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Old 2010-12-15, 09:43   Link #10641
ganbaru
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Video Captures Man Confronting School Board Before Shooting
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/201...e-shooting/?hp
Quote:
With news cameras rolling, a 56-year-old gunman entered a school board meeting in Florida on Tuesday and took several members of the board hostage, then fatally shot himself during a shootout with a security guard.

The episode was captured on video and broadcast on WMBB.com News 13 in Panama City, which ran several clips of the incident, including one in which the gunman fires a shot at a board member.

One extended clip shows the man, identified as Clay A. Duke, calmly walk up to a podium at the front of the room with a pistol after painting a mysterious red encircled “V” on the wall.

As people watched in shock and panic, the man ordered everyone to exit the room “except these clowns behind the counter here,” gesturing to several members of the board. He then engaged in an argument with board members, complaining that the school board “fired my wife,” later saying, “We’re broke.” After the board members tried to talk him down – engaging in a discussion about local taxes – he then opened fire on the superintendent, Bill Husfelt, but missed.

Moments later, a security guard entered the room and engaged in a shootout with Mr. Duke, hitting him at least once. Wounded, Mr. Duke turned the gun on himself and took his own life, the police said.

Ginger Littleton, a school board member, told The Associated Press that as the man held his gun out she tried to create a diversion by striking him with her purse, an encounter also captured on the video. Ms. Littleton said she fell to the ground and the gunman turned and aimed at her, but didn’t pull the trigger.

According to Florida state prison records, Mr. Duke has an extensive criminal record. He was charged in 1999 with aggravated stalking, shooting or throwing a missile into a building or vehicle, and obstructing justice. He was convicted and sentenced to five years in prison on each charge, and was later placed under community supervision.
Another glorious moment for the second amendment...
( expecting the commnet like '' but if one hostage had a gun...'' in 3 , 2 , 1... ).
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Old 2010-12-15, 11:16   Link #10642
iLney
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If you banned something that many desire, the only thing you did was just creating a black market for it.

What with the mentality "if we cannot regulate it, we will ban it"?
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Old 2010-12-15, 11:31   Link #10643
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iLney View Post
If you banned something that many desire, the only thing you did was just creating a black market for it.

What with the mentality "if we cannot regulate it, we will ban it"?
I am not for a banning but why allowing any morons to get their hand on them ?

You can't use legaly a car witout a driver's licence, no ?
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Old 2010-12-15, 12:04   Link #10644
MrTerrorist
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Talk about broken promises.
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Old 2010-12-15, 12:10   Link #10645
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
I am not for a banning but why allowing any morons to get their hand on them ?

You can't use legaly a car witout a driver's licence, no ?
And that would stop someone from using a car How?

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktl...tory?track=rss

Read that article. Then read this fact. It is almost impossible to carry a firearm legally in the state of California. 99.99999% of people who apply will get turned down, unless they are in law enforcement. So the people involved in that strip mall shooting, were illegally carrying firearms, and a mother was killed.

What exactly does this have to do with the 2nd Amendment? When the honest citizen is not allowed to defend themselves, evil criminals are able to act with impunity.

Washington D.C. was the homicide capital of America until recently, and it's had one of the strictest gun control laws anywhere.

Gun control laws ALWAYS benefit the criminals.
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Old 2010-12-15, 12:18   Link #10646
Dorfl
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Secret Santa spreads joy, disbelief in Kansas City.
Quote:
KANSAS CITY, Mo. – Secret Santa II hit the streets Tuesday in a long-standing Kansas City tradition of handing out $100 bills — sometimes several at a time — to unsuspecting strangers in thrift stores, food pantries and shelters.

Some people gasped in surprise. Some wanted to know if the $100 bill the tall man in the red cap offered was fake. Others wept.
Sweet story, except for the part where they plan to use the money to buy Christmas gifts! I can think of a hundred better uses for $100 you sorely need than buying gifts for your kids, seriously.
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Old 2010-12-15, 12:37   Link #10647
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorfl View Post
Secret Santa spreads joy, disbelief in Kansas City.


Sweet story, except for the part where they plan to use the money to buy Christmas gifts! I can think of a hundred better uses for $100 you sorely need than buying gifts for your kids, seriously.
Like what?
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Old 2010-12-15, 13:20   Link #10648
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorfl View Post
Secret Santa spreads joy, disbelief in Kansas City.


