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Old 2011-01-09, 22:39   Link #11281
yezhanquan
Observer/Bookman wannabe
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 29
Mein Kampf shouldn't be banned. Any history student interested in Hitler should be able to grab a copy and see for themselves Hitler's plans.
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Old 2011-01-09, 22:51   Link #11282
flying ^
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i heard mein kamp is being read by a lot of business students in india as a sort of management guide
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Old 2011-01-09, 23:05   Link #11283
ZephyrLeanne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Mein Kampf shouldn't be banned. Any history student interested in Hitler should be able to grab a copy and see for themselves Hitler's plans.
But maybe it should only be available as annotated versions.
I remember years ago in school, when we were doing Macbeth, someone said that Lady Macbeth was the most NOBLE character in the story. We were all dumbfounded, until we realised he was reading the non-annotated version.
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Old 2011-01-09, 23:22   Link #11284
yezhanquan
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Alternate Character Interpretations, much?

Still, Mein Kampf taught the world to treat any writing by a politician, no matter how crazy, as serious stuff, if they don't want horrors to be unleashed.
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Old 2011-01-09, 23:36   Link #11285
ZephyrLeanne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Alternate Character Interpretations, much?

Still, Mein Kampf taught the world to treat any writing by a politician, no matter how crazy, as serious stuff, if they don't want horrors to be unleashed.
But annotated.

Anyways,

Oldham byelection: Opinion polls point to comfortable Labour win






  • Quote:
    The Labour leader, Ed Miliband, was today breathing a sigh of relief after two polls showed his party 17 points ahead of the Liberal Democrats in the byelection in Oldham and Saddleworth that takes place on Thursday. The Conservatives are trailing badly in third place.


    David Cameron conceded today that the year ahead will be difficult, adding: "It is a year in which I'm sure people will want, from time to time, to give their politicians a good, hard kick."


    It now looks as if only a low turnout on polling day, or a late tactical switch by Tory voters to the Lib Dems, could see Labour lose the seat.


    The byelection was called after a court order said Labour's victory in the 2010 general election was invalid, when it was ruled that the Labour candidate, Phil Woolas, had knowingly told untruths in the campaign.


    A poll commissioned by the Tory peer Lord Ashcroft from Populus found Labour on 46%, Lib Dems on 29% and Conservatives on 15%, with few Tory voters saying they are likely to switch their allegiance.


    An ICM poll in the Mail on Sunday put Labour on 44%, Lib Dems on 27% and Conservatives on 18%. Nick Clegg will be relieved that he has not seen his party slip into third place, something that would be a disaster for his leadership.


    In the ICM poll, a third of those who voted Lib Dem in the 2010 general election say they will now vote Labour, a deep disappointment to the Lib Dem candidate, Elwyn Watkins, who dug deep into his own pockets to secure a court-ordered re-run.


    Watkins is running a campaign focusing on Labour "lies and shame" and has vowed to work overtime to woo Tory voters, including highlighting what he says is Labour responsibility for police cuts in the Greater Manchester area.


    Voting intentions, according to the Ashcroft poll, seem to have been driven by a general disapproval of the government's record. Some 55% disapprove of the coalition government, while 39% approve.


    The poll also shows support for the public spending cuts is qualified. By 63% to 33%, the constituency's voters agree "the public spending cuts proposed by the coalition government are necessary and unavoidable", but by 74% to 22% they say the cuts are "too quick and too deep".


    Voters are divided over whether the cuts are an excuse to dismantle the welfare state, with 47% on each side.


    By 77% to 20%, voters agree the previous government must take a large part of the blame for the cuts a view Miliband has been trying to combat by claiming the coalition is acting deceitfully by blaming Labour and not the banking crisis.


    The voters who are switching to Labour are most opposed to the cuts, with nearly two-thirds thinking the coalition is "instinctively hostile to public services" and is using the deficit as an excuse for cuts, compared with only 47% of voters overall.


    But Miliband and shadow chancellor Alan Johnson trail Cameron and his chancellor, George Osborne, by 37% to 22% when it comes to trust on the economy.


    On almost all counts fewer leaflets, fewer phone calls, fewer knocked-on doors most Oldham voters in the Ashcroft poll say the Tories have fought the least visible campaign. The finding will fuel Tory claims that Cameron has soft-pedalled to make sure the Lib Dems do not fall to third, as polls indicated they might.


