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Old 2011-03-19, 16:41   Link #12541
bladeofdarkness
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Which is TOTALLY why Obama isn't sending a bunch of trigger happy Gyrenes into the Med ahead of schedule.
no.
he's just firing over a hundred cruise missiles apparently.
Quote:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03...itary-vehicle/
U.S. Begins Military Assault on Qaddafi Targets in Libya
The Pentagon says 112 Tomahawk cruise missiles have been launched from U.S. and British ships in the Mediterranean, hitting more than 20 Libyan targets along the Mediterranean coastline.
could someone please explain to me why the U.S, or indeed ANY of the western nations getting involved in Libya ?
do they actually know who they are supporting, or are they still talking about the abstract concept of "Protesters" ?
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Old 2011-03-19, 16:45   Link #12542
Haak
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I thought it was because Gaddafi is an insane nut that's killing his own people just because they dared to peacefully protest against his regime.
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Old 2011-03-19, 16:45   Link #12543
JC...
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I hope none of the Rafales get shot down... what would happen to the pilot if they ejected into the hostile zone... surely it'd take a while for support to come and rescue them.

Edit: They'd probably be picked up by a helicopter from one of the nearby ships.
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Old 2011-03-19, 16:48   Link #12544
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker View Post
As if increasing some awacs crew numbers would really make a difference for the U.S.. Typical German bullshit.
Gaddafi announced a few days ago that he is very disappointed in the western countries and future oil will only go to China, Russia and India - but he might consider making an exception for Germany, as they had taken a "very good position towards him".
Reminds me of Switzerland bowing down to him last year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
could someone please explain to me why the U.S, or indeed ANY of the western nations getting involved in Libya ?
do they actually know who they are supporting, or are they still talking about the abstract concept of "Protesters" ?
thats why.
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Old 2011-03-19, 16:52   Link #12545
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
I thought it was because Gaddafi is an insane nut that's killing his own people just because they dared to peacefully protest against his regime.
that doesn't sound right.
since when does the west care about an Arab dictator acting like an Arab dictator ?
when has that ever provoked an armed response from the west ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
thats why.
that DOES make more sense, but not much more.
so the U.S, France, whatever know who they are opposing.
do they actually know who they SUPPORT ?
is there a clear leadership in place that would replace Gaddafi should he be overthrown, and who is likely to support western interests ?
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Old 2011-03-19, 16:56   Link #12546
Haak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
that doesn't sound right.
since when does the west care about an Arab dictator acting like an Arab dictator ?
when has that ever provoked an armed response from the west ?
Well it's happening now isn't it?
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Old 2011-03-19, 17:02   Link #12547
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Well it's happening now isn't it? And if there is a hidden motive then that answers your question about why they're there.
thats whats so baffling about this whole thing.
why now ?
why would they decide to take this stance NOW, when the entire middle east is on the verge of going through the same thing as Libya is ?
you have protests in Yemen, Syria, Bahrain, etc, and they are ALL being put down using violence.
in Bahrain's case, the Dictator actually called on outside forces (Saudi, and UAE armed forces) to hell crush the protesters.

does this mean the west is now going to do the same thing in those countries as well ?
is this now the new official policy ?
and if not, how do they justify acting against Libya, and not attacking say... Bahrain, or Syria.

it just doesn't make any damn sense.
if Libya was an isolated case, then it would make more sense to act (like in Yugoslavia or Kuwait).
but when the entire arab would is a powder keg, why play with fire ?
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Old 2011-03-19, 17:04   Link #12548
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
thats whats so baffling about this whole thing.
why now ?
why would they decide to take this stance NOW, when the entire middle east is on the verge of going through the same thing as Libya is ?
you have protests in Yemen, Syria, Bahrain, etc, and they are ALL being put down using violence.
in Bahrain's case, the Dictator actually called on outside forces (Saudi, and UAE armed forces) to hell crush the protesters.

does this mean the west is now going to do the same thing in those countries as well ?
and if not, how do they justify acting against Libya, and not attacking say... Bahrain, or Syria.

it just doesn't make any damn sense.
they didn't act before because they actually the rebels got enough to stand up to gaddifi. I don't think they thought gaddafi was that tough. so now that the rebels are being driven back and gaddifi actually something stupid regarding oil. the powers that be decided to do something about it.
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Old 2011-03-19, 17:07   Link #12549
Haak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
thats whats so baffling about this whole thing.
why now ?
why would they decide to take this stance NOW, when the entire middle east is on the verge of going through the same thing as Libya is ?
you have protests in Yemen, Syria, Bahrain, etc, and they are ALL being put down using violence.
in Bahrain's case, the Dictator actually called on outside forces (Saudi, and UAE armed forces) to hell crush the protesters.

does this mean the west is now going to do the same thing in those countries as well ?
is this now the new official policy ?
and if not, how do they justify acting against Libya, and not attacking say... Bahrain, or Syria.

