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Old 2011-03-17, 19:14   Link #12501
Ithekro
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I'm feel much better about the situation if Lebennon, Egypt, Tunisia, and other local militaries were leading the enforcement of the No Fly Zone, backed up by France, Italy, and Britian. Only having the United States as a reserve if things go badly and to defend in case of retaliation in the Mediterranean Sea.
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Old 2011-03-17, 20:45   Link #12502
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamui4356 View Post
You realize of course the government didn't just become big for the hell of it, right? The government expanded out of necessity. Apart from waste and fraud, there isn't much that can really be cut these days, except the military if you want to strip the country's power projection capability and go with a force just sufficient for protecting the homeland. Of course that could lead to huge international problems.

Also, if I may over simplify things for a moment, the current debt comes from 3 major sources, the Bush tax cuts, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and economic stimulus programs. Cutting things isn't going to deal with that. At best you're talking a tiny fraction of the federal budget being reduced with these cuts. Remember that when Bush took office, we had a budget surplus. Under those conditions a tax cut, while a bit short sighted, isn't the worst thing in the world. However, keeping federal taxes at their lowest levels post WWII while fighting two wars was foolish at best. The wars and stimulus represent money already spent though. Cutting things isn't going to get it back. The correct solution is to take in more revenue. Of course this should wait until the economy has recovered a bit more, but a modest tax hike is going to be necessary to balance the budget. Not that a balanced budget is the end all, be all for governments.
Stopping the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan would only be a fraction of the total debt that America is going through year in and year out.

http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPa...ontentId=16625

We spend more on Medicaid a year, than both wars together during the same time frame. The U.S. Government NEEDS to get smaller. We are, right now, running a 1.3+ trillion dollar deficit a year. That's debt in one year, that is more than the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan COMBINED since 2001. You can't just blame the wars, Government itself has grown exponentially in the past few years(Both Republicans and Democrats are to blame for this).

Also the budget surplus, was a myth. We did not have a real surplus during the Clinton era.

http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16

http://activerain.com/blogsview/8553...act-or-Fiction

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...surpluses.html

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-183667
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Old 2011-03-17, 21:21   Link #12503
valet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Why? I don't believe people whose policies led to the disaster are credible much when they can't do basic math and they refuse to put most of the budget on the table -- which makes fluff moves like this just stupid. They're cutting tools for saving the middle class or creating a larger middle class (e.g. -> Pell Grants, Head-Start, information channels, etc) and pretty much just kowtowing to the plutocrat 400 who have raped the economy and nearly destroyed the community which allowed them to thrive.
Well, I don't have a satisfying explanation for it, but you probably don't need me to tell you why they're doing it. It's a pretty obvious token gesture for the Palin/Beck right. The midterms took the wind out of the tea party sails by sating their political blood lust from the '08 thrashing, but if the GOP is going to carry any of that momentum into 2012 (which they'll almost certainly have to do to win the White House) they've got to keep the tea party base active with empty symbols like this and the HCR repeal vote. The absolute biggest threat to their 2012 bid is an ambivalent turnout on the right akin to what the Democrats experienced at the midterms, and left alone, that's exactly what would happen. None of what they're doing right now accomplishes anything, and most people must realize that deep down, but the center right will be happy to give them a pass on it and the far right eats it up like candy. That's 100% the formula they need for the next year and a half. I'm betting it'll be the NEA next. They just love to hate it so much.
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Old 2011-03-17, 22:15   Link #12504
Vexx
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The New York Times is going to try a paywall:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/18/bu...a/18times.html

Its almost a reasonable fee ($15/month) but it will be interesting to see if it works. You will be able to view 20 articles a month (though it isn't clear how that enforcement works yet or if it does).
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Old 2011-03-17, 23:33   Link #12505
GundamFan0083
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US Cost of Living Hits Record, Passing Pre-Crisis High

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42130406

I agree with John Melloy, "somthing's gotta give."
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Old 2011-03-17, 23:44   Link #12506
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
US Cost of Living Hits Record, Passing Pre-Crisis High

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42130406

I agree with John Melloy, "somthing's gotta give."
I don't think this really means much of anything.
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Old 2011-03-17, 23:53   Link #12507
GundamFan0083
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It means that with the cost of everything going higher, Americans will have less disposable cash and thus less money to buy goods and services.