    In his three-hour visit to the constituency last week, Cameron spent much of the time in a local pub having coffee with a small group from his party. Critics have claimed that the Tories should have done more to fight the campaign at the outset.


    The voters appear divided on whether the courts should have intervened in the general election result, but strongly feel that the Labour election campaign did not go further than most campaigns. The poll shows no support for the idea of a single coalition candidate. Only 77% of those intending to vote Conservative on Thursday say they would vote for a combined candidate.
    Remember, this byelection is the first since Cameron and the Con/Dems came into power. This could turn out to be a signal of approval/disapproval of Cameron - or even a vote of confidence/no confidence.

    As in, if the LibDems see that Labour is doing way better that themselves, they might break off the coalition with the Conservatives and join Labour, which essentially forces a no-confidence motion against Cameron.

    This could be serious.
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Old 2011-01-09, 23:44   Link #11286
flying ^
Senior Member
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post

More about the AZ shooting situation, or rather the fallout that may come from it.
Oh boy, here we go.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...e-free-speech/
also, check out who's working overtime...

Quote:
Washington (CNN) - Rep. Robert Brady, D-Pennsylvania, said he will introduce legislation making it a federal crime for a person to use language or symbols that could be perceived as threatening or inciting violence against a Member of Congress or federal official.

Brady's decision to offer the legislation comes less than 24 hours after a gunman attempted to assassinate Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Arizona, in a shooting that claimed the lives of a federal judge, and a nine year-old girl, among others.
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Old 2011-01-09, 23:46   Link #11287
ZephyrLeanne
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wellington, NZ
Age: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Alternate Character Interpretations, much?

Still, Mein Kampf taught the world to treat any writing by a politician, no matter how crazy, as serious stuff, if they don't want horrors to be unleashed.
Annotated, yes.

Oldham byelection: Opinion polls point to comfortable Labour win





  • Quote:
    • The Labour leader, Ed Miliband, was today breathing a sigh of relief after two polls showed his party 17 points ahead of the Liberal Democrats in the byelection in Oldham and Saddleworth that takes place on Thursday. The



      Conservatives are trailing badly in third place.
      David Cameron conceded today that the year ahead will be difficult, adding: "It is a year in which I'm sure people will want, from time to time, to give their politicians a good, hard kick."


      It now looks as if only a low turnout on polling day, or a late tactical switch by Tory voters to the Lib Dems, could see Labour lose the seat.


      The byelection was called after a court order said Labour's victory in the 2010 general election was invalid, when it was ruled that the Labour candidate, Phil Woolas, had knowingly told untruths in the campaign.


      A poll commissioned by the Tory peer Lord Ashcroft from Populus found Labour on 46%, Lib Dems on 29% and Conservatives on 15%, with few Tory voters saying they are likely to switch their allegiance.


      An ICM poll in the Mail on Sunday put Labour on 44%, Lib Dems on 27% and Conservatives on 18%. Nick Clegg will be relieved that he has not seen his party slip into third place, something that would be a disaster for his leadership.


      In the ICM poll, a third of those who voted Lib Dem in the 2010 general election say they will now vote Labour, a deep disappointment to the Lib Dem candidate, Elwyn Watkins, who dug deep into his own pockets to secure a court-ordered re-run.


      Watkins is running a campaign focusing on Labour "lies and shame" and has vowed to work overtime to woo Tory voters, including highlighting what he says is Labour responsibility for police cuts in the Greater Manchester area.


      Voting intentions, according to the Ashcroft poll, seem to have been driven by a general disapproval of the government's record. Some 55% disapprove of the coalition government, while 39% approve.


      The poll also shows support for the public spending cuts is qualified. By 63% to 33%, the constituency's voters agree "the public spending cuts proposed by the coalition government are necessary and unavoidable", but by 74% to 22% they say the cuts are "too quick and too deep".
      Voters are divided over whether the cuts are an excuse to dismantle the welfare state, with 47% on each side.


      By 77% to 20%, voters agree the previous government must take a large part of the blame for the cuts – a view Miliband has been trying to combat by claiming the coalition is acting deceitfully by blaming Labour and not the banking crisis.


      The voters who are switching to Labour are most opposed to the cuts, with nearly two-thirds thinking the coalition is "instinctively hostile to public services" and is using the deficit as an excuse for cuts, compared with only 47% of voters overall.