it just doesn't make any damn sense.
if Libya was an isolated case, then it would make more sense to act (like in Yugoslavia or Kuwait).
but when the entire arab would is a powder keg, why play with fire ?
Maybe they're following the policy of 'one at a time'?
(Though to be fair they're not following that precisely either )
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Old 2011-03-19, 17:07   Link #12550
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
they didn't act before because they actually the rebels got enough to stand up to gaddifi. I don't think they thought gaddafi was that tough. so now that the rebels are being driven back and gaddifi actually something stupid regarding oil. the powers that be decided to do something about it.
that might be the REAL reason for it, but its not the official reason for it.
and naming the official reason as "intervention to protect the protesters" is going to come back and bite them in the ass when the same thing starts happening everywhere ELSE in the middle east, and they don't act there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Maybe they're following the policy of 'one at a time'.
(Though to be fair they're not following that precisely either )
does that imply they plan on doing MORE of this lunacy ?
i hope not.
one Iraq is bad enough.
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Old 2011-03-19, 17:08   Link #12551
GundamFan0083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
thats whats so baffling about this whole thing.
why now ?
why would they decide to take this stance NOW, when the entire middle east is on the verge of going through the same thing as Libya is ?
you have protests in Yemen, Syria, Bahrain, etc, and they are ALL being put down using violence.
in Bahrain's case, the Dictator actually called on outside forces (Saudi, and UAE armed forces) to hell crush the protesters.

does this mean the west is now going to do the same thing in those countries as well ?
is this now the new official policy ?
and if not, how do they justify acting against Libya, and not attacking say... Bahrain, or Syria.

it just doesn't make any damn sense.
if Libya was an isolated case, then it would make more sense to act (like in Yugoslavia or Kuwait).
but when the entire arab would is a powder keg, why play with fire ?
I don't know the answers to any of the "whys" in this situation either Blade, but Hugo Chavez has been saying we're going to invade for a few weeks now and Castro was saying this back in February.

Maybe those two socialist leaders know something we don't.
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Old 2011-03-19, 17:16   Link #12552
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
that might be the REAL reason for it, but its not the official reason for it.
and naming the official reason as "intervention to protect the protesters" is going to come back and bite them in the ass when the same thing starts happening everywhere ELSE in the middle east, and they don't act there.
Why would it? It wouldn't be the first time we've intervened somewhere and ignored a similar situation elsewhere. And who's going to do the biting? At worst, we'll get a few protests... if Bahrein or wherever can get the popular support here. Oh, and the rebels there may have a few unkind words for us, too. Are we supposed to care?

Though I suppose if they look like they might win, we'll hurry and make friends with them. Support their push for freedom, democracy, and hard boiled eggs.
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Old 2011-03-19, 17:26   Link #12553
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Why would it? It wouldn't be the first time we've intervened somewhere and ignored a similar situation elsewhere. And who's going to do the biting? At worst, we'll get a few protests... if Bahrein or wherever can get the popular support here. Oh, and the rebels there may have a few unkind words for us, too. Are we supposed to care?

Though I suppose if they look like they might win, we'll hurry and make friends with them. Support their push for freedom, democracy, and hard boiled eggs.
i doubt they'll get Democracy when this is over, and i don't think there will be much freedom lying around.
but they might just get their hard boiled eggs at the end of the day

and so begins the struggle for "Truth, Justice, Freedom, Reasonably Priced Love, and a Hard-Boiled Egg!"
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Old 2011-03-19, 17:55   Link #12554
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
i doubt they'll get Democracy when this is over, and i don't think there will be much freedom lying around.
but they might just get their hard boiled eggs at the end of the day

and so begins the struggle for "Truth, Justice, Freedom, Low Cost Oil, and a Hard-Boiled Egg!"
corrected that for you.
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Old 2011-03-19, 18:31   Link #12555
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
corrected that for you.
well... low-cost for the middlemen -- I doubt the end-users will see much change.
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Old 2011-03-19, 18:49   Link #12556
FatPianoBoy
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Didn't the National Transitional Council specifically request Western military assistance?
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Old 2011-03-19, 20:18   Link #12557
Dhomochevsky
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I am so happy Gaddafi still likes us...
Well, the thing is, we still have special laws in Germany, for when it is ok to use military and when it's not. The gov did manage do argue around them in the past on several occasions, but it usually means trouble with the press.
Currently the gov is under a lot of pressure because of the nuclear crisis in Japan (sensible topic around here). So I guess they got scared.
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Old 2011-03-19, 20:55   Link #12558
Xellos-_^
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Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky View Post
I am so happy Gaddafi still likes us...
Well, the thing is, we still have special laws in Germany, for when it is ok to use military and when it's not. The gov did manage do argue around them in the past on several occasions, but it usually means trouble with the press.
Currently the gov is under a lot of pressure because of the nuclear crisis in Japan (sensible topic around here). So I guess they got scared.
as any American can tell you there is not better distraction form domestic trouble then nice foreign somewhere far away.
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Old 2011-03-19, 23:06   Link #12559
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Old 2011-03-19, 23:35   Link #12560
flying ^
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hmmmm something's odd about this date

Obama
3/19/11

Today we are part of a broad coalition. We are answering the calls of a threatened people. And we are acting in the interests of the United States and the world.

Bush (Dubya)
3/19/03:

American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger.
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