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Old 2011-01-24, 15:30   Link #11581
Ithekro
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One needs influence if one is not using military power.
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Old 2011-01-24, 16:00   Link #11582
Decagon
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I guess "Made in China" breeds too much resentment to fill that role.
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Old 2011-01-24, 17:18   Link #11583
MakubeX2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flying ^ View Post
so your saying they need to have a powerful and globally recognized household name/brand before you recognize 'em as one of the superpowers?
Not really, just something to spread the unique culture and indirectly contributing back to the country's economy.
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Old 2011-01-24, 18:52   Link #11584
germanturkey
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is it horrible i thought of the Call of Duty level when i first heard about that this morning?
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Old 2011-01-24, 21:01   Link #11585
MrTerrorist
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China stealth fighter 'copied parts from downed US jet'
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Old 2011-01-24, 21:06   Link #11586
Ithekro
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"Copied" from a F-117? Okay...then why does to look more like an F-22?

On the other hand the F-117 is 1980s US technology.
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Old 2011-01-24, 21:19   Link #11587
Simon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
"Copied" from a F-117? Okay...then why does to look more like an F-22?

On the other hand the F-117 is 1980s US technology.
1970s, actually - the design phase was pretty much complete by the start of 1980. As for the lack of resemblance, it might be that they copied small but important details rather than the overall structure (and in stealth, small details are important). Apparently the main reason for the F-117's faceted design compared to the F-22's smooth curves was a lack of computing power to do the radar cross-section simulations: the theory had been known for years but it was a massive challenge to apply it.

It's fair to say computing power is no longer an issue for China.
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Old 2011-01-24, 21:26   Link #11588
Ithekro
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So they are playing catchup with 30+ year old technology and using in on 15+ year old style aircraft. The only advantage they have is that they don't have to prove it works...since the United States and others have already proven that much.

Of course the F-35 is 10 year old techology...sort of.
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Old 2011-01-24, 21:42   Link #11589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
So they are playing catchup with 30+ year old technology and using in on 15+ year old style aircraft.
That seems to be the consensus in the open media, yeah.

Quote:
The only advantage they have is that they don't have to prove it works...since the United States and others have already proven that much.
China's pretty good at taking established tech and turning out home-grown copies, so you're right, they'll probably make faster progress than when the US was inventing it from scratch. But this is a whole lot more complex than manufacturing DVD players...

Quote:
Of course the F-35 is 10 year old techology...sort of.
The F-22 dates back to the mid-80s, although it's undergone a lot of change over its development. Interestingly the F-117 program has become a textbook example of how to deliver a high-tech weapon system, while the F-22's torturous and politicised development is almost the opposite. Makes you wonder how much political interference Chinese designers face: "don't worry comrade, it's fine if the J-20 isn't ready to fly when Secretary Gates visits... there's plenty of room in the labour camps."
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Old 2011-01-24, 21:49   Link #11590
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The F-117 is also an example of how to keep an aircraft a secret. There was no public knowledge of the thing until around 1988 if I recall, where the F-22 and F-35 have been know about since their prototype competition days.

That and the F-117 is now "retired" of US service
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Old 2011-01-24, 22:30   Link #11591
Simon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
The F-117 is also an example of how to keep an aircraft a secret.
I strongly believe that a healthy democracy keeps good oversight of its military, but the lesson here does seem to be "the fewer politicians who know about a program, the more chance it will deliver on time".

Apparently the security requirements caused Lockheed massive headaches: I've read that after long negotiations with the Air Force they got permission for some less-sensitive components to be built outside the Skunk Works, but they had to invent a whole fictitious part-numbering scheme because the real part numbers were classified.
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Old 2011-01-24, 22:36   Link #11592
ganbaru
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Peru recognizes Palestinian state
http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNew...70N5ZW20110124
Another one, not sure if it's really helping at something.
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Old 2011-01-24, 23:27   Link #11593
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Stealth technology hasn't evolved much since the 1980s and 1990s. Neither does military avionics so there is actually little improvement in the current state of stealth technology around the world.