      But Miliband and shadow chancellor Alan Johnson trail Cameron and his chancellor, George Osborne, by 37% to 22% when it comes to trust on the economy.


      On almost all counts – fewer leaflets, fewer phone calls, fewer knocked-on doors – most Oldham voters in the Ashcroft poll say the Tories have fought the least visible campaign. The finding will fuel Tory claims that Cameron has soft-pedalled to make sure the Lib Dems do not fall to third, as polls indicated they might.


      In his three-hour visit to the constituency last week, Cameron spent much of the time in a local pub having coffee with a small group from his party. Critics have claimed that the Tories should have done more to fight the campaign at the outset.


      The voters appear divided on whether the courts should have intervened in the general election result, but strongly feel that the Labour election campaign did not go further than most campaigns. The poll shows no support for the idea of a single coalition candidate. Only 77% of those intending to vote Conservative on Thursday say they would vote for a combined candidate.
    This by-election is the first since the Conservatives entered a joint government with the Liberal Democrats. Labour is making this a vote of confidence (or no confidence) of the government, especially after the university fees issue.

    And given that the Conservatives can't form government on their own...

    If the LibDems see that Labour does WAY better than themselves, that would cause the LibDem backbench, together with the Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Irish parties which are more pro-Labour than pro-Conservative (with a dormant coalition agreement with Labour to boot), could all join and force a vote of no confidence against Cameron, Clegg and the Conservative AND LibDem ministers.

    And put Labour into power.
    This is interesting.

    Oh and, anyone notice the Labour posters look like Chinese New Year signs? (Labour used to use a red-and-white color scheme, before the current red-and-yellow.)
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Old 2011-01-09, 23:48   Link #11288
Ithekro
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Certain History and Political Science Majors have those books as required reading. Not to gain political knowledge and fight for their ideology, but to understand where such ideology comes from and how it shaped the world.

Also, depending on the country and context...how to fight it from happening again.
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Old 2011-01-09, 23:56   Link #11289
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
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Tens of thousands rally against changes in blasphemy law
http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNew...70826520110109
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Old 2011-01-10, 01:40   Link #11290
SaintessHeart
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Alternate Character Interpretations, much?

Still, Mein Kampf taught the world to treat any writing by a politician, no matter how crazy, as serious stuff, if they don't want horrors to be unleashed.
You have to read it alongside Edward Bernay's Propaganda, or else it would be nothing more than an entire volume of rant.

Then again, it wouldn't be easy to find the unexpurgated version in libraries. There is one in e-book form though, probably the most interesting one I have read.
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2011-01-10, 02:25   Link #11291
ZephyrLeanne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
You have to read it alongside Edward Bernay's Propaganda, or else it would be nothing more than an entire volume of rant.

Then again, it wouldn't be easy to find the unexpurgated version in libraries. There is one in e-book form though, probably the most interesting one I have read.
Expurgutated or not, it still needs annotations and notes to prevent people from picking up the WRONG message.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
One advantage I would give to the Chinese in terms of advancing their technology is that they don't have to prove it works. They already know it works since they Americans or others are already using the technology. This is why their space program can move much faster than the American and Russian programs...they aren't using trial and error and exploring the unknown. They are copying past success so they can hit tech levels rapidly.
1. Test to see if system A works like Russian system A....check, good, move on.
2. Test to see if system B works like American system C....check, good, move on.
3. Test to see if system C works like Russian system F...no, okay step back.
4. Test to see if system C works like Russian system E...check, okay back on track....etc, etc....

Troubles happen because while they might know something works, they might not have all the little details to get things to work in total...such as the engines in this J-20's cases.
Problem is, they seem to think in a Cold-war mentality when it comes to tech.

Like, they assume that:

An American system A that works like a British system B or Canadian system C or Israeli system I will ALWAYS work the same as each other, or

A French system F that works like a German system G or UK system U
will not be different, or

A DDR system D that works like Russian system Ru will not have adaptations.

Thing is, all systems are modified, even slightly to fit the needs of the customer...
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Last edited by Daniel E.; 2011-01-10 at 04:32. Reason: The edit button is your friend.
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Old 2011-01-10, 03:17   Link #11292
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
Then those are the issues that need to be addressed, without violating the rights of citizens of the united states.
Rights are what the people as a whole agree they are. They're subject to change.



