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Old 2011-02-01, 12:42   Link #11761
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZephyrLeanne View Post
Remember, the US asked for it, by interfering in other nations' affairs. Like Korea, Vietnam, etc. The only substantial thing they did in recent times was to nuke Japan.
Yes, I mean it's not like the Korean war was approved by the UN in response to North Korea invading the south. Clearly a Soviet sponsored invasion that resulted in US troops there on occupation duty getting killed was a completely internal matter to the Koreas. Vietnam, can't really argue with. The US could have avoided the war and gotten the entire country in their camp if they had backed Ho Chi Ming when he approached the US for aid against France. Of course the US was never going to back him against France any more than the US was going to back Argentina against Britain in the Falklands war. But nothing else? Did you miss Iraq invading Kuwait in 1990? Or was that in internal affair too?
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Old 2011-02-01, 13:43   Link #11762
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Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
i'm sure Bloombag will welcome Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio to come to NY and enforce AZ-style immigration laws.

like this

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Old 2011-02-01, 15:43   Link #11763
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Apparently, this is the House GOP majority's idea of "job creation" and "budget responsibility" --- redefining rape so that women are basically toast:

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/w...ape/index.html

House Bill H.R. 3 redefines rape so that women basically have to die resisting, and apparently the authors have never heard of ectopic pregnancies as well. House Speaker Boehner supports this bill and named it a top priority ... which is a real blast of misogyny.

Quote:
Those who were raped while drugged or unconscious, or through means of coercion, would not be covered. Survivors of statutory rape would not be covered: "if a minor," one is only covered in case of incest. And if one is a survivor of incest, and not a minor, that's also not covered. Studies of how rapists find and subdue victims reveal that about 70 percent of rapes wouldn't fall under the "forcible" designation.
I don't know... does one draw from this that these people hate the women in their lives??? Or that they secretly relish the sort of patriarchy that assaults/stones/honorkills women in some parts of the third world?
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Old 2011-02-01, 15:58   Link #11764
0utf0xZer0
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You know, sometimes there are situations where its not possible to adequately convey rage in a posting. This is one of those times.
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Old 2011-02-01, 16:12   Link #11765
Asuras
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Looks like your speech worked, Mubarak.
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Old 2011-02-01, 16:51   Link #11766
SeijiSensei
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The Republican position on abortion is pretty far removed from that of the general public. Though I can't seem to find figures on the "rape and incest" exclusion more recent than 2003 or so, about three out of four American adults support the right to abortion in those circumstances.

Overall anti-abortion attitudes have increased slightly in the past couple of years, but still only about one in five Americans would agree with the standard Gallup option of abortion being "illegal in all circumstances."

That's why I wrote earlier that this effort is nothing but a sop to the most extreme elements in the Republican party. Of course, the voters with the more extreme attitudes are the ones most likely to vote for and donate to Republican candidates.
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Old 2011-02-01, 16:54   Link #11767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
You know, sometimes there are situations where its not possible to adequately convey rage in a posting. This is one of those times.
I wish than it would be just rage ...
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Old 2011-02-01, 17:02   Link #11768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
You know, sometimes there are situations where its not possible to adequately convey rage in a posting. This is one of those times.
Seconded.

I just... I just cannot get into their thinking. I mean... How... Why... What...Ugh.
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Old 2011-02-01, 17:25   Link #11769
Ithekro
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Abortion tends to be an absolutist topic. I've had to run it through political science courses several times. Rape was actually the only place there was even a chance of compromise, and that was grudgingly dependent on what those against abortion considered the worse evil. To the extreme the loss of any baby is a crime beyond all crimes. One that even not doing something about it will cause you damanation (or more accurately the belief that if the wife gets one even without her husbands knowledge, he too is doomed to eternal damnation as well as she is) I blame the Catholic Church first, then the line just get longer and longer as you add more too it.

Rape is considered a terrible crime, but to those opposing abortion, the crime of the mother (and father) does not transfer to the child, and thus they are unwilling to kill said child for something their parents did. (citing religious notions that every child is a gift from God usually) Or at least that's what I recall the argument being when we went round and round on this topic in high school.