Sweet story, except for the part where they plan to use the money to buy Christmas gifts! I can think of a hundred better uses for $100 you sorely need than buying gifts for your kids, seriously.
Don't be ridiculous. There's NOTHING more important stimulating the prostrate of the American Economy with your money.
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Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
I want to have Jon Stewarts babies.
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Old 2010-12-15, 13:57   Link #10649
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
And that would stop someone from using a car How?

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktl...tory?track=rss

Read that article. Then read this fact. It is almost impossible to carry a firearm legally in the state of California. 99.99999% of people who apply will get turned down, unless they are in law enforcement. So the people involved in that strip mall shooting, were illegally carrying firearms, and a mother was killed.
Sorry to say this but what would be the chance than this mother would be still alive is the peoples in the barbershop weren't armed ? More gun you put in a gunfight equal too often more straw bullets than might end up killing bystanders. The bullet than killed this mother could had been shoot either by the attackers or the attackeds but the result is still the same.

You want that the peoples to have the possibility to defend themself
and so do I
, but to put a gun into the hand of everyone isn't enough; they need to be abble to use safely for them and the one around them. Any idiots might be cappable to shot a gun, but a formation might help them to use it safely.
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Old 2010-12-15, 14:16   Link #10650
Vexx
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Well... most kids *got* firearms training/discipline in the US until the mid-70s either from their parents, their scout leaders, their church group, shooting clubs, high-school shooting teams, etc. "Strangely", the violence rate was much lower.

The demonization and ignorance leads to many of the situations we see today. And of course, the warlords and thugs love a disarmed population...
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Old 2010-12-15, 14:20   Link #10651
flying ^
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least gay world cup ever

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/socce...+-+Top+Stories)

Quote:
Blatter, president of world football's governing body, said Monday in an apparently lighthearted remark that gay fans "should refrain from any sexual activities" during the tournament in Qatar, where homosexual behavior is illegal.

Juris Lavrikovs, communications director for the European branch of the International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association, said the comments were "very unfortunate and have left people deeply offended."

"I think they should come out with a strong statement and not just wash it away and hide behind it with some wishy-washy comments," Lavrikovs told the Associated Press. "We are talking about a very basic human right that is being violated."

Blatter, speaking in South Africa on Monday at the launch of a post-2010 World Cup legacy project, was asked if he could foresee any cultural problems with the tournament being held in Qatar.

"I'd say they (gay fans) should refrain from any sexual activities," he said, smiling.

"This is not a joke, this is a matter of life and death to people," Lavrikovs said. "Qatar and more than 70 other countries in the world still criminalize individuals for homosexual relationships, and some countries even punish them by death sentence.

"It's disappointing to see that an organization that is promoting the game, which in its statutes condemns discrimination of any kind, is coming out with comments like this."

Qatar beat Australia, Japan, South Korea and the United States in the FIFA vote on Dec. 2.
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Old 2010-12-15, 14:27   Link #10652
Vexx
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I'm still trying to fathom why Qatar was even in the running. The logistical issues, the construction issues, before we even *get* to the cultural land mines.
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Old 2010-12-15, 14:29   Link #10653
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I'm still trying to fathom why Qatar was even in the running. The logistical issues, the construction issues, before we even *get* to the cultural land mines.
Only one word: money.
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Old 2010-12-15, 14:38   Link #10654
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Only one word: money.
2 words

Money and Prestige
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Old 2010-12-15, 14:40   Link #10655
flying ^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
a-rab money.
fixed

oh and building new facilities shouldn't be an issue
they can just get cheap labor from africa and southeast asia
also, i know there are lots of southeast asians who want to work in countries like quatar to earn fresh a-rab money and convert it back to their local currency (and hopefully get millions of <insert southeast asian currency here>)
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Old 2010-12-15, 14:42   Link #10656
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Well... most kids *got* firearms training/discipline in the US until the mid-70s either from their parents, their scout leaders, their church group, shooting clubs, high-school shooting teams, etc. "Strangely", the violence rate was much lower.

