enriched uranium and weapons-grade plutonium to build over 700 nuclear explosives.

Imagine if someone else found it before we did. Iran may be building nuclear reactors, but there are those around who want these things specifically to hurt others. Bin Laden could have easily grabbed these and made off with it.
if we're talking non-government groups then there is not much to be done about it.
but those people would have to FIND those materials rather then produce it, since they wouldn't be able to construct the required reactors or enrichment centers.
the actual COUNTRIES in the middle east (who COULD build such tihngs) i'm less worried about, since they (Iran and possibly Syria aside) aren't trying to create nukes anyway.
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Old 2010-12-05, 18:02   Link #10411
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
You don't even have to register with your real name in the first place.
Unless Facebook somehow managed to check that my cat's name was really Simba. He has an awesome profile page, I'm jealous.
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Old 2010-12-05, 18:23   Link #10412
SaintessHeart
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Unless Facebook somehow managed to check that my cat's name was really Simba. He has an awesome profile page, I'm jealous.
That is nothing. I created a page for each of my waifus.
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-12-05, 18:26   Link #10413
Frenchie
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What's their names, may I friend them?
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Old 2010-12-05, 18:29   Link #10414
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
What's their names, may I friend them?
I am not giving away my true FB identity here!

Oh yes, and remind me to make a page for Shiori and Tenri from Kami nomi too.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-12-05, 18:51   Link #10415
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
I wouldn't put too much trust on military air traffic controlers in the civilian sectors (I'ld prefer the civilian staff who is used to the local air traffic anytime). This is at least partly a result of me having served in an european military.
Well maybe it is different in the European Military. I can't say as I have no experience over there, or even know anyone over there in the military.
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Old 2010-12-05, 18:58   Link #10416
iLney
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Girl asks for help with 200,000 $ debt

What kind of f**** idiot would agree to loan such amount for a worthless degree?
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Old 2010-12-05, 19:00   Link #10417
Asuras
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A dumb one, obviously.
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Old 2010-12-06, 00:59   Link #10418
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
I like how you ignore reality and logistics in your "analysis" then accuse people who point out the impossibility of it of ignoring logistics. I don't think you really comprehend the size of China, in terms of industry, population, or geography.
I comprehend the size of China. What most people do not comprehend is the size of being able to mobolize and move all the troops needed to take on the hardened DPRK troops who would be backed by the second most technologically advanced military in East Asia. Logistics, usable reserve manpower, technology are all on the side of a nuclear reunified Korea.

If you really want to keep this discussion going, I'm reading to crack out numbers. Your choice.

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Also, I do not believe for a moment that you aren't actually advocating this.
So? What you think does not make me the way you believe.
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Old 2010-12-06, 01:16   Link #10419
ZephyrLeanne
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Originally Posted by iLney View Post
Girl asks for help with 200,000 $ debt

What kind of f**** idiot would agree to loan such amount for a worthless degree?
Not totally worthless. Well-regarded in Asia. BUT foreigners need not apply. Seriously.
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Old 2010-12-06, 06:09   Link #10420
Kamui4356
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
I comprehend the size of China. What most people do not comprehend is the size of being able to mobolize and move all the troops needed to take on the hardened DPRK troops who would be backed by the second most technologically advanced military in East Asia. Logistics, usable reserve manpower, technology are all on the side of a nuclear reunified Korea.

If you really want to keep this discussion going, I'm reading to crack out numbers. Your choice.
You seem to be under the impression that your unified Korea could build up this force on the Northern border while China would do absolutely nothing to counter it. Also your reserve figure is likely going to include North Korea's which counts almost every person of military age. Further, as has been pointed out, even if the initial invasion is successful, China can trade land for time. Korea can't match an army China is capable of building. Just accept it, there is no way Korea can beat China. Any thinking to the contrary is a nationalist pipe dream. Also, need I point out that in the event of reunification, there would be no need for Korea to maintain such a large standing army.