I've generally decided it is something the Federal government shouldn't have a say in.
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Old 2011-02-01, 17:31   Link #11770
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicoX View Post
I just cannot get into their thinking.
You can't? It's quite simple, really.

Step 1) Flood congress with bullshit bills.
Step 2) Senate or Obama kills the bills.
Step 3) 2012 comes around, republicans claim democrats have 2/3rds of the law making process, and nothing got passed. Blame the lack of anything getting passed for the economy and unemployment rate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Rape is considered a terrible crime, but to those opposing abortion, the crime of the mother (and father) does not transfer to the child, and thus they are unwilling to kill said child for something their parents did. (citing religious notions that every child is a gift from God usually) Or at least that's what I recall the argument being when we went round and round on this topic in high school.

I've generally decided it is something the Federal government shouldn't have a say in.
And then they refuse to put more funding into orphanages, meaning the child is screwed either way. They're either left with a mother who hates them because of what they're a constant reminder of, or they're left in a horribly underfunded orphanage.
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Old 2011-02-01, 17:42   Link #11771
0utf0xZer0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Rape is considered a terrible crime, but to those opposing abortion, the crime of the mother (and father) does not transfer to the child, and thus they are unwilling to kill said child for something their parents did. (citing religious notions that every child is a gift from God usually) Or at least that's what I recall the argument being when we went round and round on this topic in high school.
But see, people who follow that principle through to the logical conclusion would ban all abortion regardless of circumstances. Which is something I'd object too, but I don't find the reasoning behind it ultra offensive in and off itself.

But this idiot is proposing abortion after a rape be illegal with an exemption only for forcible rape, which is based on a highly misogynistic conception of rape. In other words, the only compromise he was willing to make actually made his position way more offensive. I'm actually kind of in awe of how he was able to pull that off.
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Last edited by 0utf0xZer0; 2011-02-01 at 18:18.
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Old 2011-02-01, 17:47   Link #11772
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
And then they refuse to put more funding into orphanages, meaning the child is screwed either way. They're either left with a mother who hates them because of what they're a constant reminder of, or they're left in a horribly underfunded orphanage.
[sarcasm]Well, if you fight so vehemently for the unborn life, you will exhaust all your good will on it. There simply is no good will left for the life that is born then. Or maybe this is stone cold calculation. They know this law will never pass. Hence, it is good for:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei
That's why I wrote earlier that this effort is nothing but a sop to the most extreme elements in the Republican party. Of course, the voters with the more extreme attitudes are the ones most likely to vote for and donate to Republican candidates.
[/sarcasm]

... that reminds me to plus rep someone (I hope it works, typically my rep spreading is not diverse enough) ^^' meh I knew it... SeijiSensei, sorry, maybe another time
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Old 2011-02-01, 17:49   Link #11773
Ithekro
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Who ever said extremists (well intentioned, religious, or whatever) were logical?
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Old 2011-02-01, 17:52   Link #11774
Metaler
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...-arrested.html

This city's a perfect symbol of Brazil. God, I wanna leave this fucking place.
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Old 2011-02-01, 17:55   Link #11775
Jjo
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My personal opinion, abortion should be left for actual victims of incest, or rape. Seeing as if they were without choice, they shouldn't be left to deal with some monsters offspring they would hate anyways. I know I would hate the kid, and I know I'd probably be so bitter if abortion was illegal altogether that I'd keep the kid, and make sure the kid knew I hated it every single day of their life.


Outside of that....sorry but if you are grown enough to make a kid, you should be grown enough to deal with your situation. Whether that means adoption or taking care of your kid. Why people think they are mature enough to have sex, and not deal with the always possible outcomes (an STD, or kid) is beyond me.
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Old 2011-02-01, 18:07   Link #11776
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
But see, people who follow that principle through to the logical conclusion would ban all abortion regardless of circumstances. Which is something I'd object too, but I don't find the reasoning behind it ultra offensive in and off itself.