The demonization and ignorance leads to many of the situations we see today. And of course, the warlords and thugs love a disarmed population...
But the violence rate wasn't lower. The number of murders in the US in 2009 was about the same as the number of murders in 1969 and 1970, despite there being about 100,000,000 more people in the US in 2009. The only crime where there was a significant increase is rape, which could be due to increased reporting since there's less of a tendency to dismiss it and blame the victim these days. The rate of violent crime peaked in the mid 90s and had been trending downward since.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
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Old 2010-12-15, 15:09   Link #10657
Vexx
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You're also leaving off any analysis of the total number of crimes that were thwarted by victims being armed. Using the murder-by-firearm count alone is rather simplistic analysis. For example, how does that compare with the statistical trends of murder by other means? But really, we'd be derailing the thread carrying this very far.

The best argument I've seen for the decreasing crime rate since the 90s is actually that the ones-who-tend-to-offend in large part have gotten very old behind bars due to 3-strikes type laws. Yeah, we grow more of them... but the baby boom is also over.

My wife is actually better at this discussion from her feminist perspective - a firearm gives her, a 95 pound pixie, a chance against a large opponent. Yes, she knows jiu jitsu (taught by her father) - she has no intention of letting them get that close. She's grown up with firearms, knows the safety protocols, and a fair number of her cousins (7/27) are law enforcement officers. *I* can use a club, sword, bow&arrow, etc. if guns are removed from citizens - *she* doesn't have the upper body strength.

Last I'll say on it in this thread....

Edit: on a completely different news note - this ruling by the Supreme Court has nasty ramifications for First Sale rights in the US.
editorial before ruling: http://blogs.forbes.com/danielfisher...cheap-watches/
editorial after ruling: http://blogs.forbes.com/danielfisher...ght-challenge/

Basically, it appears that the SCOTUS has let stand the notion that you can deny resale rights to any customer of your product if you produced it overseas..... o.O (Even *Forbes* thinks it is crazy)

Last edited by Vexx; 2010-12-15 at 15:38.
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Old 2010-12-15, 15:54   Link #10658
Roger Rambo
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Philosophically speaking, I actually don't have any problem with the idea of fire arms registration. In fact, a registered system where every able bodied male was required to own a military rifle converted to semi automatic and to receive mandatory firearms instruction. Of course this kind of compromise system probably isn't possible considering that the Brady campaign isn't remotely interested in sane or reasonable gun control laws. They're interested is a full ban and confiscation.


I honestly can't fathom how the Brady campaign can argue the NRA are the extremist group on their end of the spectrum. The NRA aren't the one's pushing complete libertarian gun deregulation where anybody can buy anything when ether they want.
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Old 2010-12-15, 16:12   Link #10659
Vexx
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argh... I'll treat this as a separate topic: the real problem with the NRA is unrelated to gun ownership - its that the organization has been co-opted by the interests of the extreme conservative plutocracy (I place the co-opt in the early 1990s).
It *uses* fear of gun-taking to drive the members to vote for some of the biggest douchebags in US history. Someone can be a pedo-lusting, transnational corporatist who kicks puppies, destroys jobs, and ships all our industry overseas but "golly durn he supports gun rights!!!" I can barely read the front half of the member magazine anymore its so full of nonsense (dropped my membership in the late 90s, they still send me the magazine and I assume they still pretend I'm a member).
Any discussion with NRA spokesmen and Brady group in the mix is a non-starter. They both lie through their teeth.

Personally, I'd like to see required firearms training of all citizens as part of the "citizen militia". Of course, I also think everyone with a driver's license should have to undergo an annual checkride like airplane pilots do, no one listens to me on that either
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Old 2010-12-15, 16:33   Link #10660
Ithekro
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Gun safty is knowing where to point your gun...when to point your gun, and hitting your target when needed. It is also knowing when not to use your gun.

Do I own one? No. Do I know how to use one? Yes, most definately. My first merit badge as a Boy Scout was Rifle Shooting and I impressed my Scoutmaster with my accuracy when I got my Shotgun Shooting some years later.

The right to own a gun is not the same as the right to carry a gun in public in most states. California does not allow you to carry a weapon outside in public generally speaking. However there is something to be said about Arizona laws on the subject. I don't know the exact quote, but it went something like "People will be friendlier in general if they know that being cross with you could get them a bullet for their trouble." This also spills over to things like robbery, rape, and assault. A criminal is less likely to attempt these things if he is unsure about who might be packing a legal firearm, and who might know how to use it against him. (Think the original plot for "Death Wish".) The whole risk verse reward situation.
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