You want numbers? The PLAAF has 1,617 combat aircraft. The two Koreas combined have around 1100 combat aircraft, though that includes over 200 mig-17 and mig-19 derivatives in service in North Korea. Before you say technological advantage, yes, those F-15ks are impressive, but both sides are mainly using 3rd generation fighters for numbers with a core force of 4th generation fighters. North Korea still has some 2nd generation fighters in service though.

On the ground? The PLA has 2,255,000 active service personal, with another 1,200,000 reserves. Note that unlike the Koreas, this is a volunteer force. If China needed to they could resort to conscription and tap the over 300 million men of military age. In addition there are 4,100,000 people in paramilitary organizations.

The KPA has 1,106,000 in its army, with 8 million listed as reserves. Of course this number is idiotic, as I mentioned before it counts pretty much everyone of military age who isn't actually in the military as "reserves". I shouldn't have to explain to you why that doesn't work. The ROKA has 522,000 people with 3,040,000 in reserve.

North Korea also has 3.5 million people in paramilitary organizations, which obviously overlaps with the "reserve" figure as they just don't have the population for it to be otherwise.

So it's 2,255,000 on the Chinese side vs 1,628,000 for a unified Korea. Korea does have an initial advantage in reserves, though exactly how much is questionable as we don't have any realistic numbers for the north, but it will be 6 months to a year at the most before China's massive population advantage cancels it out, even if we accept the inflated 8 million figure for the North.

For the Navy, I really don't feel like listing the scores of patrol boats and midget subs the Koreas have. Both Koreas have impressive littoral combat capability. Suffice it to say they could stop a Chinese attempt to duplicate Inchon. China likewise has littoral capabilities to render a Korean amphibious assault out of the question. The real question is their blue water capabilities. In that department, China has 26 destroyers and 57 frigates. South Korea has 11 destroyers and 9 frigates. I am not counting North Korean forces there because the state of their blue water navy can be summed up as "lol no." Now 2 of those South Korean destroyers are AEGIS equipped, so they'll give an excellent accounting, but they're just too badly outnumbered.

That's just their surface fleet though. How about submarines you ask? China has 4 nuclear ballistic missile subs, 6 nuclear attack subs, and 44 non-nuclear attack subs. North Korea has 20 non-nuclear attack subs, the same type as the oldest in China's fleet. South Korea has 12 non-nuclear attack subs. If you wish you can add another 40 subs for North Korea that aren't large enough to be considered a proper attack sub, but are none the less too big to be considered a midget sub. I consider them a littoral asset not a blue water asset though.


Why just count their blue water capabilities you ask? Because it's what will ultimately decide the war. I'm sure you've heard of the Strait of Malacca, correct? Guess where most of the oil East Asian nations use is shipped through. The side that controls the Strait controls the war. Unless the US sides with Korea, unlikely considering they just invaded a sovereign nation in order to grab territory, an act that has historically lead to the US stopping its support, or Japan sides with Korea, something they are constitutionally forbidden to act on unless attacked, there is no way Korea can gain control of the strait.

Now, you also keep saying nuclear. The problem there is China has over 200 nuclear warheads, many of which are carried on ballistic missile subs. Korea has good reason to not want things to go that way, so they won't strike first. China can win this conventionally, so they won't strike first. They'd be a non factor, yet at the same time constantly hanging over the conflict.

Also, I like how you're claiming China can't deploy forces there, they don't have the logistics, while at the same time claiming this unified Korea of yours can invade, as if invading a foreign nation was less of a logistical strain than deploying forces in your own country. I'd also once again point out that China doesn't have to stop the invasion at the border. They can deploy a screening force to slow a Korean advance until they can form a proper defensive line, and wait for their manpower advantage to kick in.

Quote:
So? What you think does not make me the way you believe.
If you didn't advocate it, you wouldn't even mention something that no sane leader would support. Korea can't beat China. This is not a position you can argue. Look at the industrial output of both nations for starters. Also how much of that Korean industry depends on raw material from China? This is worse than Japan attacking the US in WWII, and we all know how that went.

I'll say this again. No nation on Earth can successfully invade China in a conventional war. The US can't. Russia can't. India can't. Your dream unified Korea can't.
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