That means less tax revenue, and thus mandatory cuts in government spending.
With the economic disruption due to the earthquake in Japan, and the very likely rise in oil prices due to the emerging conflagration in Libya, necessities like food and fuel will go up even further over the next few months.
Thus further lowering the standard of living, and again causing a decrease in tax revenues for State and local governments.
Then there's the threat of hyperinflation due to all the spending/borrowing by the Federal government...etc....you get the picture.
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Old 2011-03-18, 01:53   Link #12508
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I'm feel much better about the situation if Lebennon, Egypt, Tunisia, and other local militaries were leading the enforcement of the No Fly Zone, backed up by France, Italy, and Britian. Only having the United States as a reserve if things go badly and to defend in case of retaliation in the Mediterranean Sea.
if intervention is actually required, then western intervention is actually the only real way to go about it.

Lebanon and Tunisia have no real air force to speak of.
Egypt has its own internal problems to deal with.
and the Saudis are already involved in Bahrain' and would have to fly their fighters over Egypt anyway (which i doubt would go well).
the only other country in range to lend a hand is Israel, and asking Israel to basically attack Libya is probably the best way to stop the Libyan civil war.
at the cost of starting the new "Israel-Libya war" which i doubt would improve matters.
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Old 2011-03-18, 08:17   Link #12509
ganbaru
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Germany may boost Afghan role and free U.S. for Libya
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...72H2M920110318
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Old 2011-03-18, 09:36   Link #12510
sneaker
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As if increasing some awacs crew numbers would really make a difference for the U.S.. Typical German bullshit.
Gaddafi announced a few days ago that he is very disappointed in the western countries and future oil will only go to China, Russia and India - but he might consider making an exception for Germany, as they had taken a "very good position towards him".
Reminds me of Switzerland bowing down to him last year.
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Old 2011-03-18, 11:01   Link #12511
AnimeFan188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Stopping the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan would only be a fraction of the total debt that America is going through year in and year out.

http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPa...ontentId=16625

We spend more on Medicaid a year, than both wars together during the same time frame. The U.S. Government NEEDS to get smaller. We are, right now, running a 1.3+ trillion dollar deficit a year. That's debt in one year, that is more than the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan COMBINED since 2001. You can't just blame the wars, Government itself has grown exponentially in the past few years(Both Republicans and Democrats are to blame for this).

Also the budget surplus, was a myth. We did not have a real surplus during the Clinton era.

http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16

http://activerain.com/blogsview/8553...act-or-Fiction

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...surpluses.html

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-183667
United States federal spending, with healthcare and defense broken out:

http://tigerhawk.blogspot.com/2011/0...ding-with.html

"A federal magistrate said Sony may subpoena the PayPal account of PlayStation
3 hacker George Hotz, as the gamemaker ratchets up its civil lawsuit against the
man who released the first full-fledged PS3 jailbreak in the console’s four-year
history.

Tuesday’s order came two weeks after Magistrate Joseph Spero in San Francisco
granted Sony the right to acquire the internet IP addresses of anybody who had
visited Hotz’s website from January of 2009 onward. Sony has also won
subpoenas for data from YouTube and Google, as well as Twitter account data
linked to Hotz, who goes by the handle GeoHot."

See:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...hacker-paypal/

Last edited by james0246; 2011-03-18 at 14:08. Reason: double post...
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Old 2011-03-18, 11:42   Link #12512
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimeFan188 View Post
United States federal spending, with healthcare and defense broken out:

http://tigerhawk.blogspot.com/2011/0...ding-with.html
So how does that compare with tax revenues and tax rates? - broken out by income brackets per capita.

For some actual perspective, the information should go back to 1950 as well... http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php
This table lacks some depth and detail but its easy to see some issues between revenue and budget -- revenue hasn't "dropped" so much as it was intentionally closed down.

The problem lies on both ends... we're spending unwisely (poor bang for buck in some sectors) and revenue sources historically available are not only being ignored but we're repeating the conditions of the 1890s and 1920s.
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Old 2011-03-18, 12:45   Link #12513
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker View Post
As if increasing some awacs crew numbers would really make a difference for the U.S.. Typical German bullshit.
Gaddafi announced a few days ago that he is very disappointed in the western countries and future oil will only go to China, Russia and India - but he might consider making an exception for Germany, as they had taken a "very good position towards him".
Reminds me of Switzerland bowing down to him last year.
he is just asking to be taken out isn't he?
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Old 2011-03-18, 12:58   Link #12514
Roger Rambo
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China is apparently such an important market that the United States can't even afford to wage fictional war against them.