The next time any of you go to a military airshow, take pictures of the jets with IR cameras with a high zoom and resolution (parts of it, the main focus is the aircraft surface), at close range. Then analyse the photographs closely...you'd be surprised that the external structures didn't change much.
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Old 2011-01-25, 00:32   Link #11594
flying ^
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- J-20
- F-35
- some Russia/India joint fighter program

the future export market for top tier low-observable multirole fighter aircraft looks interesting
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Old 2011-01-25, 01:18   Link #11595
germanturkey
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it makes me so sad that they discontinued the Raptor for the Joint Strike Fighter. granted, they fulfill different roles, but the raptor is THE air superiority fighter.
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Old 2011-01-25, 01:22   Link #11596
SaintessHeart
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Suicide bomber hits Russian airport

I pity the Dagestan civilians. They are going to die a horrible death now : Putin won't take this lightly.
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Old 2011-01-25, 03:02   Link #11597
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
China's pretty good at taking established tech and turning out home-grown copies, so you're right, they'll probably make faster progress than when the US was inventing it from scratch. But this is a whole lot more complex than manufacturing DVD players...
They copy the tech very thoroughly, even the mistakes. The chinese market is known for having high demands at low costs. The products must have features that are top notch (basically like in the west but a lot cheaper). The downside to this is, that you cannot use quality components to build the final products. So reliability and quality is an issue. You get what you pay for. And China may be good at assembling stuff, but they are still lacking behind in lots of core technologies that enable them to produce components of high quality at low prices.
My point is, copying is not equal to innovation. Inventing something from scratch provides a lot more inside knowledge than merely copying tech.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Suicide bomber hits Russian airport

I pity the Dagestan civilians. They are going to die a horrible death now : Putin won't take this lightly.
I think someone posted this already one page before.
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Old 2011-01-25, 03:03   Link #11598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Suicide bomber hits Russian airport

I pity the Dagestan civilians. They are going to die a horrible death now : Putin won't take this lightly.
Long gone the days of Joseph Stalin, it wouldn't had never happened in his day.
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Old 2011-01-25, 04:13   Link #11599
SSIlanya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Suicide bomber hits Russian airport

I pity the Dagestan civilians. They are going to die a horrible death now : Putin won't take this lightly.
They reap the wind now they will sow the whirlwind.

Don't think there will be a war but...hoping the Russian soldiers are treated better in the performance of the duty and after their duty/
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Old 2011-01-25, 05:01   Link #11600
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
They copy the tech very thoroughly, even the mistakes. The chinese market is known for having high demands at low costs. The products must have features that are top notch (basically like in the west but a lot cheaper). The downside to this is, that you cannot use quality components to build the final products. So reliability and quality is an issue. You get what you pay for. And China may be good at assembling stuff, but they are still lacking behind in lots of core technologies that enable them to produce components of high quality at low prices.
My point is, copying is not equal to innovation. Inventing something from scratch provides a lot more inside knowledge than merely copying tech.
There are quite a number of countries who are willing to do anything to catch up technologically and even cut corners when rebuilding stuff from scratch.

Lets take a look at my country for example. Militarily, we copied :

1. The Steyr AUG + Tavor + SA80 and built it into the SAR-21. A crappy assault rifle which was designed to look "cool-looking" by adding a laser aiming device and a kevlar cheekplate, but it made the rifle a whole lot bulkier that many soldiers preferred the ancient Colt Commandos US gave us after Vietnam.

2. ST Kinetics CPW - a direct ripoff of the H&K MP7 redesigned to fire 9mm, 4.6 and 5.7 mm rounds. They added a slide-out buttstock which WILL BEND and even break after many rounds of automatic fire (physics of force transfer down a straight line, but towards different material strength).

3. Terrex AFV - We copied the US Stryker and added a more powerful engine. The next most brilliant thing is that it has never been combat tested, neither does the designer give a shit about something called inertia.

4. Bronco ATC - Take two M113 APCs, chain them together, and cut up the front part to put in window panels. Then sell it to the British.

And the only thing that is copied from scratch, or built properly, are the FN MAG GPMG and the Formidable class frigates. And I am sure there is some cheapskate budgeting involved...these stuff are supposed to be worth much more of our GDP.

Like how the nuts who bought the Leopard tanks without asking for the air-conditioners.....and the crews simply roasted inside until a high-ranking officer takes notice a couple of years later. Then they spin a huge story of how it was an "upgrade" when none of the procurement team ever thought of being in a tank before.

He's right, copying is not equal to innovation. Funny how new agencies often spin stories about it when it is not so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSIlanya View Post
They reap the wind now they will sow the whirlwind.

Don't think there will be a war but...hoping the Russian soldiers are treated better in the performance of the duty and after their duty/
The OMON will wax villages just to get a terrorist, be him/her a leader or a mere pawn. It simply breeds more contempt for the Russians....an eye for an eye will make everyone blind.

Not that there is anything pretty to see in the Belarus region these days other than that MILF spy the FBI caught last year......
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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