But this idiot is proposing that rape be illegal with an exemption only for forcible rape, which is based on a highly misogynistic conception of rape. In other words, the only compromise he was willing to make actually made his position way more offensive. I'm actually kind of in awe of how he was able to pull that off.
I think you meant "legal". And no, that's not what he's proposing (yet!). So far, he's only attacking abortion and its funding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Abortion tends to be an absolutist topic. I've had to run it through political science courses several times. Rape was actually the only place there was even a chance of compromise, and that was grudgingly dependent on what those against abortion considered the worse evil.
Which is something I've always found highly hypocritical. When it comes to the health of the mother, I could see some room for compromise there. It'd be basically the old dilemma of sacrificing an innocent to save another.

But rape? The pro-lifers' argument rests on the assumption that embryos and fetuses are full human beings. Well and good. But why would rape or incest change that? What about the actual children born of rape? Is it alright to kill them on a whim?

Quote:
To the extreme the loss of any baby is a crime beyond all crimes. One that even not doing something about it will cause you damanation (or more accurately the belief that if the wife gets one even without her husbands knowledge, he too is doomed to eternal damnation as well as she is) I blame the Catholic Church first, then the line just get longer and longer as you add more too it.

Rape is considered a terrible crime, but to those opposing abortion, the crime of the mother (and father) does not transfer to the child, and thus they are unwilling to kill said child for something their parents did. (citing religious notions that every child is a gift from God usually) Or at least that's what I recall the argument being when we went round and round on this topic in high school.
Good. I may not share their position on abortion, religion and the status of fetuses, but I can at least acknowledge its consistency.


Quote:
I've generally decided it is something the Federal government shouldn't have a say in.
Why? How do State rights enter into it? If a fetus is to be considered a child, then shouldn't the federal government step in when states decide it's legal to kill them? Just as it should if some state decided it's alright to kill the handicapped, or illegal aliens, or homosexuals? And if it isn't - shouldn't the federal government protect women whose right to look after their own health, their own body, is infringed upon? Or the rights of doctors to exert their profession?
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Old 2011-02-01, 18:17   Link #11777
Ithekro
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This is also why the issue has never be resolved. It is far more complex than any side wishes to admit.

As for the states rights issue...I was going to just say governement but as a blanket term could have been pushed onto any country as well...thus limting my option to the Fedral government since it appears to be too large with too many different types of people to come to a satisfatory conclusion for the given number of people, seeing how heated the topic becomes from past experiance. State level laws wouldn't be much better, but their constituant base is far smaller than at the Federal level. The complexity of the issue (with all the different things pointed out about doctors practices, women's health, and legality of what is a human child) make it diffiuclt to regulate. This also causes issues with other laws being broken in support for one side or the other causing politicians to make a stand in order to enforce other laws.

Basically it is too complex for government to handle in the United States. In a sane world, the issue of abortion would be deturmined by the persons it effects. However we don't live in a sane world it seems..nor can people agree on who abortion effects.
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Last edited by Ithekro; 2011-02-01 at 18:28.
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Old 2011-02-01, 18:20   Link #11778
0utf0xZer0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I think you meant "legal". And no, that's not what he's proposing (yet!). So far, he's only attacking abortion and its funding.
Oops... actually, I meant that he thinks abortion after a rape should be illegal unless it forcible rape. Fixed the original.
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Old 2011-02-01, 19:41   Link #11779
GundamFan0083
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This one is for flying ^.

http://www.argusleader.com/article/2...tizens-buy-gun

Also, with regard to the Bloombag probes into private gun sales, the Arizona Attorney General has a bit to say about it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110201/...rg_gun_control
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Old 2011-02-02, 02:39   Link #11780
Afternoon Tea
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okay soo the MidWest got hit by a HUGE Blizzard, I recorded it



According to statistics, the largest Illinois snowfall on record occurred Jan. 30-31, 1982 when a St. Louis storm dumped 25 inches on the city of Greenville.
Twenty-three inches of snow fell during the Chicago Blizzard of 1967, stranding thousands in the city and surrounding suburbs. More than 45,000 cars were abandoned while about 750 city buses were stuck on streets and expressways.
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