Spoiler for Article:
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Old 2011-03-18, 13:07   Link #12515
Ithekro
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I wonder if any Chinese nationals would have liked it to have stayed as it was. Getting to see American under their feet (even if being viewed at the bad guy from the American point of view) might appeal to them.
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Old 2011-03-18, 13:34   Link #12516
Tom Bombadil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I wonder if any Chinese nationals would have liked it to have stayed as it was. Getting to see American under their feet (even if being viewed at the bad guy from the American point of view) might appeal to them.
while being depicted with every bias and stereotype as there is? I'd say no. I don't even know why this is in the news section. Sounds more like odd-story.
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Old 2011-03-18, 13:58   Link #12517
Vexx
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What's rather hilarious is MGM even thinking a B movie like this has any legs outside of the US.
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Old 2011-03-18, 16:21   Link #12518
FatPianoBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
What's rather hilarious is MGM even thinking a B movie like this has any legs outside of the US.
The Garfield movies made tons of money in China, which raises more questions than it answers.
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Old 2011-03-18, 16:39   Link #12519
Kamui4356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Stopping the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan would only be a fraction of the total debt that America is going through year in and year out.

http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPa...ontentId=16625
Medicaid was funded though, until funding for it was cut thanks to the bush tax cuts. Blaming it for the debt is like blaming your electric bill for personal debt when you're running up your credit cards on stupid shit you don't need(the wars) then ask your boss for a pay cut because you think you're earning too much money(the tax cuts).

Quote:
We spend more on Medicaid a year, than both wars together during the same time frame. The U.S. Government NEEDS to get smaller. We are, right now, running a 1.3+ trillion dollar deficit a year. That's debt in one year, that is more than the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan COMBINED since 2001. You can't just blame the wars, Government itself has grown exponentially in the past few years(Both Republicans and Democrats are to blame for this).
Did you even read my post? I specifically said the 3, as in 2 more than 1, main sources of debt are the wars, the bush tax cuts, and the stimulus. This is of course correct, if a bit over simplified. Oh, wait you did read it, but decided to attack a strawman instead. Good job, you're really winning the war on straw.

Yeah, see linking to partisan blogs and people who don't know what they're talking about doesn't prove your point. A surplus means the government was taking in more revenues than they were spending. If the surplus is less than the interest on the debt though, the debt will still go up. If the surplus is used to buy more debt, the debt will still go up.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec...e_federal.html

Also, if you actually read those articles you linked, the last two are completely worthless. They're just regurgitating things the writers don't understand, and put forth nothing that isn't presented in the first article. I suspect you just included them because more sources makes it appear you have a stronger position and the "CNN" link is supposed to make it appear to be a source from a news agency. However, it's a CNN ireport, which can be written by anyone, note the not vetted identifier. In fact, it links to your first article. The second, the guy apparently works in finances so he should know perfectly well what he's claiming is incorrect. The first one does seem like it has some substance. However, it's really the very smoke and mirrors he accuses the CBO of using. A careful reading of it though will show exactly what he's pulling and where the surplus went.

"Notice that while the public debt went down in each of those four years, the intragovernmental holdings went up each year"

"The Social Security Administration is legally required to take all its surpluses and buy U.S. Government securities, and the U.S. Government readily sells those securities--which automatically and immediately becomes intragovernmental holdings."

So there was a surplus, which was used to pay off debt. However, it became debt itself in the process of transferring it to other government agencies because social security was separate from the rest of the budget. However, that's debt between departments of the government. It can't be ignored completely, but it's not the same as public debt, like debt going to China. The public debt, the part that really matters here, which was payed down under Clinton, a fact that the article does not try to dispute, only work around with the aforementioned smoke and mirrors.

Also, all of this was known at the time, and wasn't a secret. In fact, it was one of the key platforms of Al Gore's 2000 presidential run. The "lock box" he was mocked for on SNL at the time would have ended that practice, making social security funds untouchable by the rest of the government. Granted, lock box probably wasn't the best term to use as an analogy for it.
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Old 2011-03-18, 16:55   Link #12520
Ithekro
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I seem to remember a debate on if the IRS is legal or even constitutional. Don't remember what the outcome of the debate was though.
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