Quote:
JAMA did a study on the effectiveness of the Brady Law a few years back.
http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/284/5/585.full

They determined that the only positive effect was that men 55 years or older were less likely to use a firearm for suicide.
The general decline in homicide rate had already begun prior to 1985 and were downtrending without any new gun control laws.
Thus the effect of the Brady law on crime was nil.
Therefore, why do we as US citizens still have to go through the Brady background check if its effect on preventing criminals from acquiring guns is nil?
The study also factored in secondary sales by non-FFL holders, which only adds to the fact that all gun control laws are useless due to the sheer number of firearms in private hands.
In Colorado, and other states, laws have been enacted that require all private sales to go through a licensed gun-dealer.
Do people obey these laws?




No you can't.
That kind of slippery slope argument is illogical because murder requires an action against another person and you should know better than to compare owning a gun to committing murder.
Stop with the logical fallacies already.
How is it a fallacy? I'm making the point that "laws that aren't universally obeyed are useless and shouldn't exist" isn't a very good argument. The content of the law in question doesn't matter.


Quote:
The point was that France actually exceeded the US in overall crime per capita in 2002, even though it has only 1/8th the homicides of the US.
But then again, France doesn't exactly have the gang culture of the United States either.
My point is simple, gun control doesn't deter violent crime, nor does it prevent murder.
Therefore, in a country with a protected right to bear arms, how can any gun control law be justified?
It's not like it even helps stop violent crime, it simply has no effect.
France is more violent, but has eight times fewer violent deaths. I can totally see that as an incentive to get more guns in the situation.

Quote:
No actually violent crime is in decline overall.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/12/20/...ics/index.html
I meant in France. You know, the example you brought up?
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Old 2011-01-10, 07:55   Link #11293
killer3000ad
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Westboro Baptist Church to picket Tuscon victims' funerals
Oh no, the trolls have crawled out of their hole-of-a-lavatory for more attention.
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Old 2011-01-10, 08:43   Link #11294
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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This was a little news item scrolling across my newsfeed that had me going, "Really??? We may have ADM, Monsanto, and now DuPont controlling most of our food supply?"
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70909U20110110
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Old 2011-01-10, 11:15   Link #11295
MrTerrorist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post
Westboro Baptist Church to picket Tuscon victims' funerals
Oh no, the trolls have crawled out of their hole-of-a-lavatory for more attention.
This looks like the job of the Patriot Riders. Let see if those trolls try to picket a funeral protected by a group of bikers.
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Old 2011-01-10, 12:37   Link #11296
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer3000ad View Post
Westboro Baptist Church to picket Tuscon victims' funerals
Oh no, the trolls have crawled out of their hole-of-a-lavatory for more attention.
they are just doing for the publicity, if you ignore them and keep them off the front page they will go away when no on eis paying attention to them.
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Old 2011-01-10, 12:43   Link #11297
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
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China defense chief says military hardware drive no threat
http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNew...7090Z620110110
Not sure it's the opinion of everyone...
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Old 2011-01-10, 12:48   Link #11298
GundamFan0083
Senior Member
 
 
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Location: classified
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Rights are what the people as a whole agree they are. They're subject to change.
Anh_Minh, I'll just let the father of the 9 year old girl that was killed explain why gun control doesn't work.
Even in this extremely painful moment, he understands that more restrictions will do nothing to save anyone else.
He also hit on the meat of the matter.
We need better mental health care in this country, and I agree with him.




In other news:

The slaying of the Portugease journalist in New York just gets more bizarre and grusome.
A corkscrew? Really? That's just nasty.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...sts_model.html

This other story was just a WTF moment for me.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...3_she_met.html
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Old 2011-01-10, 13:21   Link #11299
MrTerrorist
Takao Tsundere Cruiser
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Spain's Basque separatists Eta call 'permanent truce'

How many times they keep saying this?
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Old 2011-01-10, 13:28   Link #11300
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
Anh_Minh, I'll just let the father of the 9 year old girl that was killed explain why gun control doesn't work.
Appeal to... what? Emotion? Authority? Didn't listen to much of it. Spoken English's hard enough when it's not spoken by somebody who's crying.

Quote:
Even in this extremely painful moment, he understands that more restrictions will do nothing to save anyone else.
He also hit on the meat of the matter.
We need better mental health care in this country, and I agree with him.
Red herring. It's not one or the other.
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